Method 1,4 butanediol megathread

[Arak]

This appears to be a fairly new and mostly untested method for the purpose of committing suicide.

In my view, there are two relevant ways to look at this:

- the theory about how it all works
- real world data and other practical considerations

1,4 butanediol is supposed to convert to GHB, which would exert the intended effects.

 

[creationisdeath]

If we're honest we won't know until someone tests and livestreams the event. Even if a newspaper should report of such a case it's highly unlikely they'll mention how nice the death was..

 

[Jenna]

I just ordered it and would like to know too.

 

[Arak]

Basic theory:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GABAB_receptor and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GABAA_receptor

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GHB_receptor

'The function of the GHB receptor appears to be quite different from that of the GABAB receptor. It shares no sequence homology with GABAB, and administration of mixed GHB/GABAB receptor agonists along with a selective GABAB antagonist or selective agonists for the GHB receptor which are not agonists at GABAB, do not produce a sedative effect, instead causing a stimulant effect followed by convulsions at higher doses, thought to be mediated through increased Na+/K+ current and increased release of dopamine and glutamate.[4][5][6][7][8][9]'

Sources tend to suggest that it acts on the GABAB and GHB receptor. The exact mechanism of action may be unknown. GHB on the GHB receptor alone would be stimulating, even proconvulsant.
If only the effect on GABAB were revevant, would it not be comparable to an overdose of baclofen ?

A few articles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462042/

The karger article (see below) 'GHB acts mainly via a bidirectional effect on GABAB receptors (GABABR; subunits GABAB1 and GABAB2), depending on the subunit of the GIRK (G-protein-dependent ion inwardly rectifying potassium) channel involved, and an indirect effect of the cortical and limbic inputs outside the nucleus accumbens. GHB also activates a specific GHB receptor and β1-subunits of α4-GABAAR. Reversing this complex interaction of neurobiological mechanisms by the abrupt cessation of GHB use results in a withdrawal syndrome with a diversity of symptoms of different intensity, depending on the pattern of GHB abuse. Conclusion: The GHB withdrawal symptoms cannot be related to a single mechanism or neurological pathway, which implies that different medication combinations are needed for treatment'

That's more complicated. A complicated article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390814003037
I'm not sure what to make of the two GABAB subunits.

But it appears to act on GABAB, GHB, and alpha4gamma1 of GABAA.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462042/
https://www.karger.com/article/fulltext/443173
https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/4.1GHBcritical_review.pdf
https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01440

A bluelight question, about the difference between baclofen (GABAB agonist) and GHB: 'Both are used to provide restful sleep for those with narcolepsy, but individuals often find that one works well, while the other does not. Subjectively, they feel quite different.'

It appears death is caused by respiratory depression, usually caused by depression of activity in the brain stem.

 

[Arak]

Pratical considerations: legality, transporation, storage, purchase, taste. Taking an antiemetic (metoclopramide) in advance. GHB on its own or as part of a drug combo. Duration till death (being found). Suffering.

 

[Arak]

Real world data about lethality.

We have to keep in mind that reported fatalities do not say much about the lethality of the substance. People die of all sorts of things all the time. Killing yourself on purpose and with near 100 % certainty is harder.

Animal data. Consider the species, and what kind of numbers are used. LD50 or ldlo ? Then, how does it work in humans ?

 

[Arak]

Lethality of GHB.

https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/5GHBPreReview.pdf?ua=1.

But humans ?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8565872_Comparison_of_acute_lethal_toxicity_of_commonly_abused_psychoactive_substances/download

https://web.cgu.edu/faculty/gabler/J.%20Psychoactive%20PDF.pdf


https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/scientific-discussion/xyrem-epar-scientific-discussion_en.pdf

