Hi everyone, (pls forgive me some typos, I'm on a bender that never ends lol so details are not my suit)
I've been a lurker here for a while but finally decided to make an account in response to the nyt coverage and share a real life physical resource that really gave me the opportunity to investigate my own life and that I had a positive experience with. It is outside the box of what we are traditionally exposed to regarding perceiving experience, and everyone here potentially has access to it depending on where you live. I see it mentioned in one old thread only once and frankly not presented well. THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT TREATMENT, A QUICK FIX OR AN EASY THING TO DO! I AM NOT RECOMENDING THAT ANYONE SPECIFICALLY DO THIS. This my personal story about a resource that helped me as someone who frequently contemplates ctb, nothing more
If you are curious about your own mind, as I am, or are interested in a different approach to consciousness than the tiny universe of fucking basic animal SI the capitalists force on us all endlessly, like I am, I highly recommend at least a read through of my experience :) This is not some culty advocacy thing so skip this post please if that is a concern of yours at all, its entirely about my own individual, independent, self learning away from the world of people trying to sell me shit and maybe it could help someone else
After spending a lot of time reading yalls writing I think that perhaps a somewhat shared value in this community is Equanimity—defined as "experiencing; without experiencing judgement", or "non-response to experience", or "observation without qualification", or "Acceptance of what is", or "lack of attachment to outcome", or "openness", or "beyond desire or aversivion" .... hopefully you can relate to the experience I'm reaching for beyond the board being hit with the word darts..... Also, that dictionary definition is monkey shit. lol. Please don't look that up in relation to this
I believe most of us are incredibly frustrated by our loves ones judgements that we are having the wrong experience of life and are individually flawed, that we are not rational, and that we should want to start changing our experiences. That we need to be fixed. That their insane world is the normal world
I still contemplate ctb all the time. And I used to always want to have people in my life who would just listen to me and not judge me. One day though, I realized that I wasn't totally practicing what I wanted from others, with myself—and I just got curious about that. Certainly not for everyone, and there are tons of ways to go about investigating this question of experiencing things without judging them (and lots of misdirections as well), this is just one I found that was chill, kind and not pushy or culty to outsider person like myself
I'm a total loner. When I used to want to be happy I spent all my time outside by myself because it felt more real than groups of people looking at their phones. I also don't value teachings or knowledge that carry tons of cultural weight and biases. I like Occam, water obviously flows down the steepest hill; so usually I find things that are overly complicated or are only expressible in a single culture, language, time period, or other lone frame of reference is generally bunk
What I did was cool because it is unbelievably standardized and simple. I think there are several hundred places across the world you can try it; its in most countries and it is entirely pay it forward if you want to—so its free to anyone who has interest. I was poor when I did mine and nobody pressured me for any money at all which was pleasantly refreshing though they did bring it up at the end. I'm grateful some stranger provided it for me without knowing me or caring anything about me. I got a place to sleep for free for 10 days, or as long as you want to stay most places really, if you are respectful. The guy who first learned English well enough to talk about it has been dead forever, and everyone gets the same recording of him giving a random class in the 90s or something that has been translated into nearly every language. Everyone across the world gets the exact same source material, so its not like there is anyone there actually trying to convince you of anything or invested in their ego or in being right. Its just a recording of a dead dude talking about equanimity. Its simply a mind exercise too. More like a mind iron man but very simple. Its like mental pushups—even if the description of the pushups might be confusing for some folks at first because its a very different mental objective than we are exposed to and constantly expected to regurgitate. Full disclosure, he uses the word "happiness" a lot, but he also has realized that this word does not mean what he thought it did when he first learned it. There is definitely a huge amount lost in translation if you accept the words at face value instead of just going for the metaphors and experiences.
It is literally the exact opposite of the 'happy' our relatives tell us to seek, that capitalist 'happy by definition'. In this practice our culture's happy is actual antithetical to the happiness that is discussed. happiness as equanimity. The only thing that might be approaching a 'belief' that you would be exposed to is the expression "may all beings be happy", which is code for "if we're going to wish for anything lets wish for everything simply to be accepting of its own experience without judgement". I could be wrong, but it seems to me personally to sum up my experience of being pro choice—that everyone is entitled to their own experiences and we can't be made wrong for having them. I often find myself contemplating my death at my own hand, every day now at least, and I find having some skills to watch myself in that place bring me a lot more contentment with my day to day experience of wanting to ctb
People often misunderstand that there is a 'goal' to be happy. Rather, there is an understanding that the goal of being happy is actually one of many things getting in the way of actual happiness. It is specifically anti-goal, beyond observation
Heres the deal though, it is as hard as anything can be. Even for a total loner. Everyone else complains about the silence but something tells me that isn't what would get this community lol; for me it was the sitting all day and not having distractions like drugs and sex and writing or media or literally anything. I found the silence super refreshing. Ten days without anyone selling you anything, without telling you how you should feel; about how they feel, why their feelings are the bees-knees or any other attention seeking interaction. You're separated by gender, and everyone is there to do their own thing so you just have a bunch of other random humans around you having their own completely unique experience that is just as intense and challenging (and potentially enjoyable) as yours. Everyone lets out cues though over the time and you see humans that are sometimes beyond miserable and sometimes they are gleeful—and it does not fucking matter.
