A Psychological Tangent

[TheLastGreySky]

So I'm sure everyone here is probably heard about the whole red pill blue pill black pill philosophical debate. I think it's stupid but I want to explain my take on psychological perspectives and narratives and why I really hate when people say they can't do something even though I at one time too related to this.
I want to explain this from a very childish perspective because of the way I talk I don't want to ramble on and branch topics.

So let's say if I write something like :
My _og is red.
You know from your understanding of the English language that I am referring to a dog.

And if I state :
What would you rather do lose or not try?
By osmosis and context clues you know the suggestion is that you should try even if you lose because the alternative is losing without trying... And this is a narrative.
Your brain uses data you already have accumulated to not only decipher new information but to also categorize it and even gauge its relevance...
Everyone chooses a narrative to believe and
we all have unconscious bias...
But the sheer self-limiting people on here do on the daily, makes me feel like this post is called for.

If you tell yourself you can't do something you either believe you actually can't, or you're choosing this label despite what it does to your mental health because it's safe and a familiar state of being.

I honestly think it's always the latter.
And I also would go so far as to say that people who bring up past experiences that reinforce that they can't do something are gaslighting themselves.

You're free to believe anything you want.
You can believe you're the Easter Bunny.
But if what you believe does not benefit your life then personally I would suggest reevaluating what you choose to believe. A lot of people disagree with logic that challenges their core beliefs... understandably so. After all, what's the relevance of being right if you lower the quality of your own life being caught in your own trap of self-awareness?
So if you understand what I'm saying here...

Why the hell would you choose to label yourselves as less than anyone else?
I mean most of us have went through childhood trauma in some way shape or form even if it wasn't what others would consider traumatic, I think most of us were belittled or bullied or disrespected by our parents at the very least. And that becomes a part of the way we self-talk.

I'm not telling you to adopt this narrative.
I'm not telling you that I know you better than your situation. But I'm going to proclaim that even if you knew all the answers, there are far too many variables and factors in play for any given situation to always win, or to always respond in time. So at the end of the day...
We are at war with ourselves, which to me that feels like an axiom. Whether or not it's self-evident...
It's "how I feel" and the reason why I'm shifting the topic to feelings is... Regardless of what preconceived notion of identity any of us has,
"I feel" that even valuing logic and intellect is a superficial and redundant value system that is no more beneficial than being heathenistic.

If you're only use for your value system is in hypothetical situations... I really don't want anything to do with it.

If you're smart - you're stupid.
Because that's how it feels.
And if you're dumb then you're able to perceive yourself as the smartest person in the room.
Because that's how it feels.

I'm not a very intelligent person.
I'm probably wrong maybe 90% of the time.
So if you're looking for something to disagree with to reinforce the security you placed in your value system... Here it is.
Here's your free chance to feel validated.

But if you actually want to make a change in your life, then I respect your every win and your every loss. If I could support you when you feel broken I definitely will.

But if you're literally going to lay on the ground and not get back up - but then keep putting yourself through the same cycles of despair,
Yeah I definitely want to kick you.
Will I? Depends who I am in that given moment.

Because I would rather you hate me
Then I would want to watch someone fall because they create an imaginary set of walls that limit them from believing in themselves.

Be weird be fun be cool be stupid be whatever... But please don't be so desperate for validation from people who can't even parallel park.
Don't shame yourself and devalue yourself because of some external stimulus that you happen to come into contact with... a left and a right isotope has its own purpose, and they are not meant to perceive the same things as goals.
(Best allegory I got right now)

I do believe control narratives hijack people's attention, but they're really unavoidable.
So why not choose one that actually encourages you? Why not make your own?
Why not be yourself and experience your life and NOT categorize yourself as fitting some label that wasn't created by the people who actually are labeled that by others?

Anyway there's my rant.
(.)(.)
v
I'd run my mouth...
But I can't run I got little legs.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do like what you wrote. I think you are right too- that we are extremely capable of limiting ourselves by the naratives we tell ourselves. And, realising that can be hugely empowering.

However- what I would point out is- people aren't only blaming themselves here. They're blaming everyone else too! The 'system' itself. Many of us believe that one way or another, we are playing a rigged and in some cases, unwinnable game.

Seeing as you brought up red pill, blue pill, black pill- for the most vehement incels- it's ALL someone else's fault and, nothing they do will change that. So- how do you convince them to try? They'll have some comeback. Some stastic that proves that most women go for taller men or, handsome men or, rich men. They'll insist that they can't improve on their looks enough to either impress a woman or earn enough to impress her. If you've ever tried talking to the more aggressive ones, you'll realise, there's no reasoning with them.

