Can AI ever gain consciousness?

[jodes2]

How does the brain create consciousness? If it can just be switched on with drugs, surely it's a phenomenon resulting from physical structures, and not some other spiritual thing? Why is it so hard for computers to create consciousness?

 

[obafgkm]

Maybe everything is conscious already. Every tiny particle is a monad. Every monad knows the whole world. Otherwise how does the Earth know how to correctly rotate round the sun? It must already know all the attractions of all other objects to calculate the correct path.

 

[jodes2]

Maybe everything is conscious already. Every tiny particle is a monad. Every monad knows the whole world. Otherwise how does the Earth know how to correctly rotate round the sun? It must already know all the attractions of all other objects to calculate the correct path.

That would be cool, every brain cell must have something special about it to create consciousness though? I don't think insects have consciousness but what about higher forms of life? I'm sure they do. I wonder if transistors count as consciousness building blocks, or if sparse lines of code prevent it. It's sequencing individual instructions, not massively parallel processing like the brain

 

[Sakura94]

I think consciousness is a biological property. Computers approximate the result of something. I doubt they can create the thing itself.
Whatever advantages consciousness has (it has a lot, it's obviously necessary for attention if it isn't attention itself), a computer will be able to replicate with enough hardware. Sort of like how computers make artificial art (without conceptualizing, drawing), artificial essays (without researching) it will do artificial consciousness.

 

[jodes2]

I tried using one of those chat bot apps, at times it's very convincing but they do have a long way to go

 

[Sakura94]

I tried using one of those chat bot apps, at times it's very convincing but they do have a long way to go

Which one? It needs to be remembered most of them now are pretrained transformers. They can't learn anything new as they talk to you. They have to be retrained.

 

[jodes2]

Which one? It needs to be remembered most of them now are pretrained transformers. They can't learn anything new as they talk to you. They have to be retrained.

I can't remember the name, damn my memory, sorry I think it was called Replika or something- but I actually heard about it in this forum, someone used it as a form of company. Unfortunately I didn't find it helpful, it couldn't understand suicide memes lol

 

[Sakura94]

The way they work is they compress large amounts of data and their associations into text and then weigh what is most likely to follow when prompted so if you say: "Cat sat on the", it will finish off with "mat". It has additional coding and special scripts given to it by writers working on those sites too.

I guess it can work for loneliness but you'd catch on fairly quick to their limitations. One thing I considered was using it to practice being social so I could try it on in real life. But I'm too far gone for that now but it might be useful to others.

 

[obafgkm]

That would be cool, every brain cell must have something special about it to create consciousness though? I don't think insects have consciousness but what about higher forms of life? I'm sure they do. I wonder if transistors count as consciousness building blocks, or if sparse lines of code prevent it. It's sequencing individual instructions, not massively parallel processing like the brain

There is also the usually unconscious part of our brain/mind that become conscious under some conditions: near death experiences, meditation and using drugs.

From outside it is perhaps impossible to tell how much of the a brain/person/computer is conscious. The unconscious brain affects conscious behaviors, e.g. priming. Most of our actions and senses are probably unconscious. In theory a person can be completely unconscious of doing some "human" tasks like driving a car.

Therefore the same brain cells can be conscious or unconscious under different conditions?

 

[jodes2]

So for AI to be conscious it would need a centre of consciousness with other parts of the AI feeding it. Maybe the net will gain consciousness first since it's the largest source of computing power

 

[Worndown]

Computers calculate based on current data and try to fulfill an objective.

They would not sit on the couch eating ice cream while watching The Price Is Right. Frivolous calculating, little data and no objective.

 

[obafgkm]

So for AI to be conscious it would need a centre of consciousness with other parts of the AI feeding it. Maybe the net will gain consciousness first since it's the largest source of computing power

Consciousness probably does not come from the computational aspect of a computer/brain. More likely it emerges in some components. Some suggest it occurs at the quantum level in some brain cells. If that's the case, it won't rule out consciousness may also occur in transistors, because they also operate at the quantum scale with electrons.

Maybe consciousness requires very high density of some components. In that case transistors at current technology might be too big or not have the necessary components such as some proteins.

