Venting Being an outcast amongst other outcasts

[ijustwishtodie]

It's actually shocking as to how different I am from everybody else here (with the exception of a few users). Of course everybody is different so there is bound to be nuances meaning that I don't expect everybody to be identical to each other but I feel like a lot of people here just click more with each other whilst I'm an outcast even on here. I'm trying my best to find similarities between me and everybody else here since this community is already small enough so I should be aligning with this community rather than going against it but time and time again the stark differences between me and everybody's else keeps on showing up. Of course I do share some similarities with some people such as how a lot of us tend to agree with the right to die (though some of you would probably be against the right to die being applicable to me due to the myth of the brain being fully developed at 25) but the way I approach life and the world is just so different compared to everybody else here.

I'm not going to sugarcoat anything and I'll go straight to the point by saying that I believe in a "pro death" or "pro non existence" perspective. I do believe that an earlier death is always better than a later death and that existence is a harm. I should clarify that I only believe this in a philosophical standpoint and that, despite my beliefs, people have the right and should have the right to choose to continue existing if they want to (similarly people should be allowed to die peacefully if they want to). I've noticed that some people here seem to value life as a whole or even value suffering but I personally can't do that as I see life itself and suffering itself as bad. I don't see anything good in suffering and I know that there are people here who do see some amount of suffering as good though of course there are limits to that. I also just can't agree with the "life is neutral" crowd on here as there's nothing neutral about suffering. I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this view but I'm tired of keeping this hidden and this site is the only place where I can vent about it. Once again, I'm not encouraging suicide but merely focusing on the issues of life. I've yet to see a valid reason for why prolonging life is a good thing. I don't see the absence of life on mars as a bad thing but I see the presence of life on earth as bad as there's so much suffering and pain here.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of people here have actually wanted to live and don't tend to have issues with doing the baseline that humans have to do (such as work and chores and so on) and that suicide has come to a last resort decision due to some specific issue in life. From what I can tell, it seems like many people would want to live if they had the average life and there's nothing wrong with that but it's yet another way in how I differ from everybody else here as I see existence itself as the problem.

My issues are with existence itself and the mere act of living. Everybody else here seems like they do enjoy or at least have enjoyed things in life and that they want to do things whether that be work or be in a relationship and so on which is all fine if that's what they want. However, I personally never wanted anything in life and I've always been forced to do things that I don't want to do. I actually can't point out a single moment of joy that I had or a single moment in life where I was like "yeah, I wanted to do this". For me, every waking second is torture because I am alive. All I want is peace and I know that I'll find that in death. I hate at how life is full of perpetual hardship and struggles. I don't want my life to be harder, I want it to be easier. Even having the views that I have makes life harder as I'm further isolated from a community which is already niche to begin with.

I'm just so tired and exhausted. I'm sorry if I hurt anybody with this post, I just needed to vent this out here because this is the only place I have left. If you want to hate and ridicule me for this, feel free to do so but at least let me post this here.

 

[UnrulyNightmare]

Just want to give you a hug

Same opinions or not, you shouldn't feel like an outcast ever!

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Just want to give you a hug

Same opinions or not, you shouldn't feel like an outcast ever!

It isn't that I feel like an outcast but more so of the fact that I am, at least by definition. This is a lonely and isolating path to walk down on but I can't choose any other path since I consider this path to be the truth. Nonetheless, thank you for your words, I was worried about the replies I'd get here as I know that a lot of people would hate me for my views but seeing your reply made me feel a bit relieved. Thank you

 

[Unspoken7612]

So firstly, I want to say how hard it sounds like you've had things if you've truly never enjoyed anything. That must really suck. To never have enjoyed a meal, or the feeling of sun on your skin, or the wonder of a surprise twist - I can imagine how bleak that would make life feel. You're entitled to draw conclusions about your own life based on your experiences, and I hope nobody would judge you for that. Indeed, many people here have come to similar, if not quite so extreme, conclusions.

That said, I note that you don't want to force other people to die, which is obviously good. I think you might find it easier to connect with people if you switched from an "objective" perspective to a "subjective" perspective. I do think you're making a mistake in generalising from your own experience to everyone's experience. You think your life is pure suffering with no positives - fine. But life as a whole, for most people, clearly isn't. Other people (not all other people, but most of them) view their lives as net positive and wish to continue living. This includes many people who are at least as rational and intelligent as you are. If we accept people's right to make choices about their own lives, then we inherently also accept their judgements about the value of their life. When you say "life is inherently negative", you're inherently creating a disagreement, but if you said "my life is inherently negative", then suddenly that gap shrinks dramatically - people will find it harder to disagree with that statement because it is for you to judge.

