Borderline Personality - Circumstantial?

[paul29]

The nine (9) BPD criteria, per the DSM-5:
(wording simplified)

(1) Fear of abandonment
(2) Unstable and intense relationships
(3) Unstable self-image or sense of self
(4) Impulsivity
(5) Recurrent suicidal behavior
(6) Affective instability
(7) Chronic feelings of emptiness
(8) Anger or difficulty controlling anger
(9) Paranoia or disassociation

I posit to this group that:
- These symptoms are NOT the result of personality or anything "from within";
- Rather, they are entirely reactions to external circumstances;
- Any individual - literally, anyone - will exhibit these behaviours in response to sufficiently traumatic circumstances; and,
- Chronic exposure to such circumstances will erode resilience and create maladaptive instincts, conditioning the individual to resort to these behaviours whether or not circumstances warrant.

It follows that the correct response should not be to fault the individual or the "personality", but rather to:
- Remove the sources of circumstantial damage / trauma; and,
- Immerse the individual in healthy affection until such time as their resilience is rebuilt and their instincts are re-conditioned.

This approach was arguably part of dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) as it was originally practised by its founder, Dr. Marsha Linehan, as part of a DBT whole alongside the less-important skills training - but alas, DBT has become eroded over time into skills training alone, not because skills training is what sufferers need, but rather, out of laziness and apathy, since skills training is cheap and easy to deliver, which the preceding is certainly not.

Would love reactions / opinions.

 

[oopswronglife]

I posit to this group that:
- These symptoms are NOT the result of personality or anything "from within";
- Rather, they are entirely reactions to external circumstances;
- Any individual - literally, anyone - will exhibit these behaviours in response to sufficiently traumatic circumstances; and,
- Chronic exposure to such circumstances will erode resilience and create maladaptive instincts, conditioning the individual to resort to these behaviours whether or not circumstances warrant.

I agree 100%. Personality disorders are used as a catchall excuse for normal responses to trauma and suffering. Doctors like it because it makes them feel they solved something. Many patients like it because having a label and being recognized as ill helps feel valid with an actual documented sickness rather than just being severely broken by a shit life and world.

While there would inevitably be people who were too far gone to recover, I believe your treatment idea would help most...its just people don't have access to those things. That love and stability and care.

 

[Whatever123]

I have it, in addition to severe anxiety and depression. It's fucking hell, ruined my life. I'm really at my wits' end now.

 

[your pathologist]

Ive been diagnosed with bipolar disorder
Im seeing a doctor now that suggested BPD.
Its seems to make more sense
I have all those 9 indications

 

[Time_To_Die]

I completely agree with you that the idea that BPD is the fault of the sufferer is false and immoral, and further that much of mental health "treatment" is a sham.

However, I would add to your OP that there is substantial evidence that BPD is the result of both environmental and genetic factors. The fact that much of the variability in the presence of BPD in the general population is attributable to genetic causes is affirmed by numerous long-term longitudinal studies.

I bring this up not because I disagree with the original post, but because I think it's important to recognize that one of the reasons mental illness is difficult to treat is that it is to some extent hard-coded into our DNA. I think this point is an important one to people who have suffered from mental illness for a long period of time, and may feel a degree of guilt and shame for having been unable to cure themselves.

 

[paul29]

...there is substantial evidence that BPD is the result of both environmental and genetic factors. The fact that much of the variability in the presence of BPD in the general population is attributable to genetic causes is affirmed by numerous long-term longitudinal studies... one of the reasons mental illness is difficult to treat is that it is to some extent hard-coded into our DNA.

I further posit that what we refer to as "genetic" is also circumstantial - partially inherited biologically from the parents, who themselves suffered circumstantial traumas, and partially passed on by family environment, when parents raise their children in unhealthy environments as they demonstrate the maladaptive instincts they themselves either developed or inherited.