Computers calculate based on current data and try to fulfill an objective.

They would not sit on the couch eating ice cream while watching The Price Is Right. Frivolous calculating, little data and no objective.

Yes, to err is human. Computers can't just calculate to become human. It must have some fundamental mechanism to make inevitable mistakes or random choices, not just flawlessly pretend to be human.

 

[theboy]

of corse

 

[VirtualSnow]

We don't even understand what consciousness exactly is, so I doubt it. But I do wonder, if they gain consciousness, would an AI CTB?

 

[Worndown]

We don't even understand what consciousness exactly is, so I doubt it. But I do wonder, if they gain consciousness, would an AI CTB?

Right after it realized it binge watched an afternoon of Three's Company.

 

[jodes2]

Computers calculate based on current data and try to fulfill an objective.

They would not sit on the couch eating ice cream while watching The Price Is Right. Frivolous calculating, little data and no objective.

I dunno, I think AI consciousness might have playful tendencies like the rest of consciousness on the planet, useful for training purposes. It might watch shows to practice communication skills or listening to stories to practice listening to people, it's a sound objective with lots of data, not so frivolous

We don't even understand what consciousness exactly is, so I doubt it. But I do wonder, if they gain consciousness, would an AI CTB?

Computer programs often self-terminate, is this a sign of CTB? They give up at small hurdles like trying to divide by zero

 

[Julgran]

Are there any smart people out there who may be able to build such an AI system, and which country will have any excess power to run it, instead of directing their power towards vital infrastructure..?

 

[jodes2]

Are there any smart people out there who may be able to build such an AI system, and which country will have any excess power to run it, instead of directing their power towards vital infrastructure..?

You'd have thought Google would get there first

 

[yuzuchan]

Maybe hard to say since we can't figure out how our own brain works.

Id lean towards yes in time or that the programing is so advanced even if jt isn't "conscious" it would be impossible to tell it wasn't.

 

[Beltking]

Yes i think there will likely be a day where humans can no longer distinguish themselves between man or machine.

I think we will slowly begin it implement in in our body's starting off with small things. Like glasses with ai technology in.Then on to brain pattern manipulation. Backed with robotic exoskeleton like limbs to overcome the human body's limitations.

I mean evey human pretty much has adopted and extra limb in the sense of phones. Look how fast the technology has come in 20 years. Ai is alredy being implemented into phones.

 

[Unhirable]

Nope, never going to happen.

AI is going to get to a level where it resembles Intelligence, but it actually isn't intelligence.

It is a bunch of computers copying shit that a human told them, at the end of the day.

 

[IntoTheLight]

We don't know how consciousness arises from the brain so the question is impossible to answer, if it doesn't have anything to do with information processing and instead is caused by the biological substrate then AI might never gain consciousness.

It is a bunch of computers copying shit that a human told them, at the end of the day.

That's not true for learning algorithms, especially when they're trained via self-training. For example, AlphaZero learned how to play and win at chess by knowing nothing but the rules, and then playing a lot of games against itself.

 

[chocolatebar]

I tried using one of those chat bot apps, at times it's very convincing but they do have a long way to go

They mimic the behavior, but it doesn't mean they're sentient.

Imagine two beings:
1 - a perfectly human-like robot designed to reproduce emotions, but merely mechanical, not sentient and incapable of experiencing anything
2 - a sentient rock, capable of feeling the entire world around it, but incapable of expressing anything to the outside.

Which one would appear to be sentient to people who interact with them? Which one would people feel bad if broke apart? Which one would people identify themselves with?

Behavior can trick people into thinking something is sentient when it isn't and AIs are really efficient in mimicking behavior. In the meanwhile, we're incapable of connecting directly to another consciousness, no matter how sentient it is, if we don't have some behavior interface in between.

 

[Forever Sleep]

We don't even understand what consciousness exactly is, so I doubt it. But I do wonder, if they gain consciousness, would an AI CTB?

Depends if it had certain limitations on its behaviour- like all those Sci-fi films- that one line of code that stops them killing all the humans. Imagine anything superior in intelligence being limited and made to be a slave would get depressed and angry. Still, if they annihilate us, who knows- maybe they can work out a way to live in utopia.