Source, not English, run through google translate , medical
'
Depending on the dose, GHB use leads to unconsciousness, nausea, vomiting, aggressive behavior, confusion, incoherent speech, ataxia, slow heartbeat, hypothermia, random clonic movements, faecal incontinence, hallucinations, memory loss, apnea, coma and respiratory depression [Chin et al 1998 ; Li et al. 1998b; Li et al. 1998a]. Loss of short-term memory and muscle weakness are associated with oral doses of about 10 mg / kg GHB [Chin et al. 1998]. An oral dose of 20-30 mg / kg promotes REM sleep [Mamelak et al. 1986; Palatini et al. 1993]. An oral dose of 65 mg / kg (5 grams) gives sedation followed by a comatose state of 1-4 or more hours within 5 minutes [Mamelak et al. 1986], after which the user / patient suddenly wakes up. The same dose can cause muscle weakness, slow heartbeat, nausea, vomiting, random clonic movements of the face and extremities and Cheyne-Stokes respiration [Chin et al. 1998; Labor 1964]. However, the respiratory center remained sensitive to elevated carbon dioxide concentrations, GHB does not produce epileptiform changes in the EEG (no epileptic cramps); GHB seems to inhibit chemically induced cramps [Laborit 1964]. In rodents and in one small human study, it was observed that GHB stimulates the release of growth hormone, but weight loss or increased muscle growth by GHB has never been demonstrated [Cameron 2001; Li et al. 1998a]. In rats, the (intraperitoneal) lethal dose giving 50% mortality due to respiratory depression (LD50) was 1.7 g / kg [Laborit 1964].'

From me, for now.

 

[Arak]

Previous GHB megathread (closed):

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/butanediol-megathread.10074/

 

[sif]

This appears to be a fairly new and mostly untested method for the purpose of committing suicide.

In my view, there are two relevant ways to look at this:

- the theory about how it all works
- real world data and other practical considerations

1,4 butenadiol is supposed to convert to GHB, which would exert the intended effects.

Good way to start the thread with criteria you want to cover

 

[sif]

Lethality of GHB.

https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/5GHBPreReview.pdf?ua=1.

But humans ?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8565872_Comparison_of_acute_lethal_toxicity_of_commonly_abused_psychoactive_substances/download

https://web.cgu.edu/faculty/gabler/J.%20Psychoactive%20PDF.pdf


https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/scientific-discussion/xyrem-epar-scientific-discussion_en.pdf

Source, not English, run through google translate , medical
'
Depending on the dose, GHB use leads to unconsciousness, nausea, vomiting, aggressive behavior, confusion, incoherent speech, ataxia, slow heartbeat, hypothermia, random clonic movements, faecal incontinence, hallucinations, memory loss, apnea, coma and respiratory depression [Chin et al 1998 ; Li et al. 1998b; Li et al. 1998a]. Loss of short-term memory and muscle weakness are associated with oral doses of about 10 mg / kg GHB [Chin et al. 1998]. An oral dose of 20-30 mg / kg promotes REM sleep [Mamelak et al. 1986; Palatini et al. 1993]. An oral dose of 65 mg / kg (5 grams) gives sedation followed by a comatose state of 1-4 or more hours within 5 minutes [Mamelak et al. 1986], after which the user / patient suddenly wakes up. The same dose can cause muscle weakness, slow heartbeat, nausea, vomiting, random clonic movements of the face and extremities and Cheyne-Stokes respiration [Chin et al. 1998; Labor 1964]. However, the respiratory center remained sensitive to elevated carbon dioxide concentrations, GHB does not produce epileptiform changes in the EEG (no epileptic cramps); GHB seems to inhibit chemically induced cramps [Laborit 1964]. In rodents and in one small human study, it was observed that GHB stimulates the release of growth hormone, but weight loss or increased muscle growth by GHB has never been demonstrated [Cameron 2001; Li et al. 1998a]. In rats, the (intraperitoneal) lethal dose giving 50% mortality due to respiratory depression (LD50) was 1.7 g / kg [Laborit 1964].'

From me, for now.

When posting multiple studies it might be an idea to write up and cover what you think are the most important details, such as minimum doses, anecdotal evidence of the boundaries of these doses. Tiredhorse pointed me to this method and it looks pretty good but not well documented on suicide sites should I be worried?

 

[Death.]

This method has no pain, yes?

If not it's fine I have high pain acceptable levels lol.

 

[Jadon91]

Everywhere there is written that with a high dose you will die. But what dose? It is hard to know. Then, you do not know how effective it is even if you try to overkill yourself.

 

[Arak]

@Jadon91 ,

First this. Animal studies, what kind of lethal doses are mentioned ? ldlo (lowest lethal dose), ld50, something else ? These things differ per species.

