Antinatalism

[sserafim]

They say I'm an antinatalist. I think that antinatalism is a logical philosophy. If you don't condone or believe in antinatalism, what are your arguments against it?

 

[3x+1]

While I agree that life is given without consent, I don't think that had to be a reason you can't enjoy it.
For me personally, I did feel pain in my life but I also felt and enjoyed a lot of happy moments, with my family, friends and alone!
While it's true that creating life can be seen as betting that your child can be in a lot of pain throughout its life If not taken care of enough is a bet I am ready to take!
For me, Life is an experience everyone should go through, I think of it like a big video game, a very long game:

A game that everyone is forced to start, if for a certain time they don't enjoy the game or hate it, they can leave and finish the game, if they enjoy it they can go through it and once they have done everything they were to do, they can leave and end the game. In both those scenario the end is the same, you turn off the screen and leave!
But its not because you were forced to play it that will you instantly hate or love it !

Well I think of life the same, there is going to be a lot of pain and suffering, if you are ready to continue in hope of joy and happiness then you are welcome to, if you really want to leave this world because you think that life is eternal suffering and non worth it, you also can!

Now that we set up my philosophy on life, I can start explaining why I don't believe in antinatalism...
I believe that after life is the same as what is before we are born, so life is just an experience that everyone didn't consent to but that will end the same
If someone has a child, the child has the free will to either continue on the path of life or enjoy it to its fullest, as in the end it will end the same, the experience of life is more important than the lack of one

And even if the child is in pain due to life and did not finding Joy in life he can wait a few years before exiting, but has exiting sooner or at the end is equal to the same result the consent of life transforms in a period of forced life that after a few years one can leave if not happy enough!

Of course I understand people that believes in antinalism and I don't think I don't condone to it as I think most philosophy is right even if you percieve it as wrong !

I hope that I was clear enough to make my point, English is not my first language and I am still learning !

 

[Left]

I used to be very antinatalistic, but now I'm just very judgemental of poor parenting, and I have strict standards for what makes a good parent. In my eyes, if you don't sacrifice everything for your child, even after they reach adulthood, you are a failure. The alternatives to this are simply not having children or adopting; you have choices here.

I do think many things may make living a life worthwhile. Most people will grow up to be functional people and claim to love life. Unfortunately, some people turn out like us, living lives of abject suffering; still, every story has some good parts.

The problem is that no cosmic justice or guarantee of a good life exists. When you decide to have a child, you are gambling on the fact that the child will end up appreciating the life they are given; there is no guarantee of that happening. Therefore, if you do have a child and they do end up living a terrible life from their subjective perspective, then you are entirely responsible for their suffering, and that reproductive decision should haunt you to the grave.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

Anyone who agrees that "Suffering is nothing else but suffering. Suffering is bad, and should be avoided to the largest extent. Suffering is equally bad no matter whom it befall" would agree with AN imo. I haven't seen any counter argument of AN that's made without somehow justifying (or ignoring) suffering first.

imo it's always better to see suffering exactly as what it is, since that's how you can effectively reduce/eliminate suffering. Firstly you have to see it. People being blind to the suffering in this world is a major reason why suffering keeps getting produced and perpetuated. It doesn't matter what your "view" on suffering is tbh. You can see it as good, bad, important, insignificant, anything you like. It only matters that the event (suffering) is happening, and it affects all of us. A great example is that a lot of people here are victims of social rules, norms, etc., and that only happens bc the pro-lifers out there are blind enough (can't see that their system is problematic in some ways), or straight up cruel enough (don't care). This has pushed a lot of people towards suicide, which in turns have a bad effect on them. If people don't start to see it, such cycle of suffering is just never going to stop. It's simple.

I'm not keen on debating with people about AN lol. To me it's just a simple fact: if people don't start to see how procreation can be very bad, more and more miserable people are going to be forced here and this is going to bring suffering to everyone. Simple.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

To exist is to suffer.
No matter how rich or successful or beautiful or healthy you are, you are always going to suffer.
Everything ultimately ends in suffering, and if you bring children into this world then they will suffer too.
There is obviously far too much suffering experienced in most people's lives and not enough happiness.
I honestly see no point in perpetuating the human race.
Non - existence brings the complete absence of suffering.