Cyanide is more deadly than SN?

[Fardarmist]

There's a lot more information on SN online than cyanide. Although for SN. Lethal amount is upwards of 6 grams and I've heard of plenty of people taking 20 to 25 grams and still living 20 to 40 minutes after.

As for potassium cyanide or sodium cyanide specifically John Hopkins university says 100 to 200 mg is the lethal amount which is severely less. But what I'm not understanding is It seems to be relatively easy to purchase online in the states.

 

[DrinkyCrow]

Im no expert but convulsing for a few minutes before loosing consciousness is what would put me off a bit. But I'm also not a possum nor a scientist, so I'm not sure how this translates into humans .

Edit: does few undesirable signs from the welfare perspective means it's somewhat peaceful?

 

[Fardarmist]

View attachment 151348
Im no expert but convulsing for a few minutes before loosing consciousness is what would put me off a bit. But I'm also not a possum nor a scientist, so I'm not sure how this translates into humans .

Edit: does few undesirable signs from the welfare perspective means it's somewhat peaceful?

I don't know how that's all that different from SN and being alive for 40 minutes feeling yourself dying from SN vs cyanide at 6.5 minutes.

 

[justkatie]

Cyanide from what I've read is a painful death over several hours.
The myth we see in spy movies where a captured spy takes it, froths at the mouth and dies instantly doesn't match real evidence where people didnt die "peacefully"

SN if everything works sends you into unconsciousness within 20-30 minutes where you die from a lack of oxygen to the brain over the next hour or two.

If I'm wrong here I am wrong and please do correct me.

As for efficacy, I don't know. As always with toxic chemicals, it depends on a wide variety of factors.

 

[DrinkyCrow]

I don't know how that's all that different from SN and being alive for 40 minutes feeling yourself dying from SN vs cyanide at 6.5 minutes.

Im not part of the SN Fan crowd for a multitude of reasons. My questions are purely based on curiosity and to find out if that's maybe an option for me.

Cyanide from what I've read is a painful death over several hours.
The myth we see in spy movies where a captured spy takes it, froths at the mouth and dies instantly doesn't match real evidence where people didnt die "peacefully"

That's also what i remember I found about it at some point and never really looked any deeper into it really afterwards.

 

[Worndown]

You cannot order cyanide and get it delivered to your home.
You need to balance speed, comfort and availability when choosing a method.

 

[Fardarmist]

Cyanide from what I've read is a painful death over several hours.
The myth we see in spy movies where a captured spy takes it, froths at the mouth and dies instantly doesn't match real evidence where people didnt die "peacefully"

SN if everything works sends you into unconsciousness within 20-30 minutes where you die from a lack of oxygen to the brain over the next hour or two.

If I'm wrong here I am wrong and please do correct me.

As for efficacy, I don't know. As always with toxic chemicals, it depends on a wide variety of factors.

Is 200 mg is lethal for cyanide yet 6 g is lethal for SN. Cyanide might make you feel a little different, but you could easily overpower yourself with well beyond the 200 mg threshold to ensure a faster and stronger response. It has on your body before it's lights out for you.

You cannot order cyanide and get it delivered to your home.
You need to balance speed, comfort and availability when choosing a method.

Found a website for research purposes that just didn't require any business specific information and would just ship it to me
Info

 

[mrpeter]

Cyanide from what I've read is a painful death over several hours.
The myth we see in spy movies where a captured spy takes it, froths at the mouth and dies instantly doesn't match real evidence where people didnt die "peacefully"

SN if everything works sends you into unconsciousness within 20-30 minutes where you die from a lack of oxygen to the brain over the next hour or two.

If I'm wrong here I am wrong and please do correct me.

As for efficacy, I don't know. As always with toxic chemicals, it depends on a wide variety of factors.

some reports say its peaceful and some say its painful it is considered reliable though but some people have lived or taken several days to die though some have died only within a few minutes i believe the dose is important


anyones opinion on combining sn and cyanide?

 

[cowboypants]

Cyanide is said to be painful and slower than SN, takes like a couple of hours.