Then. The perspective. Assume that most sources that state a lethal dose for humans give a dose that is on the low end.
For this reason: people usually really don't want to die ! Recreational GHB users don't want to kill themselves. Doctors don't want to kill their patients. I'm inclined to interpret those number as 'dangerous doses', where you could get yourself seriously harmed if you took one that is higher. As a skeptic, one could see that as the 'lowest safe dose' for our purpose.
Anecotes don't mean that much either.

@Death , if it kills you (antiemetic?) probably not.

 

[Kingkelly]

So its essentially ghb? How do you order it?

I just ordered it and would like to know too.

 

[About_to_Go]

So its essentially ghb? How do you order it?

The 1,4 B gets converted into GHB by the body. You can buy it on Amazon, the seller is Indiana Chemical.

 

[Kingkelly]

The 1,4 B gets converted into GHB by the body. You can buy it on Amazon, the seller is Indiana Chemical.

Hmmm.... I dont wanna be saved lol wonder what reliability is compared to sn

 

[About_to_Go]

Hmmm.... I dont wanna be saved lol wonder what reliability is compared to sn

As the first couple of posts said, we won't know until we have data from people trying to use it to die. We can make informed guesses of what will happen but ultimately it is unknown

 

[Arak]

https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/9002506m.pdf

Toxicity Data: Oral LD50 (rat): 9690 mg/kg

 

[Firecaste]

Can someone translate the sciency wyancy into caveman for me? Thanks!

 

[ReadyasEver]

Read a lot about this in many articles. Three things I found to really consider on this method. Physical size and dosage, personal tolerance to drugs, and issues or conditions pre-existing that may have the liver somewhat compromised. I am not dissuading anyone from this method at all. In fact, it looks very promising. Hopefully there are some answers out there.

 

[nohoper]

As the first couple of posts said, we won't know until we have data from people trying to use it to die. We can make informed guesses of what will happen but ultimately it is unknown

Well someone has tried it and been kind enough to share so we wait and see.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/goodbye-freinds.10153/#post-183327

 

[PrettyReckless]

So I've been lurking for a while but was curious about the 1,4B option for ctb and ordered a bottle last week. As someone else reported, it arrived as a solid but liquified after a short time on a warm stovetop. I took a heavier-than-recreational dose and thought I'd report back here in case it is of interest to anyone.

T = 0:00 = 6:00 PM

T +0:00 Ingested about 2 ml of the 1,4 mixed in some fruit juice. Didn't really notice the taste.
T+1:00 Noticed a slight effect: not euphoric but kind of jovial and amused in a way I attribute to the stuff. Decided to add some wine to the mix.
T+1:45 Two glasses of wine is interacting with the 1,4 somehow, but I'm not experiencing what I thought I might be after having ~4ml. I'm a fairly active/fit guy around 175 lbs, but wasn't leveled like I thought I would have been after 4 ml. Decide to wait another hour or two to see if I'm missing something.
T~+3:30 Had another glass of wine, and I'm feeling it more than the 1,4. Decide, admittedly, a little recklessly, to see what kind of dose I need to doze off. Ingest a capful of the 1,4 and notice the taste this time. Like sweaty chemicals. Not the good kind.
T~+4:00 That did it. I start to feel motor skill inhibition, balance is off, and I'm horizontal on the couch trying to be very still. Felt like a heavy drunk. I was worried that I might lose control of my bladder if I passed out, so I weaved to the bathroom. Realize there that I'm definitely headed towards unconsciousness. Feeling totally sauced, I make it to bed and put myself into the recovery position in case I chunder. Out like a light.
T~+10:00 Wake up feeling kind of rough and couldn't go back to sleep. Tossed and turned until about 7:00 when I decided to get up and get some breakfast. Felt kind of like a weird hangover for the rest of the day (yesterday) but today I'm back to normal.

Not sure what it would be like to ctb with this option. I'd probably combine this with another method and try to get down a pretty heroic dose of 1,4. Given that the taste isn't horrible I don't think it would be too hard.

 

[Jadon91]

So I've been lurking for a while but was curious about the 1,4B option for ctb and ordered a bottle last week. As someone else reported, it arrived as a solid but liquified after a short time on a warm stovetop. I took a heavier-than-recreational dose and thought I'd report back here in case it is of interest to anyone.