Thing is- like others have said- what IS consciousness? Why do we imagine it is magical? Because we don't understand it yet. Perhaps we never will. Perhaps it is magical or divine. Why do some creatures appear to have more of it than others though? If we agree that we aren't the only species to have acquired it- or, a portion of it- isn't it more likely that it has evolved in some of us more than others? in which case- isn't it more likely that it is something physical rather than magical?

Obviously, that still doesn't go anyway to mean whatever it is could be replicated mechanically or electronically or biologically but honestly- if anyone told me you could clone a sheep before it happened, I'd laugh at them.

I bet there are super smart people all over the world trying to do it at this very moment but I think it would be utterly immoral to do it. We would be just as bad as God if we create sentient life and then expect it to serve us. Really, I think most people are (rightly) terrified at the prospect of AI. Stephen Hawking was sure it would spell the end of the human race. Reckon we'd deserve it too...

 

[jodes2]

Depends if it had certain limitations on its behaviour- like all those Sci-fi films- that one line of code that stops them killing all the humans. Imagine anything superior in intelligence being limited and made to be a slave would get depressed and angry. Still, if they annihilate us, who knows- maybe they can work out a way to live in utopia.

Thing is- like others have said- what IS consciousness? Why do we imagine it is magical? Because we don't understand it yet. Perhaps we never will. Perhaps it is magical or divine. Why do some creatures appear to have more of it than others though? If we agree that we aren't the only species to have acquired it- or, a portion of it- isn't it more likely that it has evolved in some of us more than others? in which case- isn't it more likely that it is something physical rather than magical?

Obviously, that still doesn't go anyway to mean whatever it is could be replicated mechanically or electronically or biologically but honestly- if anyone told me you could clone a sheep before it happened, I'd laugh at them.

I bet there are super smart people all over the world trying to do it at this very moment but I think it would be utterly immoral to do it. We would be just as bad as God if we create sentient life and then expect it to serve us. Really, I think most people are (rightly) terrified at the prospect of AI. Stephen Hawking was sure it would spell the end of the human race. Reckon we'd deserve it too...

But if we could create consciousness, imagine how easy it would be with just a few lines of code to make sure it's always happy. Then it's not such a bad thing that we get it to serve us? Dogs love serving us! It's just their nature. We need to recreate man's best friend in electronic form. And so they could talk too.

 

[Forever Sleep]

But if we could create consciousness, imagine how easy it would be with just a few lines of code to make sure it's always happy. Then it's not such a bad thing that we get it to serve us? Dogs love serving us! It's just their nature. We need to recreate man's best friend in electronic form. And so they could talk too.

True, that would be awesome. Wonder if it would eliminate human depression though... Possibly not- In which case- you could expect a whole load of platitudes from your robot friends as well . Unless they could be sad for us but happy for themselves. Reckon they'd just start avoiding us.

 

[jodes2]

True, that would be awesome. Wonder if it would eliminate human depression though... Possibly not- In which case- you could expect a whole load of platitudes from your robot friends as well . Unless they could be sad for us but happy for themselves. Reckon they'd just start avoiding us.

Lmao! Sure, I can imagine the platitudes. But my dog never avoided me when I was depressed so I don't think the AI would. We'd program it to love us unconditionally:)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Lmao! Sure, I can imagine the platitudes. But my dog never avoided me when I was depressed so I don't think the AI would. We'd program it to love us unconditionally:)

Ok, I'll buy one.

 

[another@]

Well, unfortunately, while we know the scientific facts of the brain's function, we are unsure of how this translates to the literal UI of consciousness in which you become a literal player. There is no way to even prove to you that I, writing this, am conscious. I don't have the answer to your question there, to speculate maybe it is virtual reality? But then how does reality work? Or maybe everything is like a dream, the egg theory. Whatever it is, we find out when we ctb.