Now, that doesn't mean you have to think that you'd like to live the way they do. Most Westerners probably wouldn't want to live the life of a sustenance farmer in Burkina Faso, but most sustenance farmers in Burkina Faso do, and it would be wrong for Western governments to "mercy kill" Burkinabe farmers (as I think you agree). And I appreciate that this difference of opinion about whether other people's lives are worth living might feel isolating for you. I can't deny that you're more pessimistic than most people here, and we're already a pessimistic bunch. But if you switched from "all life is inherently suffering" to "my life is inherently suffering", suddenly you'd be pretty much bang in the middle.

 

[We Are Angels]

I don't feel like a lot of those views are too unpopular here. I mostly agree with you.

 

[derpyderpins]

However, I personally never wanted anything in life and I've always been forced to do things that I don't want to do.

It seems like you want to not be an outcast, or to have more people think the way you do, considering you post about it a lot.

Just the fact that you post here at all shows that you want something, even if it is a relief in the amount of suffering you have while you are forced to be alive.

To wit:

It isn't that I feel like an outcast but more so of the fact that I am, at least by definition. This is a lonely and isolating path to walk down on but I can't choose any other path since I consider this path to be the truth. Nonetheless, thank you for your words, I was worried about the replies I'd get here as I know that a lot of people would hate me for my views but seeing your reply made me feel a bit relieved. Thank you

It sounds like you want to not be lonely and isolated. I'm also interested in who you think 'hates' you for your views. I know a lot of people disagree with your absolutist views and statements - I would say rightfully so - but hatred is something that takes energy and effort on the part of the hate-or. I personally don't see it.

You also seem to value truth, which means to some extent you "want" it.

Of course I do share some similarities with some people such as how a lot of us tend to agree with the right to die (though some of you would probably be against the right to die being applicable to me due to the myth of the brain being fully developed at 25) but the way I approach life and the world is just so different compared to everybody else here.

I usually discourage teenagers and younger from ctb not because of brain development but because they typically have not experienced what life really has to offer. Haven't seen anyone on here extend that to age 25, which I'd greatly disagree with. Would like to talk to someone who thinks that way.

In total, to match your lack of sugarcoating, I think you are very misguided and narrow-minded in favor of your own experience. There are people who get immense joy out of life and connections with other people, and while you wouldn't force them to die you think they are objectively wrong in some way for having a positive experience. That's foolish, if I'm being honest. It discredits other areas where you may have good insights.

But I wouldn't discount your view of your own life and I certainly value you as a member of this community. I hope your suffering is able to remain as low as possible until you find the peace you're after. If anything I feel bad for you, because you're locked in a cycle which will only reinforce these views, which in turn only increase your mental suffering. But that's a bit of a rub, right? If you didn't desire "truth," you would allow your views to be more maleable and embrace views that came with less mental suffering. But you don't do that, which evidences that you actually - to some extent - value "truth" more than you value reducing your suffering.

you actually - to some extent - value "truth" more than you value reducing your suffering.

and I relate. I'm a stubborn SoB.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

So firstly, I want to say how hard it sounds like you've had things if you've truly never enjoyed anything. That must really suck. To never have enjoyed a meal, or the feeling of sun on your skin, or the wonder of a surprise twist - I can imagine how bleak that would make life feel. You're entitled to draw conclusions about your own life based on your experiences, and I hope nobody would judge you for that. Indeed, many people here have come to similar, if not quite so extreme, conclusions.

People enjoy those types of things? I wonder what even looks like. To me, that's such an alien concept. I've always done things like watch youtube videos to pass the time but I can't really say that I enjoy it. I feel like describing to me how people enjoy life is like explaining colour to a blind person

That said, I note that you don't want to force other people to die, which is obviously good. I think you might find it easier to connect with people if you switched from an "objective" perspective to a "subjective" perspective. I do think you're making a mistake in generalising from your own experience to everyone's experience. You think your life is pure suffering with no positives - fine. But life as a whole, for most people, clearly isn't. Other people (not all other people, but most of them) view their lives as net positive and wish to continue living. This includes many people who are at least as rational and intelligent as you are. If we accept people's right to make choices about their own lives, then we inherently also accept their judgements about the value of their life. When you say "life is inherently negative", you're inherently creating a disagreement, but if you said "my life is inherently negative", then suddenly that gap shrinks dramatically - people will find it harder to disagree with that statement because it is for you to judge.

I acknowledge that some people enjoy life even if I can't understand why or how they enjoy life. I'm not saying that everybody's life is like mine where it's perpetual suffering (as otherwise I wouldn't feel so isolated thus I wouldn't have the need to make this thread). I just see life itself as inherently negative because someone or something always has to suffer for people to enjoy life in most cases. I'm considering life as a whole and not just human life. A lot of animals in the wild die horrifically to predators. I get that happy people exist but I personally can't see how it justifies the suffering that happens in the world and to non humans as well. I want life to have all winners, not winners and losers but unfortunately that's impossible. Even if many people are winners, I don't consider them to be justification of the losers existing.

