Afterlife proof?

[Lisa]

Have you ever seen a spirit? Had a communication from one? An nde? Anything that gives you a feeling that the afterlife exists? If so please share.

 

[Fylobatica]

Considering the evolutive history of our brains, that's 100% impossible

 

[Lisa]

Considering the evolutive history of our brains, that's 100% impossible

Are you saying that the very nature of evolution deems the continuity of life impossible? Isn't that backwards? Even if brains didn't survive death in the past or present, the fact that they evolve continuously would mean that in the future they would. But that's just going with your theory that our brains are what would continue to exist and not consciousness as it's own entity. It's our consciousness that continues. Not our brains.

 

[Fylobatica]

It's our consciousness that continues. Not our brains.

Consciousness cannot be supported without a brain. It's an epiphenomenon that arises from interaction of billions of simultaneously firing neurons. You can notice how frail and flickering it is after somebody gets brain ischemia or a stroke: the personality of those people derails, they turn into somebody that they're not supposed to be at all.
Also, memories and perceptions can be altered enormously with simple transcranial magnetic stimulation, Imagine what would happen to them when synapses don't work at all.

FYI, there's a nice read about this subject

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128311.800-a-brief-history-of-the-brain/

 

[Sonnenblume]

Consciousness cannot be supported without a brain. It's an epiphenomenon that arises from interaction of billions of simultaneously firing neurons. You can notice how frail and flickering it is after somebody gets brain ischemia or a stroke: the personality of those people derails, they turn into somebody that they're not supposed to be at all.
Also, memories and perceptions can be altered enormously with simple transcranial magnetic stimulation, Imagine what would happen to them when synapses don't work at all.

FYI, there's a nice read about this subject


https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128311.800-a-brief-history-of-the-brain/

I've given up. The "anything is possible, we can't say anything for certain" types aren't going to see reason. People believe what they desire, not what facts support. But good on ya for trying! :P

 

[never getting better]

Consciousness cannot be supported without a brain. It's an epiphenomenon that arises from interaction of billions of simultaneously firing neurons. You can notice how frail and flickering it is after somebody gets brain ischemia or a stroke: the personality of those people derails, they turn into somebody that they're not supposed to be at all.
Also, memories and perceptions can be altered enormously with simple transcranial magnetic stimulation, Imagine what would happen to them when synapses don't work at all.

FYI, there's a nice read about this subject

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128311.800-a-brief-history-of-the-brain/

So that's it then. When we die there is nothing and it was like before we were born.

 

[Fylobatica]

When we die there is nothing and it was like before we were born.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[never getting better]

That pretty much sums it up.

I am fine with this to be honest.

I was brought up a Christian then left religion and in the past two years I've been looking at it again. It's difficult to separate yourself from it and you keep thinking "yeah but what if?"

But I think often the most simple answer is the correct one and theories of the afterlife or consciousness moving to some other dimension never made much sense.

I would assume when you die your brain goes a bit mad and releases a load of chemicals as you pass, maybe as a way to help with everything shutting down. It's probably this that NDEs describe and explains a lot of the things people see.

 

[Fylobatica]

I am fine with this to be honest.

Me too. I try to see things as they are -- plus when they're supported by evidence (in this specific case, the phylogenesis of our brain) -- we can't do anything else than accept that we're not different from the other lifeforms that populate our planet, and we aren't as special as we think.

As for NDEs, there are plenty of factors that contribute to this phenomenon -- from hormone release (especially endorphin, in times of stress it might help feel less pain) to oxygen deprivation (it triggers hallucinations and when there's an excess of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream some might also see bright lights).

It's worthy noticing that most symptoms of NDEs can also be triggered by ketamine use. Out-of-body experiences induced by chemicals and drugs are more frequent than we imagine.

 

[never getting better]

Me too. I try to see things as they are -- plus when they're supported by evidence (in this specific case, the phylogenesis of our brain) -- we can't do anything else than accept that we're not different from the other lifeforms that populate our planet, and we aren't as special as we think.

That's true and a strong argument against the afterlife. Why would I, one of billions and billions of people, with billions of species and animals and plants, be entitled to an afterlife? Would a cat get one? What about a tree?

When you understand how insignificant each of us is in the universe it does make you question why there'd be anything after we die, especially if we accept plants and beetles and spiders just die and there is nothing.

Thanks for the replies by the way I'm enjoying reading your responses.

 

[Machonne]

I use to know someone that swears she sees dead people...but she is a little over the top. I am counting on us just being dead when life is over. Anything more would be hell.

 

[Tiredman]

I've seen some pretty spooky things so I'm more inclined to be open minded and believe theres something after rather than being totally skeptical.

One time I went to an old bookstore and in the basement they had a bunch of old furniture and out of the blue one of the rocking chairs on the other side of the room started rocking with no one near it and no wind/draft. Needless to say I never went back there lol

Another time I was little I seen a black shadow in my room wearing a top hat but it honestly could have been my imagination (it still scared the shit outta me though).

My mom has seen some weird things aswell. She told me she seen a ghost on the hill of the farm where she grew up. It supposedly looked like a native American chief. She also said she was babysitting during a blizzard one time and all of a sudden some guy walked in and sat down and watched the blank tv for a while then left and disappeared.

As for proof theres plenty of articles that 'prove or disprove' the afterlife. The problem is most of it is anecdotal so really they can't scientifically prove or disprove anything. Here's some articles supposedly proving it.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/358247345345184859/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo.../Afterlife-exists-says-top-brain-surgeon.html

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.exp...reincarnation-REAL-proof-life-after-death/amp

 

[Fylobatica]

The problem is most of it is anecdotal

The real problem is that we cannot trust 'sources' that put in the body of the report something like "super creepy footage of soul leaving a body" that actually shows nothing.

