Resource Benzodiazepines vs barbiturates - how they differ

[Rex]

Benzodiazepines vs Barbiturates - their mechanisms:

The Chloride ion channel opens and closes at intervals. Benzodiazepines increase the frequency of Chloride ion channel opening in response to GABA. That is how they are said to augment the effects of GABA.

Barbiturates however, facilitate GABA transmission by acting on the sites associated directly with the Chloride ion channel. They act by increasing the proportion of channels opening to the longest open state whilst reducing the proportion of channels opening to the shorter open states. Or in simpler words, they hold the ion channel open continuously for long periods of time.

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Lethality of Barbiturates:

When the Chloride ion channel is held open continuously like this, it allows for a nearly endless amount of sedation. That is what makes them so lethal.
(Flumazenil cannot be given to reverse barbiturate ODs. It is specific for the benzodiazepine binding sites. It does not antagonize the effects of barbiturates, GHB or ethanol).




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This info is not mine, but I remember reading years ago about the differences of the two, tried to find some info and this came up, if you go to quora[dot]com/How-barbiturates-are-different-from-Benzodiazepines the full write up is there.

Just wanted to post this for those that don't know the differences, I think the above explains it rather well on how they differ. This is why, as a benzo addict for 5years+ now, I do not feel like N will fail, although I did get 3 bottles, not 2.
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Of course feel free to discuss as I merely posted some resource info on it, if you have other insights or corrections (with sources) then do post, as I want to make information easy to understand and available for others, and I'm hoping this post helps benzo addicts see the difference and not worry so much, albeit I have been worrying myself.

 

[Rex]

I think you explanation is on point but since the Gaba receptors down-regulate after a person builds up tolerance to benzos, how can we ensure that there are sufficient receptors which are functional for the barbs to work?

There is no way for us to measure it, but that is where a 3rd bottle comes in to assure death. At least 3 bottles has got me sitting more comfortable than before.

However with benzos, it's easier to taper at higher dosages, it's when you get to the lower end of the scale it gets harder and harder, so for me personally... i would taper my benzos to a lower dose prior to CTBing, hopefully without too much of w/d hell since i'd be slowly allowing gaba to up-regulate some more... then when I've dropped to the lowest dose i can possibly handle, i think that will determine when I take it at this point, instead of setting a hard deadline/date way off into the future.

I'm confident by doing this + an extra bottle more than most people will assure peaceful death, but this is me going from info i've read and my gut feeling on it all.

 

[El Topo]

Another difference is that benzos are just posiive allosteric modulators of the GABA-A site, meaning that they increase sensitivity to GABA, but GABA is still required to activate the receptor.

Barbiturates, while being positive allosteric modulators, are also direct agonists. So even if there is no GABA present, they directly stimulate the receptor the same way GABA does. That's another reason why they're more lethal. It's pretty much impossible to die just from taking a benzo overdose.

@Rex, what's your daily benzo dosage? I take benzos for medical reasons, equivalent of 1-2 mg clonazepam per day.

 

[Rex]

Another difference is that benzos are just posiive allosteric modulators of the GABA-A site, meaning that they increase sensitivity to GABA, but GABA is still required to activate the receptor.

Barbiturates, while being positive allosteric modulators, are also direct agonists. So even if there is no GABA present, they directly stimulate the receptor the same way GABA does. That's another reason why they're more lethal. It's pretty much impossible to die just from taking a benzo overdose.

@Rex, what's your daily benzo dosage? I take benzos for medical reasons, equivalent of 1-2 mg clonazepam per day.

I honestly have no idea, I told A that i was doing 10mg clonazepam a day and 3 bottles was agreed upon.

However right now my doses are messed up, 2days ago i took 2mg... yesterday i took 6mg, today i took none so far but i've reinstated my anti depressants which seem to be helping with my racing thoughts, so im just going to take maybe 2 or 4mg each day for the next week along with my anti depressants and see how i feel.

 

[licebap]

Have you by chance researched the possibility of vomiting, ingesting too much N at once? I'd want to do it with 4 bottles of N because I want no chance of failure but at the same time I've been said this is a concrete risk. Obviously with antiemetic regimen etc.

 

[Rex]

Have you by chance researched the possibility of vomiting, ingesting too much N at once? I'd want to do it with 4 bottles of N because I want no chance of failure but at the same time I've been said this is a concrete risk. Obviously with antiemetic regimen etc.

I haven't looked into this much at all to be honest, I'd figure anti emetics and my usual benzo dose will keep me from vomiting. I ordered 3 bottles myself.

 

[itsallover]

I haven't looked into this much at all to be honest, I'd figure anti emetics and my usual benzo dose will keep me from vomiting. I ordered 3 bottles myself.

Barbiturates are much stronger and rarely used today. That's what I know.