Now, that doesn't mean you have to think that you'd like to live the way they do. Most Westerners probably wouldn't want to live the life of a sustenance farmer in Burkina Faso, but most sustenance farmers in Burkina Faso do, and it would be wrong for Western governments to "mercy kill" Burkinabe farmers (as I think you agree). And I appreciate that this difference of opinion about whether other people's lives are worth living might feel isolating for you. I can't deny that you're more pessimistic than most people here, and we're already a pessimistic bunch. But if you switched from "all life is inherently suffering" to "my life is inherently suffering", suddenly you'd be pretty much bang in the middle.

I don't want to live the way others do and, even if I did, I can't since my neurotype doesn't let me do that. All I want is death.

It seems like you want to not be an outcast, or to have more people think the way you do, considering you post about it a lot.

Just the fact that you post here at all shows that you want something, even if it is a relief in the amount of suffering you have while you are forced to be alive.

It's like you said, I want a relief in the amount of suffering I have whilst existing. Of course I'd rather be dead than not be an outcast but since death isn't as easily accessible to me, I'd rather have my suffering mitigated in life and being in a world where everybody else is just so different from me doesn't help in that aspect at all.

To wit:


It sounds like you want to not be lonely and isolated. I'm also interested in who you think 'hates' you for your views. I know a lot of people disagree with your absolutist views and statements - I would say rightfully so - but hatred is something that takes energy and effort on the part of the hate-or. I personally don't see it.

There are some users here, I wonder if they'll show themselves or not. I don't want to point anybody out because I'd rather not have to deal with them if possible but they do exist.

You also seem to value truth, which means to some extent you "want" it.

I guess so?

In total, to match your lack of sugarcoating, I think you are very misguided and narrow-minded in favor of your own experience. There are people who get immense joy out of life and connections with other people, and while you wouldn't force them to die you think they are objectively wrong in some way for having a positive experience. That's foolish, if I'm being honest. It discredits other areas where you may have good insights.

I don't think that they're wrong for having a positive experience. My issue isn't the fact that some people have a positive experience but rather that, for positive to exist, negative has to also exist. There are winners and losers in life and that's what I hate. If I could eradicate all of the beings in life who suffer and leave the ones who value their lives, that'd be nice but it's impossible for suffering to not exist if life exists. I just don't see any other way to get rid of suffering

But I wouldn't discount your view of your own life and I certainly value you as a member of this community. I hope your suffering is able to remain as low as possible until you find the peace you're after. If anything I feel bad for you, because you're locked in a cycle which will only reinforce these views, which in turn only increase your mental suffering. But that's a bit of a rub, right? If you didn't desire "truth," you would allow your views to be more maleable and embrace views that came with less mental suffering. But you don't do that, which evidences that you actually - to some extent - value "truth" more than you value reducing your suffering.

Thank you. Also, I will admit that you're right in the sense that my life has trapped me in a cycle that reinforces my views as the only reason why I don't want losers to exist is because I am one myself. The reason why I value suffering more than happiness is because I am suffering. If I was happy with my life, I would probably shame pro mortalists and not side with them but I'm in this position because the suffering that I'm going through makes me realise just how shitty this is and how bad the depths of suffering can go to. Another thing about me is that I don't really know how to deviate from the truth (or what I consider to be the truth). I struggle with believing in things that aren't true and, honestly, I'm not even sure as to what sort of mindset would reduce my suffering to begin with.

and I relate. I'm a stubborn SoB.

SoB?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

You shouldn't feel like an outcast anywhere and especially not here! I mean, we all have different opinions and see things according to our personal views but we should respect each other. That's what is important.

 

[Leiot]

You're not an outcast here. This is probably the most inclusive group I've ever been in. I haven't see anyone ridiculed or criticized for anything they've written. People have disagreed with others but it's not nasty.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

You're not an outcast here. This is probably the most inclusive group I've ever been in. I haven't see anyone ridiculed or criticized for anything they've written. People have disagreed with others but it's not nasty.

I feel like telling someone who is opening up about their feelings of being an outcast and telling them they aren't an outcast and going on about how inclusive people here are kind of makes it come off as though you are (unintentionally) trying to invalidate their feelings.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

I don't feel exactly the same way, but I have noticed I tend to agree with many of your posts on here. And I feel like I don't fit in here either. Probably more my age-44.

