From a rational point of view, I agree. We may be able to reason that death is what we want over other (realistically achievable) things in life.
mhm
The pro-lifers will no doubt argue that our thinking has become too negatively skewed though, via mental illnesses like depression to be safe to be relied upon.Not saying I agree with that but I imagine that is the most popular counter argument against us even being able to make a rational appraisal and come to the decision of suicide. That's something else though...
I don't wholly affirm such a proposition.
Let us say subject A is "insane", and everything they say is wrong.
But wait... what if subject A just happens to say something correct? Does the correct thing become wrong just because it came out of their own mouth? This is why I don't completely affirm this line of logic.
I
do believe intense emotions
can sometimes interfere our rational logic though. I believe it is honest of both of us to address this fact. Does this mean
all people who feel intense emotion
always make wrong decisions about
everything? Not necessarily; so I won't delve into that. Merely noting it.
It's more though, that I think a person can genuinely want to die but the fear surrounding making a suicide attempt can hold them back practically. The most usual fears being failing an attempt and the consequences of that. Experiencing pain and fear during an attempt. The aftermath it may have on loved ones and, depending on a person's beliefs, concerns about an afterlife. Plus, our instinctive sense to keep ourselves safe- SI.
I do firmly believe that a person
must account for consequences of their decision, while deciding upon that decision. I believe a person must be willing to make peace with aftermath with loved ones, the
very real pain that can easily be caused during an attempt, as well as the
very real fear that often takes hold during an attempt. I say it is up to the suicidee to decide whether these aspects constitute significance to them; whether they
value such occurrences. If they are confident they will not feel any fear or holdback during an attempt (perhaps easily owing to the kind of 'suicidal mania' feeling that one can get, and damn can that feel good), and are most willing to accept any aftermath to loved ones (perhaps they adopt a solipsistic approach to this, a sort of 'not my problem' argument--not commenting at all on that but just noting it); then indeed, they are in tune with what
does actually come about as a result of their actions; in tune with the
real consequences of their
theoretical plans.
To say that this should be ignored in favor of any virtue, is, to me--posing the stark risk of setting up a person for disappointment, perhaps even leading to actions they are uncomfortable with--or may even, at worst case, even regret. Yes, no regret in death; but yes regret in last moments--and that, to me, matters. I think the quality of your last moments matter. I don't think they deserve to be spent writhing in guilt or indignifying physical pain. This, I do posit.
I suppose, being a purest about it- those things that hold us back may not change what we actually desire. Still, they can absolutely prevent us from achieving it- hence, we're alive and on this forum, rather than being dead!
Yes; our values weigh against each other in such a way that affects our decision. I believe that to be a normal consequence of how humans value things. And indeed we may want something but shiver at it's cost. And that is a real, understandable. situation, too.
I guess that's what I was intending by that. Not quite so much that a person isn't sure about what they want. More that- even if they feel they are, certain things may ultimately stop them.
Fair enough. But perhaps I may say--maybe even both! [are possible.] Ambivalence, stark costs; both could co-exist alongside each other--furthering confusion in life.
It wasn't meant to question a person's actual desire to end it from a logical standpoint.
Lol, no worries. I mean tbh
my argument's even pro-lifier than the one you just proposed, haha--so I'd be a tad hypocritical if I
were to say anything such.
More from a practical standpoint, leading to a logical outcome.
Absolutely. This is a grave and irreversible outcome; therefore strong logic and only the
highest of certainty, must be taken to ensure it's fidelity of quality.
In that- 'I know I want to kill myself but, the prospect of failing an attempt and making life worse for myself is enough to deter me from making an attempt.' I hope that describes my feeling about it more clearly.
A fair conclusion indeed. We weigh our risks to consider what we should do. I believe it is honest and good to be aware of what could actually happen--while in addition to clearing our conscience through honest and meticulous deliberation, to clean out messy impulses that can leave us outpacing ourselves, distancing ourselves, from ourselves--when sometimes it brings us all back together, in honest cohesion; to slow down. And to me,--with how eternal death is--slowing down, is a logical course of action. A course, that does not violate any right, but only helps to affirm it.
To me, pro-choice means ensuring the soundness of that choice. Through verifying rigorously that it strongly aligns with a person's own true values and deepest moral reasonings. This, is what I believe to be verifying a decision's morality--through honesty and recognition of a person's consent towards themselves. My thoughts here.
