Discussion Assisted suicide in the Uk

[restingplace]

The UK are trying to pass a bill for assisted suicide for adults who are terminally ill. How do we feel about that? The criteria seems a lot lighter than the criteria in some other countries although still difficult

 

[dontwakemeup]

"Terminally ill," is they key! If you're considered healthy then it's never going happen for us! I hope they pass it for them tho.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It would be a start at least. I doubt it will filter down to the non terminally/ chronically ill in our lifetimes- maybe not ever. Still- if they brought it in, at least we could feel reassured that if we came down with something really nasty, there would be a way out. Plus- the people suffering now would have a way out of this barbarism. I wonder if it will really happen.

 

[Dot]

BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c99rzxlv99et
Assisted dying bill vote live updates: Kim Leadbeater says bill will give choice as Diane Abbott fears safeguards won't be enough - BBC News

 

[FuneralCry]

To me it's just so cruel and horrible how it's not an option already as all I want is to cease existing in peace and never suffer ever again, I find it such a terrible, torturous burden to be enslaved in this existence, I'll always see existence as an abomination that just causes suffering all for the sake of it with no limit as to how much one can suffer, I'd never wish for any of this, non-existence is always preferable for me. It's just horrifying to me how there's the absence of painless death with the risk of trying to die going wrong and leading to way worse agony, under no circumstances would I wish to prolong all this unnecessary suffering just to be tortured by old age, I just want peace from this existence that always felt like a mistake to me, I'm so tired of suffering in this horrific world.

 

[alltoomuch2]

Result of the vote on the second reading expected in 10 minutes

 

[HeartThatFeeds]

I really hope the bill passes through, even if it's only for those who are terminally ill, everyone deserves to go out as peacefully as they can, it will be a step in the right direction for this country

 

[alltoomuch2]

Passes 2nd reading!!!

 

[Melancholic Muse]

To be completely honest, I can't call it a victory when you account for the context that this bill is mired in. This country already has had enough of a dodgy reputation with mention of doctors putting "do not resuscitate" orders on patients who were fighting COVID during the pandemic of their own accord - a particularly pressing concern for disabled people. And now we also have to contend with the fact that the Labour government is going after people on disability benefits because they're too spineless to go after corporate tax dodgers as well as the fact that it now gives them (just like Canada) an excuse not to do anything substantive about the miserable state of the NHS or the still rising poverty rates, because now they can just loosen the criteria for the Assisted Dying Bill later on precisely like what's happened with MAiD.

Oh yeah I should also mention that this is the same country who were condemned by the United Nations for the Department of Work and Pensions' treatment of disability benefit claimants back when the Tories were still in power. Labour's done nothing to buck that trend, if anything they've elected to make it worse.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't strike me as a win for personal autonomy when we're stuck in a country that is already prepared to kill off people that aren't good little profit drones as is. We can't lose sight of the fact that the people in the Commons are not our friends just because they put a carrot in front of us.

Put another way, I don't trust them not to exploit our right to die when they barely care about our right to live.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It's a good start for sure but unfortunately the UK and the rest of the world are extremely behind when it comes to the right to die. Like FC said, it's so cruel at how this isn't an option already. Also, this isn't even the right to die at all since a right should be automatically given rather than possess a lot of restrictions to it. They even called it assisted dying instead of assisted suicide because that's just how far behind this world is

 

[Dot]

To be completely honest, I can't call it a victory when you account for the context that this bill is mired in. This country already has had enough of a dodgy reputation with mention of doctors putting "do not resuscitate" orders on patients who were fighting COVID during the pandemic of their own accord - a particularly pressing concern for disabled people. And now we also have to contend with the fact that the Labour government is going after people on disability benefits because they're too spineless to go after corporate tax dodgers as well as the fact that it now gives them (just like Canada) an excuse not to do anything substantive about the miserable state of the NHS or the still rising poverty rates, because now they can just loosen the criteria for the Assisted Dying Bill later on precisely like what's happened with MAiD.

Oh yeah I should also mention that this is the same country who were condemned by the United Nations for the Department of Work and Pensions' treatment of disability benefit claimants back when the Tories were still in power. Labour's done nothing to buck that trend, if anything they've elected to make it worse.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't strike me as a win for personal autonomy when we're stuck in a country that is already prepared to kill off people that aren't good little profit drones as is. We can't lose sight of the fact that the people in the Commons are not our friends just because they put a carrot in front of us.

Put another way, I don't trust them not to exploit our right to die when they barely care about our right to live.