It is sad how you described enjoying anything as an alien experience. For me, it's the little stuff that helps me get by. A good TV show, a good book, a good meal. I'm sorry you haven't experienced that. And from other posts of yours, I've seen, I get that you are in a tough spot and feel trapped.

I stay on here because ultimately most of us simply do not want to be here whatever the reason is. i've gotten to a point where it's less about past and current stuff, and I am absolutely terrified of all the things that could go wrong in an instant or the big life changes that I am going to have to deal with as I get older, and even the thought of getting older itself. There's enough suffering in this world. Sometimes I feel like I am heading in the direction of simply not wanting to exist. There's no suffering ever if you don't exist.

I actually think of you sometimes when I am doing the same chores and routine over and over and over. And I've done my 20 years as a wage slave before my OCD got so bad I couldn't work even if I wanted to.
I think many of your fears like simply not seeing the appeal of going through life even if you're not doing the same thing over and over is valid.
Ultimately, look at my username :)

 

[divinemistress36]

I enjoy reading your posts I relate to them. I often feel like an Outcast to since I dont enjoy doing much. I feel like most mentally ill people I talk to still have hobbies and enjoy doing stuff. Whereas I just want to sleep and chill with my dog

 

[ijustwishtodie]

You're not an outcast here. This is probably the most inclusive group I've ever been in. I haven't see anyone ridiculed or criticized for anything they've written. People have disagreed with others but it's not nasty.

How does this group being inclusive for you mean that the same thing is true for everybody else here? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this site and I actually consider this site to be the best place there is because I can at least vent about my views and about me as a person but I still am too different from others here in terms of my views and about me as a person. It just sucks as to how alien I am from everybody else, even on here but I will still appreciate this site existing since there needs to be a place where we can talk about suicide related topics without getting shamed for it.

I don't feel exactly the same way, but I have noticed I tend to agree with many of your posts on here. And I feel like I don't fit in here either. Probably more my age-44.

It is sad how you described enjoying anything as an alien experience. For me, it's the little stuff that helps me get by. A good TV show, a good book, a good meal. I'm sorry you haven't experienced that. And from other posts of yours, I've seen, I get that you are in a tough spot and feel trapped.

I stay on here because ultimately most of us simply do not want to be here whatever the reason is. i've gotten to a point where it's less about past and current stuff, and I am absolutely terrified of all the things that could go wrong in an instant or the big life changes that I am going to have to deal with as I get older, and even the thought of getting older itself. There's enough suffering in this world. Sometimes I feel like I am heading in the direction of simply not wanting to exist. There's no suffering ever if you don't exist.

I actually think of you sometimes when I am doing the same chores and routine over and over and over. And I've done my 20 years as a wage slave before my OCD got so bad I couldn't work even if I wanted to.
I think many of your fears like simply not seeing the appeal of going through life even if you're not doing the same thing over and over is valid.
Ultimately, look at my username :)

I'm surprised to see that some people here agree with a lot of my posts on here. As for the little stuff, yeah, I never really understood that personally. I will say that my brain is wired to prefer specific things over others due to a preference such as how my favourite ice cream is cookies and cream or how my favourite species are cats but I don't really feel joy over these things tbh. As for movies and TV shows, I honestly don't even know the last time I watched a movie or a TV show. I'm so scared of the future and what that will entail for me. I worry so much about having to go homeless due to being unable to conform with life despite me being forced to conform with life (yes, I have told my mum about this and, no, I didn't receive any support as all I got were bs religious answers about life being a test and how I can't complain about the system that god has designed since then I'd be going against god). I'm shocked that I'm in your mind when you aren't on this site. It's rather surprising to hear that I mean something to somebody. I'm sorry for your suffering.

I enjoy reading your posts I relate to them. I often feel like an Outcast to since I dont enjoy doing much. I feel like most mentally ill people I talk to still have hobbies and enjoy doing stuff. Whereas I just want to sleep and chill with my dog

That makes the two of us. I like reading your posts too and I also don't enjoy much. I just want to sleep and stay asleep forever. I always sucked at ice breaker questions back at school because I had to make something up and I'm shitty at lying. Sometimes I tell them the truth by saying that what I like is sleep and that's it, this made a lot of people stare weirdly at me. I like it when I get to sleep every night but I hate at how it isn't permanent for me

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

I think it's an age thing. The older members here like myself won't hesitate to agree with you. Many here won't see where you're coming from until a couple more decades of experiencing the same suffering and realizing it will never go away. And because the world is clearly getting progressively worse, this realization will come at a sooner age for each successive generation.

I predict a CTB epidemic and sharp decline in yearly population rates in the very near future. The world acts like it doesn't want to see this happen but does nothing to change the course.