 

[GreyMonkey]

The nine (9) BPD criteria, per the DSM-5:
(wording simplified)

(1) Fear of abandonment
(2) Unstable and intense relationships
(3) Unstable self-image or sense of self
(4) Impulsivity
(5) Recurrent suicidal behavior
(6) Affective instability
(7) Chronic feelings of emptiness
(8) Anger or difficulty controlling anger
(9) Paranoia or disassociation

I posit to this group that:
- These symptoms are NOT the result of personality or anything "from within";
- Rather, they are entirely reactions to external circumstances;
- Any individual - literally, anyone - will exhibit these behaviours in response to sufficiently traumatic circumstances; and,
- Chronic exposure to such circumstances will erode resilience and create maladaptive instincts, conditioning the individual to resort to these behaviours whether or not circumstances warrant.

It follows that the correct response should not be to fault the individual or the "personality", but rather to:
- Remove the sources of circumstantial damage / trauma; and,
- Immerse the individual in healthy affection until such time as their resilience is rebuilt and their instincts are re-conditioned.

This approach was arguably part of dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) as it was originally practised by its founder, Dr. Marsha Linehan, as part of a DBT whole alongside the less-important skills training - but alas, DBT has become eroded over time into skills training alone, not because skills training is what sufferers need, but rather, out of laziness and apathy, since skills training is cheap and easy to deliver, which the preceding is certainly not.

Would love reactions / opinions.

I completely agree. I go further to suggest that all mental health afflictions are an inability to cope with the level of stress (trauma) presented to an individual.

When stress is greater than the resilience required to meet it then we have issues that arise on a continuum. Sadly the early traumatic circumstances are often the crucial times for building resilience such that many kids don't really stand a chance, especially if they have a more sensitive temperament.

Something like:
Anxiety -> depression -> BPD -> schizophrenia

I also posit that there is another continuum that is generally much more socially functional yet just as mentally dysfunctional that looks something like:
Aggression -> narcissism -> sociopathy -> psychopathy

The first I think of as hypoarousal whereas the second is more of a hyperarousal continuum of dysfunction.

I also agree that warm affection: belonging and the co-regulation that occurs in it is necessary to soothe and heal the frayed psyche (biological, emotional, psychological and spiritual). Add to that is also needed a source of purpose and position to meaningfully contribute.

I reckon most mental health conditions could be resolved with enough care and purpose. Yet the time and expenditure to set up such systems, and the level of patience of the supports is probably beyond our current social capacity to provide to any real degree yet.

I completely agree with you that the idea that BPD is the fault of the sufferer is false and immoral, and further that much of mental health "treatment" is a sham.

However, I would add to your OP that there is substantial evidence that BPD is the result of both environmental and genetic factors. The fact that much of the variability in the presence of BPD in the general population is attributable to genetic causes is affirmed by numerous long-term longitudinal studies.

I bring this up not because I disagree with the original post, but because I think it's important to recognize that one of the reasons mental illness is difficult to treat is that it is to some extent hard-coded into our DNA. I think this point is an important one to people who have suffered from mental illness for a long period of time, and may feel a degree of guilt and shame for having been unable to cure themselves.

I would say this genetic predisposition shows itself in the same way as biological predispositions do.

I.e. someone genetically predisposed to heart disease, when the body is under enough stress/damage, say a poor diet, smoking, drinking and no exercise, then the manifestation of illness is going to occur as heart disease. Whereas for another individual it may be bowel cancer.

However same individual lives a healthy life with minimal biological stress, then the manifestation of heart disease is much less likely to present itself.

I think the same with mental illness. Remove the circumstantial stress (trauma) and we will have a much more well adjusted, resilient and capable individual.

 

[Rollo]

It follows that the correct response should not be to fault the individual or the "personality", but rather to:
- Remove the sources of circumstantial damage / trauma; and,
- Immerse the individual in healthy affection until such time as their resilience is rebuilt and their instincts are re-conditioned.