Nothing at all is inherently better or worse. It just is what it is or what is not, a community having their own experience where everyone is totally ok with it. If you have a desire to learn about yourself and a wish to be less reactive around people who insist you have a specific experience, and you have some personal fortitude and are good at bearing discomfort—I would recommend it to anyone from anywhere of any walk of life. I've encountered many traditions like it but this one is easy access —though you also have to be cool to leave stuff in the middle ground and not pick a fight with it. Definitely not the place to go to try and prove that your mindset is right, it is just a way to see a different viewpoint than we are demanded to propagate everywhere by this culture. If you really love it and have nothing else going on your life you can even work in the kitchens and they will give you a job feeding people with no oooey-goooey bullshit. Pure work trade and time to learn about yourself. Its nice if you have a great experience and are worried about leaving and even beyond that they offer people to stay to readjust. I stayed for 2 extra days and it was really lovely
I liked it cause when I was in a rough spot in life and I got healthy food, a nice place to sleep, and some structure that was entirely focused on communicating "its ok to be you, you don't need to do anything else". Aside from the occasional smile or brief moment of wordless 'omg I can't believe we are both here doing this' there are some helpers who might talk to you about logistics and you can go to them for anything you need and, there's not really anything else that will intrude
I absolutely do not recommend this for anyone seriously considering or actively planing their cbt or for anyone else in intense crisis unless you are incredibly familiar with it. I can not stress this enough, this is something im putting out there for others like myself who are purely interested in stepping outside of a world of animal instincts and cultural predispositions. It is a comically simple, scientific experiment on our perception of the concept of the self with no other purpose and no potential acquisitions. If you come with more than just interest in a different view, or Earth forbid if you have some expectation of any kind of result, at all, period—you are very likely setting yourself up for a bad experience. Don't do it
I do think that if approached correctly this is a very real way to get to know yourself outside of our standard culture. Do not ask unless you want to know the answer however. Do not approach it incorrectly with any agenda. Do not pursue this to be 'happy' or to 'love oneself' or to find 'peace'. None of those things can be found there, merely an opportunity for acceptance of what is
I think it might be something that could benefit SOME people in this community, not all, because it is a structured experience of being alone. Many of us are alone for most of our lives however, so this compassionate and intentional approach to loneliness might jive with some of y'all and help you come to know yourselves better like it did for me. I'm sure some of y'all have heard of vipassana, the real site should be the first google search dhammadotorganization. If you do visit the site try and keep in mind that words like 'love, compassion, happiness' are all really stand ins for equanimity. But most English speakers struggle to understand a statement like 'caring, by not caring' or 'total acceptance through nonjudgement' so they put simpler, yet ultimately more confusing words. If it does interest you Id recommend not doing too much research of peoples personal experiences in the practice, that really muddies the waters and isn't what this is about. You can't repeat anyone else's experiences, its about your expereince and learning about how it is happening. I hope I didn't share to much, if anyone thinks I've misrepresented something please share :)
As a result of my practice I've actually been able to open up and discuss my desires regarding suicide with people who are pro-life and not feel bad about it and not leave them thinking im insane. It really helps me keep a balanced, uninvested tone in all of my conversations and not cause problems with my sharing of myself. It helps me accept my own experience and taught me a simple vocubulary to talk about suicide non judgmentally and without my own belief that I needed to protect my identity from whoever I am speaking to, or need to convince them to my view. It has helped me accept myself. I think I am many many times less likely to be 5051d, something that has always scared me, because I took the time to investigate this perspective and to slow down. I have more knowledge of myself and more confidence in my ability to address the challenges and crisis in life on my own terms and with self respect and dignity. These are simply my personal experiences with a potentially free resource. It did help me I would hope anyone who it might help could be exposed to this to investigate on their own
Thanks for forming such a great place online, glad I finally felt like I had something to say and I hope its appropriate. I wish the hypocrites would choose to see the empathy available in this community that is not available elsewhere in their world
I've been a lurker here for a while but finally decided to make an account in response to the nyt coverage and share a real life physical resource that really gave me the opportunity to investigate my own life and that I had a positive experience with. It is outside the box of what we are traditionally exposed to regarding perceiving experience, and everyone here potentially has access to it depending on where you live. I see it mentioned in one old thread only once and frankly not presented well. THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT TREATMENT, A QUICK FIX OR AN EASY THING TO DO! I AM NOT RECOMENDING THAT ANYONE SPECIFICALLY DO THIS. This my personal story about a resource that helped me as someone who frequently contemplates ctb, nothing more