 

[divinemistress36]

I think it's an age thing. The older members here like myself won't hesitate to agree with you. Many here won't see where you're coming from until a couple more decades of experiencing the same suffering and realizing it will never go away. And because the world is clearly getting progressively worse, this realization will come at a sooner age for each successive generation.

I predict a CTB epidemic and sharp decline in yearly population rates in the very near future. The world acts like it doesn't want to see this happen but does nothing to change the course.

30 % increase in suicides in past 10 years

 

[Leiot]

I feel like telling someone who is opening up about their feelings of being an outcast and telling them they aren't an outcast and going on about how inclusive people here are kind of makes it come off as though you are (unintentionally) trying to invalidate their feelings.

I did not want to imply anything other than what I said. Sorry if I worded it badly.

 

[no.one]

People enjoy those types of things? I wonder what even looks like. To me, that's such an alien concept. I've always done things like watch youtube videos to pass the time but I can't really say that I enjoy it. I feel like describing to me how people enjoy life is like explaining colour to a blind person

I acknowledge that some people enjoy life even if I can't understand why or how they enjoy life. I'm not saying that everybody's life is like mine where it's perpetual suffering (as otherwise I wouldn't feel so isolated thus I wouldn't have the need to make this thread). I just see life itself as inherently negative because someone or something always has to suffer for people to enjoy life in most cases. I'm considering life as a whole and not just human life. A lot of animals in the wild die horrifically to predators. I get that happy people exist but I personally can't see how it justifies the suffering that happens in the world and to non humans as well. I want life to have all winners, not winners and losers but unfortunately that's impossible. Even if many people are winners, I don't consider them to be justification of the losers existing.

I don't want to live the way others do and, even if I did, I can't since my neurotype doesn't let me do that. All I want is death.

It's like you said, I want a relief in the amount of suffering I have whilst existing. Of course I'd rather be dead than not be an outcast but since death isn't as easily accessible to me, I'd rather have my suffering mitigated in life and being in a world where everybody else is just so different from me doesn't help in that aspect at all.

There are some users here, I wonder if they'll show themselves or not. I don't want to point anybody out because I'd rather not have to deal with them if possible but they do exist.

I guess so?

I don't think that they're wrong for having a positive experience. My issue isn't the fact that some people have a positive experience but rather that, for positive to exist, negative has to also exist. There are winners and losers in life and that's what I hate. If I could eradicate all of the beings in life who suffer and leave the ones who value their lives, that'd be nice but it's impossible for suffering to not exist if life exists. I just don't see any other way to get rid of suffering

Thank you. Also, I will admit that you're right in the sense that my life has trapped me in a cycle that reinforces my views as the only reason why I don't want losers to exist is because I am one myself. The reason why I value suffering more than happiness is because I am suffering. If I was happy with my life, I would probably shame pro mortalists and not side with them but I'm in this position because the suffering that I'm going through makes me realise just how shitty this is and how bad the depths of suffering can go to. Another thing about me is that I don't really know how to deviate from the truth (or what I consider to be the truth). I struggle with believing in things that aren't true and, honestly, I'm not even sure as to what sort of mindset would reduce my suffering to begin with.

SoB?

I don't have much advice to offer, i do agree a lot with what @Unspoken7612 has said though. I wanted to say... i love that you're able to have a true conversation about your views here. that you didn't shut down and shut the responses from the community out.

I completely understand your point of view of "if there are winners there are losers as well". its true...not everyone can win in life. that point is valid. but i believe you're not alone or an outcast here. there are many of us that dont reply but read posts. i have been a lurker for a long while, and just recently made an account. even then, i dont always reply to posts, but i do read a lot of them and simply react to them.

i do hope that now you have put your full view out there, that you may come across one or two.. or more that you can connect with and not feel so lonely.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

I agree with a couple of these last few posts.it is partly an age thing too. One reason I think about @ijustwishtodie is that I almost wonder if I should envy them in a weird way because they are young and already realize that life isn't going to be sunshine and rainbows. I never thought I was going to have a great life, but I didn't think it would be this shitty. And that is without anything traumatic ever happening to me unlike so many people here. They are way ahead of me at that age.

Another reason I think of @ijustwishtodie is when I said I enjoy the little things, I mean, like the highlight of my day is usually eating or watching a tv show . I am just a boring person. I've never been fun to be with. I like TV, but I hate movies. And I don't watch the same shows as other people do. I used to feel like such a freak with the people I worked with. I hated talking about myself because I had nothing to talk about , I don't like to do anything! So I get a lot of what they say and try to remember that I'm not completely alone and that there are other people who have similar views, even if we have different circumstances.

