[Article] Because it’s our right (to die “on our own terms”)

[TAW122]

An interesting idea that I had in mind is whenever it comes to many rights, not limited to 2nd amendment (the right to bear arms, firearms, guns, etc. - particularly the US), abortion and women's rights, LGBTQ rights, and such, they all have a commonality when it comes to asserting their right. This is especially true whenever both sides of the debate do not concede, and then when one side decides to abandon constructive, civil dialogue and resort to insults, pettiness, and other unfounded claims. Usually, one of the ways that a conversation that has devolved to incivility and pettiness results in one of them just claiming "because it's our right."

For example, in the US, the 2nd amendment is a contentious issue between liberals and conservatives. I know of this because even in my pre-SaSu days (early 2010's or so), I often lurked around firearm forums and even YT gun content creators that talk about gun laws, legislation, and weapon functionality, so I absorbed a lot of knowledge about different kinds of firearms and ballistics. More importantly, I watched debates between pro-gun and anti-gun folks and therefore, I knew that ultimately, for those who are fervent supporters of the 2nd amendment and gun rights are vocal, and one of their arguments, usually as an absolute, is "because it's our [my] right." Therefore, it is generally said when they either believe that 1) It's no longer productive or constructive to continue debating and want to swiftly end the debate, and/or 2) an absolute statement that acts as an assertion of authority.

So in this article, I have just had an idea that perhaps we, pro-choicers, don't need to justify and try to appease and explain (often to no avail, ending in a stonewall, or worse) our position, especially when it is obvious that pro-lifers, anti-choicers, and preventionists are only looking to patronize, condescend, oppress, and/or bully us. Perhaps we could just use the claim "because it's our right [to bodily autonomy], and shall not be infringed." Of course, for those who are more level-headed and more reasonable, reasoning can be used to explain our position of pro-choice, especially if the opposing side is willing to consider the position, even if at the end they end up still not changing their mind or ultimately agreeing to disagree albeit with well reasoned argument (which means no resorting to gaslighting, incivility, ad hominem attacks, etc.). It is basically about standing up for our rights and taking a stand.

In the end, it would be very hard to reason or apply logic to people with their minds already made up. They are not open to reasoning, explanations, or even dialogue. They just want to push and impose what they believe to be 'correct' (which is subjective in the grand scheme of things and not based on objectivity – at least from the universe's perspective). Therefore, logic and reasoning will not work, but one would fight assertion of authority with assertion of [oneself's] authority. It is not about stooping down to their level, but standing up for our rights, especially our right to ultimate bodily autonomy and the largest, most important decision that a person can make.

 

[SilentSadness]

I do actually agree with this, a lot of discussions about suicide end with pro-life people saying "because you're mentally ill" anyway so continuing to debate smaller irrelevant details is futile. Regardless of whether train suicide is justified or whether there should be an age limit, the obvious self evident truth is that suicide should be a universally accepted right for adults. Sadly, when most people refuse to acknowledge their mistakes, the discussion can go nowhere.

 

[Leiot]

In the last 20 years or so the world has become very polarized on just about every issue. The number of people discussing things is going down and the number of people arguing or posting bullshit memes on Facebook is going up.

You're right, getting people to even discuss the topic is going to be very difficult. When you have one side of a topic that can't even conceptualize what the other side is saying then communication is impossible.

The problem with just saying, "It's our right.." is that it's not our right, at least not written down as one of our rights. Gun proponents can point to the 2nd Amendment and say, 'See!'. We can't. It would be interesting to look at the laws in countries where Assisted Suicide is legal and see how they word it. Or even in the few States here in the US.

But because this is a predomantly Christian nation, and Christians can get very, very loud and nasty when they want to tell other people how to live their lives we're going to have a hard road ahead of us.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It may work with people who are willing to accept that we at least should have the right of bodily autonomy. There will always be religious enthusiasts though that insist our lives belong to God. Or, others who just don't agree it's a thing you do.

The right to bear arms is also location specific. It's in your constitution so- people have grown up believing it is an intrinsic right. If I argued the same in the UK- I'd simply be told I was wrong. We don't grow up believing it's our right to arm ourselves.

Sadly, it won't make any difference either I suspect- just how well argued our perspective is. The fact of the matter is- someone in the US may face opposition from anti-gun protestors but ultimately- it won't stop them arming themselves to the teeth- if it's legal for them to do so.

We could either insist it was our right to die purely and simply or with a well argued case. I suspect the results would be the same. Those who don't qualify for assisted suicide in a more forward thinking country will be rejected. Someone about to leap off a bridge will likely be prevented.

That's not to say we shouldn't be advocating for it of course. I think we'd do better with a more thoroughly argued case though personally. Ultimately- we're trying to change legal legislation. I think we'd need to make a lot of reasoned arguments to get them to support us.

If you're talking about just regular people you happen to get into a debate with then- sure. Maybe sometimes it's better to just agree to disagree. It's kind of unlikely you would be able to change their minds if it's something they're firmly against. That kind of situation, I think it is sometimes better to just say- this is what I believe.

 

[CandleShade]

To quote: "Killing oneself is, anyway, a misnomer. We don't kill ourselves. We are simply defeated by the long, hard struggle to stay alive. When somebody dies after a long illness, people are apt to say, with a note of approval, "He fought so hard." And they are inclined to think, about a suicide, that no fight was involved, that somebody simply gave up. This is quite wrong."

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree so much. Pro lifers themselves don't even provide an adequate reason for why they want to live. If you ask them why they want to live, they would just say something like "oh, I want to live. I love life". If that's the case, why is it unacceptable for me to just say "oh, I don't want to live". If pro lifers don't have to justify why they love life, why should I justify as to why I want an earlier death? Of course I do have rational reasons for wanting an earlier death but I don't owe these people an explanation. Who are they to say that I'm wrong with what I do to my body?

 

[random_user]

This is a great point in my opinion. It helps that some countries are moving in a direction where they actually recognise this as our right. For example, Germany's highest constitutional court ruled in 2020 that the right to decide to end one's own life is part of every person's basic rights and is to be accepted by society as a form of personal self expression. I'm hoping that other countries will follow suit.

 

[TAW122]

Good points @ijustwishtodie and I would think that most pro-lifers don't really think thoroughly let alone deeply about that. They just react accordingly and shut down any attempt at meaningful dialogue when it comes to the topic. It's like some inalienable fact and some cardinal sin to even question the value of life (which objectively speaking, from a logical perspective, is a subjective value).

@random_user Thanks and I hope more countries move in that direction as well.