Ths = an issu

Rsearch apprntly shws tht cntries wth VAD hve pushd mre ££ in2 palli8tve cre & jst hve 2 hpe tht th/ sme happns in UK

Bt mny MPs wh/ votd agnst th/ bll ws nt fr anti-VAD reasns bt mre bcse thy sy tht th/ UK helth systm = in terrbl st8 & wll nt gve ppl a propr choic

S/ whle stuatn = v dffclt

Am obvsly spportve of VAD in genrl bt am awre tht UK = doin bdly in mny contribtng areas atm

 

[avalokitesvara]

Yeah I'd like to see Labour making some moves to improve funding and quality of palliative care / hospice, disability support, NHS standards, and other social security nets alongside right to die laws. I'm generally pro-choice but the situation with MAID in Canada chills me. Disabled people who want to live are being financially pressured to die. It's evil. The state MUST support its most vulnerable to live, otherwise what is the state for? I know, it's the enabler of capitalist profit, not anything else, but atm there is still a veneer that the state is also for supporting people as well corporations.

 

[Melancholic Muse]

Yeah I'd like to see Labour making some moves to improve funding and quality of palliative care / hospice, disability support, NHS standards, and other social security nets alongside right to die laws. I'm generally pro-choice but the situation with MAID in Canada chills me. Disabled people who want to live are being financially pressured to die. It's evil. The state MUST support its most vulnerable to live, otherwise what is the state for? I know, it's the enabler of capitalist profit, not anything else, but atm there is still a veneer that the state is also for supporting people as well corporations.

Couldn't put it better. If it weren't for the circumstances from which this bill has arisen, you'd hear no complaints from me. But history has taught me that initiatives like this when compounded with governments cosying up to capital (just look at Labour's new "partnership" with Blackrock) it tends to be a very bleak omen. The right to die should be an aspect of care, not a substitute for it, and Labour's made their stance on improving social care crystal fucking clear.

 

[alltoomuch2]

To be completely honest, I can't call it a victory when you account for the context that this bill is mired in. This country already has had enough of a dodgy reputation with mention of doctors putting "do not resuscitate" orders on patients who were fighting COVID during the pandemic of their own accord - a particularly pressing concern for disabled people. And now we also have to contend with the fact that the Labour government is going after people on disability benefits because they're too spineless to go after corporate tax dodgers as well as the fact that it now gives them (just like Canada) an excuse not to do anything substantive about the miserable state of the NHS or the still rising poverty rates, because now they can just loosen the criteria for the Assisted Dying Bill later on precisely like what's happened with MAiD.

Oh yeah I should also mention that this is the same country who were condemned by the United Nations for the Department of Work and Pensions' treatment of disability benefit claimants back when the Tories were still in power. Labour's done nothing to buck that trend, if anything they've elected to make it worse.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't strike me as a win for personal autonomy when we're stuck in a country that is already prepared to kill off people that aren't good little profit drones as is. We can't lose sight of the fact that the people in the Commons are not our friends just because they put a carrot in front of us.

Put another way, I don't trust them not to exploit our right to die when they barely care about our right to live.

I'm still a bit scared of what the labour govt will do, but compared to the previous scum, they are significantly better and I haven't seen any action that could be classed as "going after disabled people". What have I missed?
Don't think I'd better look at any more of these comments because I'm gonna rage

To be completely honest, I can't call it a victory when you account for the context that this bill is mired in. This country already has had enough of a dodgy reputation with mention of doctors putting "do not resuscitate" orders on patients who were fighting COVID during the pandemic of their own accord - a particularly pressing concern for disabled people. And now we also have to contend with the fact that the Labour government is going after people on disability benefits because they're too spineless to go after corporate tax dodgers as well as the fact that it now gives them (just like Canada) an excuse not to do anything substantive about the miserable state of the NHS or the still rising poverty rates, because now they can just loosen the criteria for the Assisted Dying Bill later on precisely like what's happened with MAiD.

Oh yeah I should also mention that this is the same country who were condemned by the United Nations for the Department of Work and Pensions' treatment of disability benefit claimants back when the Tories were still in power. Labour's done nothing to buck that trend, if anything they've elected to make it worse.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't strike me as a win for personal autonomy when we're stuck in a country that is already prepared to kill off people that aren't good little profit drones as is. We can't lose sight of the fact that the people in the Commons are not our friends just because they put a carrot in front of us.

Put another way, I don't trust them not to exploit our right to die when they barely care about our right to live.

The Tories were the most vile evil scum and their new leader has crawled up from hell like the last one, but they have very few MPs now so why are you worrying about them. Don't we have enough to worry about. Anyway I'm off to put some more songs on my ctb playlist. Thoroughly sick of people

 

[avalokitesvara]

I'm still a bit scared of what the labour govt will do, but compared to the previous scum, they are significantly better and I haven't seen any action that could be classed as "going after disabled people". What have I missed?
Don't think I'd better look at any more of these comments because I'm gonna rage

PIP changes: Everything you need to know if you receive disability benefit

The government is looking at changing who is eligible for PIP, how decisions on it are made and the method by which recipients are compensated.

news.sky.com

The situation is already extremely harsh for disabled people (including people with MH diagnoses) and these changes are not in a positive direction. Even people with profound lifelong incurable disabilities have to constantly prove that they deserve the pittance the government gives them to survive.
Tbh the govt may as well say they aren't interested in trying to support disabled people to live independent lives any more, and go back to warehousing them like the old days. Either that or they'll institute something MAID style to exterminate the financially non-viable.