And it breaks my heart to hear that in addition to all your feelings, you worry about being homeless in the future. That's not something I ever had to worry about and I can't imagine what it would be like if I did. In my case, I have my parents to thank for that.
Plus religion never factored into any of this for me. I am an atheist, so I can't even imagine if my family was religious, and I had that to deal with on top of all my other issues.

You are strong for making it this far. Go ahead and vent every single day. Do whatever you need to do to get by.

 

[derpyderpins]

People enjoy those types of things? I wonder what even looks like. To me, that's such an alien concept. I've always done things like watch youtube videos to pass the time but I can't really say that I enjoy it. I feel like describing to me how people enjoy life is like explaining colour to a blind person

I acknowledge that some people enjoy life even if I can't understand why or how they enjoy life. I'm not saying that everybody's life is like mine where it's perpetual suffering (as otherwise I wouldn't feel so isolated thus I wouldn't have the need to make this thread). I just see life itself as inherently negative because someone or something always has to suffer for people to enjoy life in most cases. I'm considering life as a whole and not just human life. A lot of animals in the wild die horrifically to predators. I get that happy people exist but I personally can't see how it justifies the suffering that happens in the world and to non humans as well. I want life to have all winners, not winners and losers but unfortunately that's impossible. Even if many people are winners, I don't consider them to be justification of the losers existing.

I don't want to live the way others do and, even if I did, I can't since my neurotype doesn't let me do that. All I want is death.

It's like you said, I want a relief in the amount of suffering I have whilst existing. Of course I'd rather be dead than not be an outcast but since death isn't as easily accessible to me, I'd rather have my suffering mitigated in life and being in a world where everybody else is just so different from me doesn't help in that aspect at all.

There are some users here, I wonder if they'll show themselves or not. I don't want to point anybody out because I'd rather not have to deal with them if possible but they do exist.

I guess so?

I don't think that they're wrong for having a positive experience. My issue isn't the fact that some people have a positive experience but rather that, for positive to exist, negative has to also exist. There are winners and losers in life and that's what I hate. If I could eradicate all of the beings in life who suffer and leave the ones who value their lives, that'd be nice but it's impossible for suffering to not exist if life exists. I just don't see any other way to get rid of suffering

Thank you. Also, I will admit that you're right in the sense that my life has trapped me in a cycle that reinforces my views as the only reason why I don't want losers to exist is because I am one myself. The reason why I value suffering more than happiness is because I am suffering. If I was happy with my life, I would probably shame pro mortalists and not side with them but I'm in this position because the suffering that I'm going through makes me realise just how shitty this is and how bad the depths of suffering can go to. Another thing about me is that I don't really know how to deviate from the truth (or what I consider to be the truth). I struggle with believing in things that aren't true and, honestly, I'm not even sure as to what sort of mindset would reduce my suffering to begin with.

SoB?

SoB = son of a bitch, lol

What is the cutoff for being a loser?

If I go and read your original post, then your response to me, and they are incompatible:

My issues are with existence itself and the mere act of living.

I see existence itself as the problem.

I see the presence of life on earth as bad

I see life itself and suffering itself as bad.

every waking second is torture because I am alive.

Note: not "because I am a loser"; it's "because I am alive."

I do believe that an earlier death is always better than a later death

Then:

I don't think that they're wrong for having a positive experience.

But life itself is bad. The experience of living is bad. Earlier death is ALWAYS better than earlier life yet they want to live longer. If vanilla ice cream is ALWAYS better than chocolate and I order chocolate than I'm wrong to do so

My issue isn't the fact that some people have a positive experience but rather that, for positive to exist, negative has to also exist.

Everyone suffers. Even those people having a positive experience have bad days and get colds and fight with their family sometimes.

There are winners and losers in life and that's what I hate. If I could eradicate all of the beings in life who suffer and leave the ones who value their lives, that'd be nice but it's impossible for suffering to not exist if life exists. I just don't see any other way to get rid of suffering.

Leads me back to my initial question of what determines winners and losers? If we go just by the fact that one prefers life in spite of the suffering that comes with it, you will have people from all walks of life, backgrounds, and traditional measurable outcomes. If you use circumstances and traditional measurable outcomes, you'll be including a lot of rich successful people in psychic misery as "winners".

If we define winners and losers by the end preference for life v. death, there's no reason one can't envision an eventual future where most people are "winners" and the few "losers" are offered a peaceful exit.

Of course, we're far away from that, and arguably first world countries have stalled or are moving in the wrong direction! Your response to me, on its own, is insightful and a good jumping off point for conversations about the bad in the world. It's mature to avoid the trap of calling the people who have a positive experience the "losers," as many pro-mortalists do in one way or another. Expanding your views not only helps you find more of the truth, it helps grapple with whatever that truth is. I'm not saying to change your views, but when your first message uses phrases like death "always" being better, it's like you are wearing blinders and only focusing on one narrow part of a much bigger picture, if that makes sense.