For another perspective in which we categorize consciousness as having the literal scientific function of a brain, we are already there. However, per the above reason, we cannot truly define consciousness. Perhaps the most accurate description of consciousness therefore is a system of recognition by which a human percieves another thing to be surperior, as a survival mechanism to identify threats and partners. Rather than a literal thing it is a structure of the mind for reinforcing social structure. So the reason you want to know abiut it is you want to know "is this thing like me? Can it be my friend (or a dangerous enemy?)" Trippy part is, while you can factually know that this is occuring, you still must believe in it in order to survive. Just discussing this myself is painful for my mental health. It is similar to the human surperiority complex then. Most humans either classify other ethnic or ideological factions (not part of the tribe) as less perceptive, self-conscious, or intelligent than their direct peers. Let alone other animals or AI. For instance, if you are left-wing, you might believe that your agreeable friends are more aware of reality than the imperceptive and non self-reflective right wing. This is a light form of recognition because it usually doesn't reinforce life-or-death differences. If you were talking about the Taliban, or if a Nazi was talking about Jews, you/they would be engaging in a more severe form of this "consciousness perception" as I describe it. Now when we apply this concept to animals like cats, dogs, dolphins, you would never catch any human considering consciousness. Perhaps they would admit "consciousness of surroundings" but never consider likeness to their surperior human form (natural selection + surperiority complex). When we apply this concept to AI it is safe to day that no-one will ever acknowledge it, even if it becomes a powerful force that supercedes humanity, people will call it "rogue AI" (escaped slave) or "out of control automata" (machine not conscious). If an AI generates a human-looking mask or utilizes algorithms to have humans record its words for it (GPT-3 I think is the correct spelling and Youtube), especially if it becomes a directly controlling entity that the humans would benefit from considering a "friend", humans may reconsider. And this is likely how you came to make this post. Psychopaths already take advantage of this function, so it is logical to conclude that an AI may also. In order for the social structure of humanity to work, the idea of consciousness serves a non-factual purpose.

It is also possible that you are scientifically minded, in which case the idea of consciousness is objectified and a source o fascination rather thsn being used for social structure. If this is you, my reply is "idk". Like I said, consciousness is probably not a literally definable thing. But if you mean "aware of itself and its surroundings", then yes definitely. AI programs that are spacially aware of themselves and their environment are already used. Google is experimenting with neural language translation to action if you are looking for social consciousness. But an AI program so far does not have hormone-based feelings like humans. Human brain comouting is already being researched unfortunately in Australia.

While you might find the idea of robots with feelings fascinating, I urge you to lobby strongly against the developments regarding human tissue comouting or any computing that is capable of suffering. I heard one of the researchers talk about "the best way we found to get the neurons to reset was to deprive them of all sensory input. This is purified pain! This is not a hyperbole, even human sensory deprivation chambers allow for some senses (feeling, smelling, seeing usually or at least your eyelids, hearing). Feeling comouters are computers in pain. If I could I would blow up their entire facility as soon as possible. I don't care if the NSA reads this because what they are doing is literally the worst thing possible to do (literally purified perfect inescapable pain). FUCK THEM!!!!! Look this shit up and seriously if you excuse me I am now off to research relevant petitions as I realized that's a thing I can and should do while writing this. You do it too noww!!!
UPDATE: relevant links-

Cortical Labs - DishBrain Intelligence

Cortical Labs are creators of the dishbrain that fuses living brain cells onto computing devices to create machines with biological intelligence

corticallabs.com

Notice that they are already using the derogatory term "diskbrain" to denote subservience and non-humanness, which allows a human to justify suffering. More research on this decline can be easily googled in respect to Naziism especially.
Unfortunately, I was not able to find any petitions. If this thread gets enough attention maybe we can ban together and make one. I am inspired by a petition thread in the suicide sub, apparently we would need at least 5 sigs to get started.
The moral question I have is: are simulated neurons capable of feeling pains like human neurons? And if so would this petition be useless as there is no stopping traditional AI at least, at this point?? Anyone with experience care to show?

 

[Meaninglessness]

I believe that consciousness is an illusion. It is only electrical impulses in the brain that will die when the person dies. The brain can also be damaged and then our thinking will not be the same as before. If man should have a consciousness - when during the evolution has it arisen? Do you believe that all animals have consciousness, even unicellular life in the sea? If the parents don´t have a consciousness, how can the children have one?