Clickbait articles to say the least

 

[Machonne]

She also said she was babysitting during a blizzard one time and all of a sudden some guy walked in and sat down and watched the blank tv for a while then left and disappeared.

That actually happened to some people but it turned out to just be the drunk down the road, went into the wrong house. The police escorted him home. Too funny.

 

[Tiredman]

As you know lack of evidence doesnt justify a conclusion. So neither of us can come out of this saying we're right or wrong unless you die and come back with some sort of proof. Any source can be biased.. that's why when they try to convince you of something in an article they usually start off with some spin off of the words 'scientist say'. There were advertisements in the fifties where 'doctors say' smoking a certain brand of cigarettes were good and look how far we've come.

 

[Sonnenblume]

There's plenty of evidence that we are just material, biological creatures. That contradicts any idea of ghosts, which has zero solid evidence. When our biology ceases to function so do we.

 

[Machonne]

As you know lack of evidence doesnt justify a conclusion. So neither of us can come out of this saying we're right or wrong unless you die and come back with some sort of proof. Any source can be biased.. that's why when they try to convince you of something in an article they usually start off with some spin off of the words 'scientist say'. There were advertisements in the fifties where 'doctors say' smoking a certain brand of cigarettes were good and look how far we've come.

That's why, when they tell me they see ghosts...I think "and maybe you're just as nutty as a fruitcake". With no proof so far, I would rather believe that. It's more logical and easier for me to accept.

 

[deflagrat]

I am not the right person to answer, as I hallucinate things even with medication. I used to think there was some sort of meaning until I realized what it was.

Anyways, thinking there is nothing after death used to work for me as an antidote to suicide, making me take more time to reflect. In the end, I feel forced to believe I don't know what happens when we die, because if I start to believe there is nothing after death I am don't think I can kill myself, it's like you are losing your only opportunity, one you are not seeing, like cryogenics or stuff like that. That's why I sort of reject people with those extreme atheist perceptions.

One thing is to say "may be", another thing is to be sure of something. I prefer not to be sure of death, whatever it ends up being.

 

[Machonne]

I am not the right person to answer, as I hallucinate things even with medication. I used to think there was some sort of meaning until I realized what it was.

Anyways, thinking there is nothing after death used to work for me as an antidote to suicide, making me take more time to reflect. In the end, I feel forced to believe I don't know what happens when we die, because if I start to believe there is nothing after death I am don't think I can kill myself, it's like you are losing your only opportunity, one you are not seeing, like cryogenics or stuff like that. That's why I sort of reject people with those extreme atheist perceptions.

One thing is to say "may be", another thing is to be sure of something. I prefer not to be sure of death, whatever it ends up being.

Nobody is sure, but I am sure hoping. lol

 

[Tiredman]

In the end I know what I saw and I'm not schizophrenic or on meds so I do believe in the paranormal. When I seen that rocking chair start moving my mom and My cousin seen it aswell so unless there was 3 ft by 3ft mini earth quake right under that chair then I'm inclined to believe it was some sort of spirit because there was no drafts or vents or open windows that could have moved it

 

[Fylobatica]

Our perceptions are the most unreliable thing ever. they're not a reasonable proof for anything.

Just a bit of hypotension can make you see black spots everywhere, I wouldn't trust my judgement without some kind of instrumentation to back up my claims

 

[Tiredman]

Our perceptions are the most unreliable thing ever. they're not a reasonable proof for anything.

Just a bit of hypotension can make you see black spots everywhere, I wouldn't trust my judgement without some kind of instrumentation to back up my claims

If it was just me seeing it then maybe I could shrug it off but it's pretty hard to discount it as a faulty perception if two other people witnessed it as well. I didn't go in there expecting it to happen but it did. I feel like even in the most unrealistic scenario where I had a seismic detector, a camera, an airflow monitor, a bunch of lasers already set up pointing at the chair with twenty of the worlds top scientists watching in that basement you'd still come up with a reason to be skeptical.

 

[Fylobatica]

If it was just me seeing it then maybe I could shrug it off but it's pretty hard to discount it as a faulty perception if two other people witnessed it as well.

Ever heard of mass hysteria?

 

[Malice1]

I'm almost certain there is nothing BUT that little bit of uncertainty is what makes me want to go through with it. Like someone else said, if i knew with 100% certainty that there was nothing i probably wouldn't suicide...or maybe i would because its N. Any other method though forget about it. The risks are not worth just drifting into nothingness.

Afterlife is unlikely for reasons that i stated in the other afterlife topic. The simulation theory seems like the only logical one aside from nothingness because it can be explained scientifically and just makes more sense than the other theories.

Ghost? Spirits? Souls? Gods? Magic? Theres a very high probability that none of those exist, especially magic.

 

[Tiredman]

Ever heard of mass hysteria?

Yup. Ever heard of testimonial evidence?

 

[Fylobatica]

Yup. Ever heard of testimonial evidence?

Mainly of its weaknesses and limited value, if compared to other types of evidence

 

[Tiredman]

Your closemindedness astounds me. You can toot your own horn all you want to make yourself feel better but like I said I know what I saw and I sure as shit wasnt suffering from mass hysteria.

 

[Fylobatica]

Your closemindedness astounds me. Y

Actually I just ask for solid proof before making extraordinary claims, but I'm not in the mood to argue.

 

[Tiredman]

Like It was impossible to predict it happening so there's no way I could've set up some fantastical scientific experiment to prove it but just because Albert Einstein wasn't there to see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Sonnenblume]

Actually I just ask for solid proof before making extraordinary claims, but I'm not in the mood to argue.

lol it's like talking to a brick wall. I just couldn't be bothered anymore after the same nonsense over and over. People can live in their irrational bubbles, it's silly at best, socially harmful at worst, but whatever.