PPH 2022 book has a dedicated chapter on cyanide.

 

[eashanm]

Cyanide kills you within minutes. And has very high lethality.

 

[mrpeter]

Cyanide is said to be painful and slower than SN, takes like a couple of hours.

PPH 2022 book has a dedicated chapter on cyanide.

people have died within 6 minutes of taking cyanide i think it depends on the dose

 

[Fardarmist]

people have died within 6 minutes of taking cyanide i think it depends on the dose

Thing is there are a considerable number of cyanides out there. But I kind of have to believe John Hopkins university is pretty top notch medical university. 200mg of sodium or potassium cyanide is lethal vs 6 grams of SN is a huge dosage difference.

 

[mrpeter]

Thing is there are a considerable number of cyanides out there. But I kind of have to believe John Hopkins university is pretty top notch medical university. 200mg of sodium or potassium cyanide is lethal vs 6 grams of SN is a huge dosage difference.

cyanide is more painful i believe while soidum nirtite just takes longer so both have pros and cons

 

[Intoxicated]

cyanide is more painful

Proofs?

 

[kat6]

anyones opinion on combining sn and cyanide?

Ironically, SN is one of the antidotes used to treat cyanide poisoning.

As far as how painful it is, I don't know. But from my research, whether consumed orally or inhaled as gas, it burns like hell, and causes severe neurological symptoms before death. It causes bradycardia, spasms, potential paralysis and intense feeling of suffocation, as the neuro symptoms affect your respiration and prevent you from expelling carbon dioxide (where the suffocation feeling comes from). I saw a video once of a poor goat who ingested cyanide. She was convulsing and groaning and foaming at the mouth. It was horrible.

At high concentrations, cyanide gas allegedly can cause instant death, but it is a very volatile chemical, can be absorbed through the skin as well as inhaled, flammable at room temperature and presents a great danger to innocent people around you.

Cyanide gas (hcn) was used by the evil Nazis in their gas chambers and used by the US on at least one death penalty execution. Just look up those cases and the witness accounts of what the victims of the gas experienced. It was horrific.

 

[mrpeter]

Proofs?

there are some reports of painful deaths in peaceful pill and final exit

 

[hematomatema]

AFAIK, cyanide is exceptionally painful. It's not quick. You do not lose consciousness (relatively) fast. You suffer a long, agonising death as your body becomes incapable of respiring. It's probably the least recommended thing to consume for CTBing for that reason. I don't think I can think of anything worse, actually. With SN, some instances of attempts are painful, but the majority aren't, or are at least minimally so. I have never personally heard of a peaceful death by cyanide though - all accounts sound gruesome as they can get.

 

[eashanm]

Completely disagree. You lose your conciousness within 1 minute of ingesting cyanide

 

[L'absent]

Real cyanide is very fast. But it's also painful. About 2 minutes old. But where do you find it?

 

[Intoxicated]

But from my research, whether consumed orally or inhaled as gas, it burns like hell

Any references?

and causes severe neurological symptoms before death.

Only those happening before loss of consciousness really matter.

there are some reports of painful deaths in peaceful pill and final exit

Those painful deaths may be related to not following an optimal protocol. I'll quote what PPeH 2022 actually says:

Most accounts of death from cyanide poisoning come from witnesses to gas chamber executions where the (unwilling) prisoner inhaled HCN. One study undertaken at San Quentin prison showed that, on average, consciousness was lost within one to three minutes, with death occurring after nine minutes. These deaths were often peaceful with the prisoner falling quickly asleep.

On some occasions, however, a violent (and presumably painful) death was observed.

Eyewitness accounts of seriously ill people drinking dissolved cyanide salt are also mixed. In his book Final Exit, Derek Humphry describes deaths that are quick and painless. But he also documents one unexplained account that refers to a death that was 'miserable and violent, marked frequent tetanic convulsions while awake'.

Toxicology texts of 'death by cyanide' commonly refer to a rapid collapse and loss of consciousness if a large enough dose is absorbed.