No one should make you feel like an outcast and I'm sorry that you've been made to feel that way. Again, I consider you a staple of the community really from the day I became active. If you can take the blinders off and have the wider view, a natural outcome will be better interactions even with people who don't see eye to eye with you.

 

[-Link-]

I'm just so tired and exhausted. I'm sorry if I hurt anybody with this post, I just needed to vent this out here because this is the only place I have left. If you want to hate and ridicule me for this, feel free to do so but at least let me post this here.

I don't think you're hurting anybody here!

Personally, even if I disagree with some of the things you say, I value your presence here all the same and I like seeing your name pop up in a thread because you are a familiar face around here which, for me, is a source of comfort.

You've gotten a lot of informative feedback in this thread, and I hope you're able take something from that.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Yeah i feel like an outcast . but i don't care. i'll never believe something just because a lot of humans do. for one thing i can't get over that a human is just cells a brain in box trapped in a body of a small animal that ages . but i've never seen anyone mention this. also that all 8 billion will die in 130 years all 8 billion alive now will be dead. how many times have we heard any of this? i never have .

Cell theory | Definition, History, Importance, Scientists, First Proposed, & Facts | Britannica

Cell theory, fundamental scientific theory of biology according to which cells are held to be the basic units of all living tissues. First proposed by German scientists Theodor Schwann and Matthias Jakob Schleiden in 1838, the theory that all plants and animals are made up of cells marked a great

www.britannica.com

some other things i think that i don't know if some people here see some of these but i know this is the only place i could post this .other places i'd get banned or irl they'd call the mental hospital on me for saying some of the things in the post .and the thing is i haven't posted a lot of what i wrote only to me on laptop. i might post that on a website . what i wrote the horror of existence

no one can convince me that there is an objective reason why i have to live another minute in this prison hell. No one can convince me that there is an objective reason to live another minute . Nor that i should want to live another minute or second .there is not an objective reason that any sentient animal has to live or should want to live. life has no objective purpose . life is meaningless .

for one thing life is just a piece of chemistry ,DNA, cells a machine.

on top of that thing there is unbearable pain so bad that it makes everything meaningless.

I'm an abomination , cells, a brain in a box, a brain that can suffer unending constant unbearable pain. trapped in these monstrous cells always hungry always needy always worried scared constantly struggling constantly working for what reason? there is no fucking reason.

So just these 3 reasons each alone show life is meaningless suffering but they sum up on top of each other because they are all part of life.

Plus they made this world a worse prison by making guaranteed suicide methods crimes like Nembutal, suicide booths ( sarco etc) , suicide kits, someone aiding you in suicide : they made all these and more crimes.

I see the pleasurable addictions as bait that keep me hear to fall for the worst torture and worst pain imaginable.

you can't separate the fleeting pleasurable addictions from the worst pain which can be long lasting constant and unbearable pain . These are both part of the same evil one leads to the other. nobody would stay if they didn't have the pleasurable addictions : these are the bait for the most extreme torture.

And these are just 3 i have many more and could write a 1000 page book on why life is bad

I don't have the words to describe how much i despise living and existing and this evil world .
I wish i were never born.

Life is not worth the 15 hours per day working a job , chores , suffering , trying to solve problems , cleaning every damn thing, having to eat 3 time a day, groceries , to do lists .... every damn day ... then get up shower brush teeth and do it again and again every day again for 90 years. .

work all day a job ,to do lists, chores for 15 hours per day every day for 90 years for what reason? there is no objective reason

Life is not worth doing all that and risking the many horrible things diseases,old age, oppression, injustice , grief, depression, disabling accidents, stroke, cancer, extreme suffering, heartbreak , unbearable pain, kidnapping torture, , tape worm infection, tick bytes, lyme, scams, lies, heartbreak and 1000 more .

Life is not worth the unbearable pain possible ..

always hungry having to work , suffer, every every for 90 years all the time risking extreme torture all for no objective reason.

life is just cells , a machine , piece of chemistry . there is no purpose.

no one can convince me there is an objective reason why i or any human has to live even another minute or to want to live or do anything . there is no objective reasons. life is meaningless suffering. life is an evil imposition prison torture slavery

but these and many more reasons why life is horrible are summed up on top of each other to make life a nightmare

the pleasurable addictions are the most evil because it's these that keep one here to fall for the worst torture and the worst pain imaginable . a fucking sandwhich or a fucking youtube video are not worth anything much less going through extreme torture or even all this suffering and slavery. these addictions are just bait

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yeah i feel like an outcast . but i don't care. i'll never believe something just because a lot of humans do. for one thing i can't get over that a human is just cells a brain in box trapped in a body of a small animal that ages . but i've never seen anyone mention this. also that all 8 billion will die in 130 years all 8 billion alive now will be dead. how many times have we heard any of this? i never have .