T = 0:00 = 6:00 PM

T +0:00 Ingested about 2 ml of the 1,4 mixed in some fruit juice. Didn't really notice the taste.
T+1:00 Noticed a slight effect: not euphoric but kind of jovial and amused in a way I attribute to the stuff. Decided to add some wine to the mix.
T+1:45 Two glasses of wine is interacting with the 1,4 somehow, but I'm not experiencing what I thought I might be after having ~4ml. I'm a fairly active/fit guy around 175 lbs, but wasn't leveled like I thought I would have been after 4 ml. Decide to wait another hour or two to see if I'm missing something.
T~+3:30 Had another glass of wine, and I'm feeling it more than the 1,4. Decide, admittedly, a little recklessly, to see what kind of dose I need to doze off. Ingest a capful of the 1,4 and notice the taste this time. Like sweaty chemicals. Not the good kind.
T~+4:00 That did it. I start to feel motor skill inhibition, balance is off, and I'm horizontal on the couch trying to be very still. Felt like a heavy drunk. I was worried that I might lose control of my bladder if I passed out, so I weaved to the bathroom. Realize there that I'm definitely headed towards unconsciousness. Feeling totally sauced, I make it to bed and put myself into the recovery position in case I chunder. Out like a light.
T~+10:00 Wake up feeling kind of rough and couldn't go back to sleep. Tossed and turned until about 7:00 when I decided to get up and get some breakfast. Felt kind of like a weird hangover for the rest of the day (yesterday) but today I'm back to normal.

Not sure what it would be like to ctb with this option. I'd probably combine this with another method and try to get down a pretty heroic dose of 1,4. Given that the taste isn't horrible I don't think it would be too hard.

In summary, how many ml did you get?

 

[PrettyReckless]

I ordered an 8 oz bottle. From that bottle I'd guess I ingested between 8ml - 11ml total of the 1,4 plus about four glasses of wine.

It seems like there are a lot of individual variables that can impact how this stuff interacts with people. I mentioned I'm in decent shape, about 5' 11"/180cm tall and 175lb/79kg, but I do have a lot of experience with almost all classes of drugs, including many research chemicals/peptides and most AAS.

 

[onegoodreason]

I ordered an 8 oz bottle. From that bottle I'd guess I ingested between 8ml - 11ml total of the 1,4 plus about four glasses of wine.

It seems like there are a lot of individual variables that can impact how this stuff interacts with people. I mentioned I'm in decent shape, about 5' 11"/180cm tall and 175lb/79kg, but I do have a lot of experience with almost all classes of drugs, including many research chemicals/peptides and most AAS.

Thank you so much for your sharing your experience with this drug, PrettyReckless. I certainly appreciate your willingness to test this out, very brave. Did you purchase on Amazon? How much was it for the 8oz.? Might want to cut back on the alcohol when you use it again. Are you looking to ctb at some point. I'm presuming so or you wouldn't be here. Yes? Anyway, if this is another reliable, less expensive and less legal risk method to ctb, I think I'd rather go with the 1,4b. Thanks again.
Goodnight.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

This seems like a method I am honestly considering, so I guess I'll just add in my two cents based on what I just researched today. Apparently, L-Theanine will be useful in dealing with the unpleasant side effects of 1, 4 butanediol. That's all I can say really.
But here's the link to where I've got the info from.
https://drugs-forum.com/threads/bdo-and-theanine.256708/

 

[PrettyReckless]

Did you purchase on Amazon? How much was it for the 8oz.? Might want to cut back on the alcohol when you use it again. Are you looking to ctb at some point. I'm presuming so or you wouldn't be here. Yes?
Goodnight.

Yes, I did purchase it on Amazon. ~$47. I'm not planning to use the 1,4 recreationally, but I like having it on hand in case my first option doesn't come through (N from A).

I am planning to ctb, probably towards the end of this month depending on when I get ahold of my N. It was supposed to have shipped recently, so I'm hoping I don't have to wait the many weeks that others have. Working on wrapping up logistical stuff like an official will and unofficial DNR in case someone finds me in the meantime, then once I get my N I'm planning to take a short vacation before coming back and ctb. Fingers crossed it all works out!

 

[Xerxes]

Is there any skin reaction to it? Like irritation or just beads off like water?

 

[onegoodreason]

Is there any skin reaction to it? Like irritation or just beads off like water?

Now that's a good and interesting question. I have some skin issues (itchiness, rashes to some things). But to what substance are you referring? Just to be clear, is all. Thanks, Xerxes.

 

[RememberWhatUCameFor]

what happened to the old thread?