I'd say I was more of a pessimist than a catastrophist outright. But- I'll give you my example. My original hope was to climb as high as I could in my (creative) career. There have been and, would be plenty of impediments. Truthfully, I don't have the talent or skill to compete at that level. Even though I've spent years working on it! Ok- I thought- maybe not very top level but, better than where I am now.

Enter social anxiety and confidence issues, fitness, willingness to risk relocating (again.) Ok- not easy but, I'm still willing to fight the good fight. It's what I want most in the world after all...

Talk to multiple others who've done that job... 16 hour days, people falling aseep at work stations because they're so tired, people crying in the toilets, generally being treated like 'cattle'... And- my motivation's gone! Does that sound worth it? I'm not so convinced! So, I decided to try to be content as a small to medium fish in a small pond. Except, I'm not exactly content.

I think you have to be realistic about what you're asking of people. Is all this effort they're going to have to put in, going to be worth it? I probably have put quite a bit more effort into starting afresh again and again than maybe most, yet- it hasn't been worth it- in my experience. So- even against all the odds, you fight tooth and nail and end up in the same spot.

Not to say it's impossible of course and I 100% agree that you don't know unless you try. I am very much of the feeling that we have to make our own luck. Especially if we were blessed with next to none naturally.

I think 'hope' or 'need' is so important too. Such a good motivator. If people still want things then yeah- you need to accept you may need to do all you can to get them. Or- you decide to settle for less and make your mind up to be content.

Still- we're not just talking about our own mental limitations. We are having to take a glimse at reality now and then! Do you encourage a tone deaf person to pursue a career in music?

Are you so sure we all do have a fighting chance? Ok again- we have to go in with the attitude that we do. Give it our best shot. 11 rounds in and we're beaten to a pulp. Do you really expect someone to still have hope?

That's the other problem as I see it. Repeated failures/ humilitions. But let's say they get a few wins. What happens if the wins don't feel worth it? We start to believe that it isn't even worth the effort! Even if we got there. Even if we made it- would it actually make us happy? On top, how many develop mental illnesses along the way that are now hard to shake? Which could happen regardless- of course.

I don't know. I do get what you're saying. I do admire it too- to try and inject some motivation to try. Like you say, we're almost certainly doomed if we don't even try. I just think the model is more complex though. People are worrying about multiple things and some of them, sadly could be real impediments.

So ultimately, what do they have? A good chance? A medium chance? A slim chance? Are they going to be willing to try as had as they're going to need to for a slim chance?

Of course, the answer is- what choice do they have but then, really tragically, I suppose that's why some of us end up here. Not good really.

Actually, a friend of mine goes through bouts of: 'the power of a positive mindset.' They're so miserable though! Has your own 'can do' attitude always yielded results? Do you think it will ultimately lead you to a happy and fulfiled life? Presumably- that's the hope for everyone deep down. If not though- why not? But then, I know I shouldn't mock. Maybe it has helped you lots.

I hope it does help people if they can take it on and, sustain it. I suppose I do also understand the skepticism though. I find that dilema here a lot though. Is this person's situation really so hopeless? Maybe there's stuff they could still do. What if they are really debilitated though and, all I'm effectively doing is telling them they're not trying hard enough! I imagine that's pretty upsetting!

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I do like what you wrote. I think you are right too- that we are extremely capable of limiting ourselves by the naratives we tell ourselves. And, realising that can be hugely empowering.

However- what I would point out is- people aren't only blaming themselves here. They're blaming everyone else too! The 'system' itself. Many of us believe that one way or another, we are playing a rigged and in some cases, unwinnable game.

Seeing as you brought up red pill, blue pill, black pill- for the most vehement incels- it's ALL someone else's fault and, nothing they do will change that. So- how do you convince them to try? They'll have some comeback. Some stastic that proves that most women go for taller men or, handsome men or, rich men. They'll insist that they can't improve on their looks enough to either impress a woman or earn enough to impress her. If you've ever tried talking to the more aggressive ones, you'll realise, there's no reasoning with them.

I'd say I was more of a pessimist than a catastrophist outright. But- I'll give you my example. My original hope was to climb as high as I could in my (creative) career. There have been and, would be plenty of impediments. Truthfully, I don't have the talent or skill to compete at that level. Even though I've spent years working on it! Ok- I thought- maybe not very top level but, better than where I am now.

Enter social anxiety and confidence issues, fitness, willingness to risk relocating (again.) Ok- not easy but, I'm still willing to fight the good fight. It's what I want most in the world after all...

Talk to multiple others who've done that job... 16 hour days, people falling aseep at work stations because they're so tired, people crying in the toilets, generally being treated like 'cattle'... And- my motivation's gone! Does that sound worth it? I'm not so convinced! So, I decided to try to be content as a small to medium fish in a small pond. Except, I'm not exactly content.