Cell theory | Definition, History, Importance, Scientists, First Proposed, & Facts | Britannica

Cell theory, fundamental scientific theory of biology according to which cells are held to be the basic units of all living tissues. First proposed by German scientists Theodor Schwann and Matthias Jakob Schleiden in 1838, the theory that all plants and animals are made up of cells marked a great

www.britannica.com

some other things i think that i don't know if some people here see some of these but i know this is the only place i could post this .other places i'd get banned or irl they'd call the mental hospital on me for saying some of the things in the post .and the thing is i haven't posted a lot of what i wrote only to me on laptop. i might post that on a website . what i wrote the horror of existence

no one can convince me that there is an objective reason why i have to live another minute in this prison hell. No one can convince me that there is an objective reason to live another minute . Nor that i should want to live another minute or second .there is not an objective reason that any sentient animal has to live or should want to live. life has no objective purpose . life is meaningless .

for one thing life is just a piece of chemistry ,DNA, cells a machine.

on top of that thing there is unbearable pain so bad that it makes everything meaningless.

I'm an abomination , cells, a brain in a box, a brain that can suffer unending constant unbearable pain. trapped in these monstrous cells always hungry always needy always worried scared constantly struggling constantly working for what reason? there is no fucking reason.

So just these 3 reasons each alone show life is meaningless suffering but they sum up on top of each other because they are all part of life.

Plus they made this world a worse prison by making guaranteed suicide methods crimes like Nembutal, suicide booths ( sarco etc) , suicide kits, someone aiding you in suicide : they made all these and more crimes.

I see the pleasurable addictions as bait that keep me hear to fall for the worst torture and worst pain imaginable.

you can't separate the fleeting pleasurable addictions from the worst pain which can be long lasting constant and unbearable pain . These are both part of the same evil one leads to the other. nobody would stay if they didn't have the pleasurable addictions : these are the bait for the most extreme torture.

And these are just 3 i have many more and could write a 1000 page book on why life is bad

I don't have the words to describe how much i despise living and existing and this evil world .
I wish i were never born.

Life is not worth the 15 hours per day working a job , chores , suffering , trying to solve problems , cleaning every damn thing, having to eat 3 time a day, groceries , to do lists .... every damn day ... then get up shower brush teeth and do it again and again every day again for 90 years. .

work all day a job ,to do lists, chores for 15 hours per day every day for 90 years for what reason? there is no objective reason

Life is not worth doing all that and risking the many horrible things diseases,old age, oppression, injustice , grief, depression, disabling accidents, stroke, cancer, extreme suffering, heartbreak , unbearable pain, kidnapping torture, , tape worm infection, tick bytes, lyme, scams, lies, heartbreak and 1000 more .

Life is not worth the unbearable pain possible ..

always hungry having to work , suffer, every every for 90 years all the time risking extreme torture all for no objective reason.

life is just cells , a machine , piece of chemistry . there is no purpose.

no one can convince me there is an objective reason why i or any human has to live even another minute or to want to live or do anything . there is no objective reasons. life is meaningless suffering. life is an evil imposition prison torture slavery

but these and many more reasons why life is horrible are summed up on top of each other to make life a nightmare

the pleasurable addictions are the most evil because it's these that keep one here to fall for the worst torture and the worst pain imaginable . a fucking sandwhich or a fucking youtube video are not worth anything much less going through extreme torture or even all this suffering and slavery. these addictions are just bait

Thank you for this post. It's nice to see people who understand. Also, yeah, I also won't ever believe in something just because many people disagree with it. The fact that many people disagree with pro mortalism doesn't make it wrong. Life is a curse and an imposition. I hate at how I can't escape life. If I could get access to SN and the other drugs that accompany that, I wouldn't hesitate to end myself. Hell, I wouldn't even hesitate to jump into a river if I knew that it was deep enough and is guaranteed to actually kill me. I'm sick and tired of this life and everything that I'm forced to do within it. I'm breaking down a lot irl because I simply just can't bear it anymore and my mum pointing this out and telling me to "just be happy" makes me even more pissed. I'm nothing but a ball of anger and frustration due to life. The pleasurable addictions doesn't even mean shit to me as all I want is the cessation of my own suffering. The cessation of my suffering is better than mitigating my suffering and I'm not even able to mitigate my suffering anyway since nothing works.

I'm wishing for death every waking second and I always get angry at how it hasn't been given to me yet. Fuck, I'm just so exhausted and tired and I want a way out of here