I know assisted dying is extremely important and emotive to people in our community, but this could well profoundly affect other groups of people who are absolutely not suicidal and who want to live but are victims of these fucked neoliberal policies.

 

[alltoomuch2]

PIP changes: Everything you need to know if you receive disability benefit

The government is looking at changing who is eligible for PIP, how decisions on it are made and the method by which recipients are compensated.

news.sky.com

The situation is already extremely harsh for disabled people (including people with MH diagnoses) and these changes are not in a positive direction. Even people with profound lifelong incurable disabilities have to constantly prove that they deserve the pittance the government gives them to survive.
Tbh the govt may as well say they aren't interested in trying to support disabled people to live independent lives any more, and go back to warehousing them like the old days. Either that or they'll institute something MAID style to exterminate the financially non-viable.

I know assisted dying is extremely important and emotive to people in our community, but this could well profoundly affect other groups of people who are absolutely not suicidal and who want to live but are victims of these fucked neoliberal policies.

Did you not read the highlighted bit of your link to something published months ago, "Proposed changes come as part of the prime minister's pledge to reform the welfare system if the Conservatives win the next general election.". Can we have a sensible discussion not something akin to fox news, or GB news. I know how hard it is to get PIP. I am probably eligible because I'm in the new ESA support group (so have already had a WCA). That's why I haven't applied for PIP. Because I'd probably have to go as far as MR and I know I couldn't handle that. Christ I had a DWP mori survey worker send an ambulance out to me last night after they'd only asked two questions because I couldn't hold it together. But that's nothing to do with labour. And I didn't vote labour and don't like labour. But please let's have some bloody sense here. Sorry. I think I've lost it. Would probably be sectioned tonight if there was anywhere for them to put me. I'll try not to post any more apart from my diary. Apilogies

 

[Ironborn]

On principle I agree with it but if a UK politician told me the sky was blue I'd look up to check.
I don't want government or the civil service within a thousand miles of something like this.
Make safe and effective methods available but the government should not have a single hand in it.

 

[avalokitesvara]

Did you not read the highlighted bit of your link to something published months ago, "Proposed changes come as part of the prime minister's pledge to reform the welfare system if the Conservatives win the next general election.". Can we have a sensible discussion not something akin to fox news, or GB news. I know how hard it is to get PIP. I am probably eligible because I'm in the new ESA support group (so have already had a WCA). That's why I haven't applied for PIP. Because I'd probably have to go as far as MR and I know I couldn't handle that. Christ I had a DWP mori survey worker send an ambulance out to me last night after they'd only asked two questions because I couldn't hold it together. But that's nothing to do with labour. And I didn't vote labour and don't like labour. But please let's have some bloody sense here. Sorry. I think I've lost it. Would probably be sectioned tonight if there was anywhere for them to put me. I'll try not to post any more apart from my diary. Apilogies

Fair enough, I misread/skimmed. However I have seen this on the ground with real people I know, and the current proposed reforms for 2025 that Labour have floated currently lack any details but are absolutely aimed at reducing the "non-working" population among the "long-term sick". How else will they do that other than making it harder for people to access PIP and other benefits?

 

[ijustwishtodie]

On principle I agree with it but if a UK politician told me the sky was blue I'd look up to check.
I don't want government or the civil service within a thousand miles of something like this.
Make safe and effective methods available but the government should not have a single hand in it.

Yeah, people here have pointed out issues with there being a positive liberty right when it comes to the "right to die" (i.e. where the government puts services in place to allow people to access euthanasia). To counteract the worries that people have here, what should be done instead is us having negative liberty rights when it comes to suicide (which, rather than the NHS or whatever supplying us euthanasia, the government doesn't ban access to products like nembutal and we can just buy these products ourselves if needed). Although, I don't have any issues with any positive liberty rights that get placed either since this world honestly needs a way to allow people to choose when and how they die. The right to live cannot exist without the right to die

 

[alltoomuch2]

On principle I agree with it but if a UK politician told me the sky was blue I'd look up to check.
I don't want government or the civil service within a thousand miles of something like this.
Make safe and effective methods available but the government should not have a single hand in it.

Fair enough, I misread/skimmed. However I have seen this on the ground with real people I know, and the current proposed reforms for 2025 that Labour have floated currently lack any details but are absolutely aimed at reducing the "non-working" population among the "long-term sick". How else will they do that other than making it harder for people to access PIP and other benefits?

I can't even read your words sorry. Whatever you're saying I'm sure you're right. I think I've lost it here

 

[ghost-shock]

Im surprised they're actually passing it, the uk have always been uptight about assisted suicide. Alot of people have always voiced being against suicide. The passing of the bill is a step in the right direction.