If you are curious about your own mind, as I am, or are interested in a different approach to consciousness than the tiny universe of fucking basic animal SI the capitalists force on us all endlessly, like I am, I highly recommend at least a read through of my experience :) This is not some culty advocacy thing so skip this post please if that is a concern of yours at all, its entirely about my own individual, independent, self learning away from the world of people trying to sell me shit and maybe it could help someone else
After spending a lot of time reading yalls writing I think that perhaps a somewhat shared value in this community is Equanimity—defined as "experiencing; without experiencing judgement", or "non-response to experience", or "observation without qualification", or "Acceptance of what is", or "lack of attachment to outcome", or "openness", or "beyond desire or aversivion" .... hopefully you can relate to the experience I'm reaching for beyond the board being hit with the word darts..... Also, that dictionary definition is monkey shit. lol. Please don't look that up in relation to this
I believe most of us are incredibly frustrated by our loves ones judgements that we are having the wrong experience of life and are individually flawed, that we are not rational, and that we should want to start changing our experiences. That we need to be fixed. That their insane world is the normal world
I still contemplate ctb all the time. And I used to always want to have people in my life who would just listen to me and not judge me. One day though, I realized that I wasn't totally practicing what I wanted from others, with myself—and I just got curious about that. Certainly not for everyone, and there are tons of ways to go about investigating this question of experiencing things without judging them (and lots of misdirections as well), this is just one I found that was chill, kind and not pushy or culty to outsider person like myself
I'm a total loner. When I used to want to be happy I spent all my time outside by myself because it felt more real than groups of people looking at their phones. I also don't value teachings or knowledge that carry tons of cultural weight and biases. I like Occam, water obviously flows down the steepest hill; so usually I find things that are overly complicated or are only expressible in a single culture, language, time period, or other lone frame of reference is generally bunk
What I did was cool because it is unbelievably standardized and simple. I think there are several hundred places across the world you can try it; its in most countries and it is entirely pay it forward if you want to—so its free to anyone who has interest. I was poor when I did mine and nobody pressured me for any money at all which was pleasantly refreshing though they did bring it up at the end. I'm grateful some stranger provided it for me without knowing me or caring anything about me. I got a place to sleep for free for 10 days, or as long as you want to stay most places really, if you are respectful. The guy who first learned English well enough to talk about it has been dead forever, and everyone gets the same recording of him giving a random class in the 90s or something that has been translated into nearly every language. Everyone across the world gets the exact same source material, so its not like there is anyone there actually trying to convince you of anything or invested in their ego or in being right. Its just a recording of a dead dude talking about equanimity. Its simply a mind exercise too. More like a mind iron man but very simple. Its like mental pushups—even if the description of the pushups might be confusing for some folks at first because its a very different mental objective than we are exposed to and constantly expected to regurgitate. Full disclosure, he uses the word "happiness" a lot, but he also has realized that this word does not mean what he thought it did when he first learned it. There is definitely a huge amount lost in translation if you accept the words at face value instead of just going for the metaphors and experiences.
It is literally the exact opposite of the 'happy' our relatives tell us to seek, that capitalist 'happy by definition'. In this practice our culture's happy is actual antithetical to the happiness that is discussed. happiness as equanimity. The only thing that might be approaching a 'belief' that you would be exposed to is the expression "may all beings be happy", which is code for "if we're going to wish for anything lets wish for everything simply to be accepting of its own experience without judgement". I could be wrong, but it seems to me personally to sum up my experience of being pro choice—that everyone is entitled to their own experiences and we can't be made wrong for having them. I often find myself contemplating my death at my own hand, every day now at least, and I find having some skills to watch myself in that place bring me a lot more contentment with my day to day experience of wanting to ctb
People often misunderstand that there is a 'goal' to be happy. Rather, there is an understanding that the goal of being happy is actually one of many things getting in the way of actual happiness. It is specifically anti-goal, beyond observation
Heres the deal though, it is as hard as anything can be. Even for a total loner. Everyone else complains about the silence but something tells me that isn't what would get this community lol; for me it was the sitting all day and not having distractions like drugs and sex and writing or media or literally anything. I found the silence super refreshing. Ten days without anyone selling you anything, without telling you how you should feel; about how they feel, why their feelings are the bees-knees or any other attention seeking interaction. You're separated by gender, and everyone is there to do their own thing so you just have a bunch of other random humans around you having their own completely unique experience that is just as intense and challenging (and potentially enjoyable) as yours. Everyone lets out cues though over the time and you see humans that are sometimes beyond miserable and sometimes they are gleeful—and it does not fucking matter.