I think you have to be realistic about what you're asking of people. Is all this effort they're going to have to put in, going to be worth it? I probably have put quite a bit more effort into starting afresh again and again than maybe most, yet- it hasn't been worth it- in my experience. So- even against all the odds, you fight tooth and nail and end up in the same spot.

Not to say it's impossible of course and I 100% agree that you don't know unless you try. I am very much of the feeling that we have to make our own luck. Especially if we were blessed with next to none naturally.

I think 'hope' or 'need' is so important too. Such a good motivator. If people still want things then yeah- you need to accept you may need to do all you can to get them. Or- you decide to settle for less and make your mind up to be content.

Still- we're not just talking about our own mental limitations. We are having to take a glimse at reality now and then! Do you encourage a tone deaf person to pursue a career in music?

Are you so sure we all do have a fighting chance? Ok again- we have to go in with the attitude that we do. Give it our best shot. 11 rounds in and we're beaten to a pulp. Do you really expect someone to still have hope?

That's the other problem as I see it. Repeated failures/ humilitions. But let's say they get a few wins. What happens if the wins don't feel worth it? We start to believe that it isn't even worth the effort! Even if we got there. Even if we made it- would it actually make us happy? On top, how many develop mental illnesses along the way that are now hard to shake? Which could happen regardless- of course.

I don't know. I do get what you're saying. I do admire it too- to try and inject some motivation to try. Like you say, we're almost certainly doomed if we don't even try. I just think the model is more complex though. People are worrying about multiple things and some of them, sadly could be real impediments.

So ultimately, what do they have? A good chance? A medium chance? A slim chance? Are they going to be willing to try as had as they're going to need to for a slim chance?

Of course, the answer is- what choice do they have but then, really tragically, I suppose that's why some of us end up here. Not good really.

Actually, a friend of mine goes through bouts of: 'the power of a positive mindset.' They're so miserable though! Has your own 'can do' attitude always yielded results? Do you think it will ultimately lead you to a happy and fulfiled life? Presumably- that's the hope for everyone deep down. If not though- why not? But then, I know I shouldn't mock. Maybe it has helped you lots.

I hope it does help people if they can take it on and, sustain it. I suppose I do also understand the skepticism though. I find that dilema here a lot though. Is this person's situation really so hopeless? Maybe there's stuff they could still do. What if they are really debilitated though and, all I'm effectively doing is telling them they're not trying hard enough! I imagine that's pretty upsetting!

I just want to clarify I'm not an optimist I'm a realist who really feels that the people who succeed succeed because of perseverance and self-belief.

However you're completely right when it comes down to every person has to analyze for themselves if the goal is worth the journey or if the goal is worth maintaining if it's something like in your situation the higher position you looked at.
And a lot of the times it isn't. Let's say you got the position; if you are having breakdowns or constant anxiety because you don't think you can maintain it even if you are able to tough it out... Is your quality of life worth it? Honestly probably not. I don't think doing something for the share validation ever is worth it.

"Not to say it's impossible of course and I 100% agree that you don't know unless you try. I am very much of the feeling that we have to make our own luck. Especially if we were blessed with next to none naturally."

Absolutely people do need to network and try from different angles whatever they're aiming for...
But in regards to what you said about a tone deaf person, there is a famous singer called Gary Numan, and I will argue that despite him breaking the Billboard charts with the song Cars... He can't sing. Bob Dylan can't sing.

Anyone can do whatever they set their mind to that does not mean it is something that will make them happy. I do think everyone should try to put themselves in a position where they are the best that they can be... But if they're in a position like yours where it sounds like the next step is not worth the misery with it, then yeah they should realistically avoid that crap at any and all costs.

I want to give an example without giving too much information, but I'm about to interview a band and the singer was originally the guitarist. So they've let their old singer back in their band like four times because of fan persistence. But he would leave every time so naturally the guitarist had to pick up vocals because they went through four other singers, at the end of the day he may not be the best singer but he is consistent... So from when he first picked up vocals in 2011 (band started in 2000) people have bashed him constantly, but recently he's finally been accepted and they're actually recording a full album with him on vocals.

My point is things gradually do get better. I personally can't imagine myself ever having the patience to go from 2011 to 2025 with constant criticism on the scale the singer in question has endured to finally have a small amount of recognition. So for most people it might not be worth it. But if you knew who the band was and how many times they had amazing singers come and go you would see that it's not a matter of just finding a new singer... It's choosing someone that will stay and after five different people, it took the guitarist saying it has to be him.