But we live in a hive filled with sources of circumstantional damage. How do you remove it all? And same for immersion in healthy affection. How do you do it unless you're billionaire who can afford renting an island with staff tasked with being nice to him? And even if you manage to pull it off - how do you see your instincts being re-conditioned? Are they going to recondition by themselves or some effort on your part will be required?

 

[8yy8uiyhbij]

I have quite a nice background, with little trauma and a supportive family, however I have BPD.

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

I like the idea of being an ok person deep down and 'just' ( ha ha ) having to disentangle / clean off the muck of our
past's and shitty experiences .

For those of us not taught to self care / self nurture ... people who believe they are somehow 'just wrong' ...
that is a big mission .
The most helpful people in my life have been the 'uncondirional love ' suppliers for just that reason .

It's ok Temporarilyabsurd ... you are ok .
I never believe it but it's always a welcome input .

I am so BPD I am majorly in denial about it .

I think it's an ache inside where that unconditional love should have been .

An absence of love in almost all aspects of life to begin with ... parents family society ...
then one just accepts the role of outcast and it sucks,

( I wouldn't want to belong to a team that had me as a member . - Woody Allan )

 

[GreyMonkey]

I have quite a nice background, with little trauma and a supportive family, however I have BPD.

Doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't traumatic. For a sensitive child a lack of emotional attunement or connection from parents is experienced as emotional neglect and is traumatic to a baby.

Other small things like a younger sibling being born and losing attention, moving houses or country or school, bullying in school, early surgeries, and so on can all add up as shocks to a psyche and result in an overburdened system that then responds in distress and inability to self regulate.

 

[Squiddy]

I have BPD in addition to bipolar and anxiety

 

[eve2004]

The nine (9) BPD criteria, per the DSM-5:
(wording simplified)

(1) Fear of abandonment
(2) Unstable and intense relationships
(3) Unstable self-image or sense of self
(4) Impulsivity
(5) Recurrent suicidal behavior
(6) Affective instability
(7) Chronic feelings of emptiness
(8) Anger or difficulty controlling anger
(9) Paranoia or disassociation

I posit to this group that:
- These symptoms are NOT the result of personality or anything "from within";
- Rather, they are entirely reactions to external circumstances;
- Any individual - literally, anyone - will exhibit these behaviours in response to sufficiently traumatic circumstances; and,
- Chronic exposure to such circumstances will erode resilience and create maladaptive instincts, conditioning the individual to resort to these behaviours whether or not circumstances warrant.

It follows that the correct response should not be to fault the individual or the "personality", but rather to:
- Remove the sources of circumstantial damage / trauma; and,
- Immerse the individual in healthy affection until such time as their resilience is rebuilt and their instincts are re-conditioned.

This approach was arguably part of dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) as it was originally practised by its founder, Dr. Marsha Linehan, as part of a DBT whole alongside the less-important skills training - but alas, DBT has become eroded over time into skills training alone, not because skills training is what sufferers need, but rather, out of laziness and apathy, since skills training is cheap and easy to deliver, which the preceding is certainly not.

Would love reactions / opinions.

I totally agree! That was well said/explained.

I have some of those symptoms now but have never had them before becoming widowed and subsequently diagnosed with MDD and a host of other bereavement disorders.

How can trauma NOT cause these reactions in people? Even worse so in those without a more than solid social support system. I read an article about a successful business woman whose husband passed away and she wrote a book about it. I'm sure there are relevant parts but not everyone has the support she has, especially being well known... like you said, anyone experiencing trauma or circumstances that significantly affect their lives can exhibit any or many of those symptoms. Worse if you add loneliness and zero social support to the equation...

No wonder so many people want to CTB. Being diagnosed with a personality disorder implies that you probably always had it and always will. At least MDD and complex bereavement shit there's a chance it can be overcome... you are so right about this. I never saw it this way. I hate my life but right now I'm so mad for all those people diagnosed wrongly because of life circumstances. Not to mention that the label is so stigmatizing.