Nothing at all is inherently better or worse. It just is what it is or what is not, a community having their own experience where everyone is totally ok with it. If you have a desire to learn about yourself and a wish to be less reactive around people who insist you have a specific experience, and you have some personal fortitude and are good at bearing discomfort—I would recommend it to anyone from anywhere of any walk of life. I've encountered many traditions like it but this one is easy access —though you also have to be cool to leave stuff in the middle ground and not pick a fight with it. Definitely not the place to go to try and prove that your mindset is right, it is just a way to see a different viewpoint than we are demanded to propagate everywhere by this culture. If you really love it and have nothing else going on your life you can even work in the kitchens and they will give you a job feeding people with no oooey-goooey bullshit. Pure work trade and time to learn about yourself. Its nice if you have a great experience and are worried about leaving and even beyond that they offer people to stay to readjust. I stayed for 2 extra days and it was really lovely
I liked it cause when I was in a rough spot in life and I got healthy food, a nice place to sleep, and some structure that was entirely focused on communicating "its ok to be you, you don't need to do anything else". Aside from the occasional smile or brief moment of wordless 'omg I can't believe we are both here doing this' there are some helpers who might talk to you about logistics and you can go to them for anything you need and, there's not really anything else that will intrude
I absolutely do not recommend this for anyone seriously considering or actively planing their cbt or for anyone else in intense crisis unless you are incredibly familiar with it. I can not stress this enough, this is something im putting out there for others like myself who are purely interested in stepping outside of a world of animal instincts and cultural predispositions. It is a comically simple, scientific experiment on our perception of the concept of the self with no other purpose and no potential acquisitions. If you come with more than just interest in a different view, or Earth forbid if you have some expectation of any kind of result, at all, period—you are very likely setting yourself up for a bad experience. Don't do it
I do think that if approached correctly this is a very real way to get to know yourself outside of our standard culture. Do not ask unless you want to know the answer however. Do not approach it incorrectly with any agenda. Do not pursue this to be 'happy' or to 'love oneself' or to find 'peace'. None of those things can be found there, merely an opportunity for acceptance of what is
I think it might be something that could benefit SOME people in this community, not all, because it is a structured experience of being alone. Many of us are alone for most of our lives however, so this compassionate and intentional approach to loneliness might jive with some of y'all and help you come to know yourselves better like it did for me. I'm sure some of y'all have heard of vipassana, the real site should be the first google search dhammadotorganization. If you do visit the site try and keep in mind that words like 'love, compassion, happiness' are all really stand ins for equanimity. But most English speakers struggle to understand a statement like 'caring, by not caring' or 'total acceptance through nonjudgement' so they put simpler, yet ultimately more confusing words. If it does interest you Id recommend not doing too much research of peoples personal experiences in the practice, that really muddies the waters and isn't what this is about. You can't repeat anyone else's experiences, its about your expereince and learning about how it is happening. I hope I didn't share to much, if anyone thinks I've misrepresented something please share :)
As a result of my practice I've actually been able to open up and discuss my desires regarding suicide with people who are pro-life and not feel bad about it and not leave them thinking im insane. It really helps me keep a balanced, uninvested tone in all of my conversations and not cause problems with my sharing of myself. It helps me accept my own experience and taught me a simple vocubulary to talk about suicide non judgmentally and without my own belief that I needed to protect my identity from whoever I am speaking to, or need to convince them to my view. It has helped me accept myself. I think I am many many times less likely to be 5051d, something that has always scared me, because I took the time to investigate this perspective and to slow down. I have more knowledge of myself and more confidence in my ability to address the challenges and crisis in life on my own terms and with self respect and dignity. These are simply my personal experiences with a potentially free resource. It did help me I would hope anyone who it might help could be exposed to this to investigate on their own
Thanks for forming such a great place online, glad I finally felt like I had something to say and I hope its appropriate. I wish the hypocrites would choose to see the empathy available in this community that is not available elsewhere in their world
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