But we live in a hive filled with sources of circumstantional damage. How do you remove it all? And same for immersion in healthy affection. How do you do it unless you're billionaire who can afford renting an island with staff tasked with being nice to him? And even if you manage to pull it off - how do you see your instincts being re-conditioned? Are they going to recondition by themselves or some effort on your part will be required?

There are different levels of circumstantial damage. And everyone reacts differently. My life was far from perfect before my husband died but that was particularly significant compared to the other losses/failures I experienced previously.

There's no blanket statement that applies to everyone all the time but I think the OP is trying to bring up the fact that *some* people are wrongly diagnosed for the reasons she listed. I don't think the OP meant that this disorder does not really exist. For some people, childhood trauma was the reason which means they've had those symptoms for longer than someone whose trauma happened in their mid-30s or later... for the latter population, they are more inclined, I think, that it can be overcome seeing as it did not affect them earlier in life. For those who have been living with it since childhood, it makes sense that they would feel like it cannot be fixed especially if they are told it is part of their personality and a life-long disorder to cope with.

I'm not familiar with what it takes to work on those issues in terms of therapy... I'm sure it is very trying and often discouraging. Much love to those who are going through it.

 

[paul29]

But we live in a hive filled with sources of circumstantional damage. How do you remove it all?

You have to change the world.

We, the ones who get it, will have to do it together.

Perhaps we'll become billionaires in the process. Then we can buy islands and staff.

 

[Black_Knight]

LIKE LIKE LIKE MEGA LIKE
thank you for your rare sanity and your ability to vocalize it

 

[Winter_Flower]

I was diagnosed with EUPD/BPD too. Since then it's been the biggest stigma regarding my mental health. It's amazing how different you get treated in the nhs with this label. I have this along with anxiety and depression. Mine is through severe trauma as a child x

 

[GreyMonkey]

You have to change the world.

We, the ones who get it, will have to do it together.

Perhaps we'll become billionaires in the process. Then we can buy islands and staff.

It's a pretty big upheaval. And sadly the kind of infrastructure needed to really help those who need it most is likely out of financial reach to receive for those who need it most.

How do you envision such a thing occurring?

And what is your personal story, why are you on this site?

 

[paul29]

How do you envision such a thing occurring?

And what is your personal story, why are you on this site?

The answer to both questions - with apologies for the commercial link -

OUR BEGINNINGS | Home/Cfusion Cannabis INFUSION Kit

www.cfusion.ca

 

[GreyMonkey]

The answer to both questions - with apologies for the commercial link -

OUR BEGINNINGS | Home/Cfusion Cannabis INFUSION Kit

www.cfusion.ca

Ah ok.

I was a long term weed user. I think it's part of my problem.

 

[Rollo]

There are different levels of circumstantial damage. And everyone reacts differently. My life was far from perfect before my husband died but that was particularly significant compared to the other losses/failures I experienced previously.

There's no blanket statement that applies to everyone all the time but I think the OP is trying to bring up the fact that *some* people are wrongly diagnosed for the reasons she listed. I don't think the OP meant that this disorder does not really exist. For some people, childhood trauma was the reason which means they've had those symptoms for longer than someone whose trauma happened in their mid-30s or later... for the latter population, they are more inclined, I think, that it can be overcome seeing as it did not affect them earlier in life. For those who have been living with it since childhood, it makes sense that they would feel like it cannot be fixed especially if they are told it is part of their personality and a life-long disorder to cope with.

I'm not familiar with what it takes to work on those issues in terms of therapy... I'm sure it is very trying and often discouraging. Much love to those who are going through it.

To be honest I personally don't believe this disorder exists. I mean disorders do exist but here they just mixed a bunch of notions, some of which are vague ('unstable sense of self'), others are commonplace like 'impulsivity', 'anger', 'unstable relationships' etc. Honestly it looks like they payed a random bum on the street and told him 'write 9 things that sound kinda like a guy is having some emotional issues'. He wrote 10 things but they still liked number 9, so they had to squeze 2 notions under 9th. Voila.

Still some disorder obviously does exist, otherwise OP wouldn't believe his instincts need re-conditioning.

You have to change the world.

We, the ones who get it, will have to do it together.

Perhaps we'll become billionaires in the process. Then we can buy islands and staff.

If you changed the world already then you don't need island with staff. Whole world became your island with staff.

 

[Dawn0071111]

BPD is often misdiagnosed for circumstancial abuse victims particularly from Narcissitc Abuse. Which is what brought me here. Be careful what dignoses or labels you accept.

Could you be mistaken for having BPD after NPD abuse?

Answer (1 of 12): This question is beyond important and extremely insightful. I am currently writing a thesis on this topic and will share with you what I have discovered and what I believe during my research and experience. The answer is 100% YES. I believe about 80% of those diagnosed with bor...

www.quora.com

Child Abuse victims often misdiagnosed with BPD instead of C-PTSD

IF YOU HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH BPD, take time to investigate your own forensic psychology -- especially if

flyingmonkeysdenied.com

 

[eve2004]

I'm sure everyone in humanity has exhibited a handful of those symptoms at some point in the lives... most have nothing wrong with them but had they consulted a psych they would have been traumatized for life instead of just believing it would pass... or simply outgrowing it etc...

 

[bunny]

skills-based therapy groups should be destroyed. they're reductive and a complete waste of time.

i hate healthcare and psychiatry so much for promoting such garbage.

 

[IsadoraBeauxdraps]

They told me I have that.

 

[mathieu]

I have all those symptoms and I had a happy childhood. No trauma, other than getting bullied in high school. I've been diagnosed with BPD before but more often they say I'm bipolar or schizoaffective.

 

[GreyMonkey]

I have all those symptoms and I had a happy childhood. No trauma, other than getting bullied in high school. I've been diagnosed with BPD before but more often they say I'm bipolar or schizoaffective.

Sometimes it's not as happy as we think. Lack of emotional attunement by primary caregiver, moving houses or schools often, loss of significant attachment figures, and many more slight things can be enough to create enough toxic stress in our system.

Also in utero experiences of mother impacts too. Was she happy and excited or didn't really want us? Was she anxious? Anything bad happen then? All that kind of stuff can take a toll on a little developing brain.

 

[mathieu]

Sometimes it's not as happy as we think. Lack of emotional attunement by primary caregiver, moving houses or schools often, loss of significant attachment figures, and many more slight things can be enough to create enough toxic stress in our system.

Also in utero experiences of mother impacts too. Was she happy and excited or didn't really want us? Was she anxious? Anything bad happen then? All that kind of stuff can take a toll on a little developing brain.

Well there was some turbulence. My parents got divorced when I was 9 or 10. My dad has a mental illness and that did affect me. Was never quite good enough for him.

 

[GreyMonkey]

Well there was some turbulence. My parents got divorced when I was 9 or 10. My dad has a mental illness and that did affect me. Was never quite good enough for him.

Being shamed as an early child (you aren't good enough) is a form of abuse.

What form does your bipolar play out? Do you self hate?

Not that digging into the past really helps that much.

 

[mathieu]

Being shamed as an early child (you aren't good enough) is a form of abuse.

What form does your bipolar play out? Do you self hate?

Not that digging into the past really helps that much.

I do hate myself yes. I think that started with the bullying. My bipolar is mostly just depression, although I've had manic and psychotic episodes.

 

[8yy8uiyhbij]

Doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't traumatic. For a sensitive child a lack of emotional attunement or connection from parents is experienced as emotional neglect and is traumatic to a baby.

Other small things like a younger sibling being born and losing attention, moving houses or country or school, bullying in school, early surgeries, and so on can all add up as shocks to a psyche and result in an overburdened system that then responds in distress and inability to self regulate.

I'm very sorry for my late reply.

I can't recall any early trauma, I did move house a lot, being the youngest I was blamed for many small things such as stealing and breaking items. I was self-educated until the age of 8, however I was still blamed for stealing and lying. That may have played a part.