 

[Talvikki]

Michael James Marin was an American financier, lawyer, ex-Wall Street trader, and millionaire who died by suicide through cyanide ingestion during his court trial, shortly after being convicted of arson. After ingesting the cyanide, he collapsed to the floor, began convulsing, and made pig-like grunting noises.

Spoiler

 

[kat6]

Any references?

Only those happening before loss of consciousness really matter.

Those painful deaths may be related to not following an optimal protocol. I'll quote what PPeH 2022 actually says:

Too many to note, but do your research on cyanide poisoning and its mechanism of action from a medical perspective and you will understand. There are plenty of resources out there, but they can be a bit dense with tons of medical terms you would need to understand to make sense of it. The symptoms I described are before and after you lose consciousness. Not pleasant. In order to lose consciousness that quickly like the San Quentin study, one would need a setup that could quickly get a very large concentration of cyanide into air . That is incredibly unsafe to do in an uncontrolled environment. Even if you don't care about your safety, it would be an evil move to endanger others.

 

[Intoxicated]

Too many to note, but do your research on cyanide poisoning and its mechanism of action from a medical perspective and you will understand.

Oh, thanks, "do your research" is a very useful reference

In order to lose consciousness that quickly like the San Quentin study, one would need a setup that could quickly get a very large concentration of cyanide into air .

That's easy to do if you release HCN into a very small enclosed volume such as a plastic bag. The biggest mistake people commonly do with toxic gases like HCN, H2S, and CO is trying to parody making Nazi's gas chambers, that is simply non-optimal and dumb when it's done for killing only one person rather than a crowd of people. Releasing a toxic gas into the ambient atmosphere for the purposes of a single CTB implies a purposeless waste of a great part of it on one hand and potential troubles with insufficient concentration for achieving a quick and painless CTB on the other hand.

Even if you don't care about your safety, it would be an evil move to endanger others.

I guess, that's why there are so many attempts to discourage people from using cyanides by claiming that they cause painful death (implicitly implying that such an outcome is rather common than exceptional) without having actual proofs.

 

[kat6]

I guess, that's why there are so many attempts to discourage people from using cyanides by claiming that they cause painful death (implicitly implying that such an outcome is rather common than exceptional) without having actual proofs.

Sounds like you've made up your mind, and all the medical journals that say it's not painless are wrong. Not my business. But please whatever you do, make sure it doesn't hurt anyone else. :)

I'm not a doctor or chemist, but from what I've read regarding autopsies of cyanide poisoning, sores inside the nose, pulmonary hemorrhages and gastric hemorrhages were not uncommon. People that were exposed to non lethal amounts of treated in time also have said it felt like acid down their nose and mouth. That might be where the burning feeling comes from.

 

[Intoxicated]

and all the medical journals that say it's not painless are wrong.

Medical journals commonly describe possible effects of exposure to cyanide poisoning in general, implying a high variability of circumstances, including a wide range of doses. You cannot reasonably claim that all those symptoms are relevant in case of using optimal protocols of deliberate poisoning aimed to reduce discomfort to bare minimum.

I'm not a doctor or chemist, but from what I've read regarding autopsies of cyanide poisoning, sores inside the nose, pulmonary hemorrhages and gastric hemorrhages were not uncommon.

That doesn't actually prove that acute cynide poisoning is necessarily painful. H2S is also able to produce scary changes like that, and nevertheless US CDC and EPA mention that high concentrations of it produce rapid loss of consciousness without any significant pain.

People that were exposed to non lethal amounts of treated in time also have said it felt like acid down their nose and mouth. That might be where the burning feeling comes from.

HCN dissolved in water is a very weak acid, even weaker than H2O + CO2, hence its possible irritating properties are not related to strong acidity.

KCN must be a relatively potent alkali, since it's formed from a strong base and a weak acid. So yes, technically it can burn, but not like an acid, it would rather resemble heating-like sensations from sodium carbonate. And this effect can be negated by ingesting something acidic like lemon or orange juice, that is sometimes recommended as a part of CTB protocol.

 

[Amarajoy]

Michael James Marin was an American financier, lawyer, ex-Wall Street trader, and millionaire who died by suicide through cyanide ingestion during his court trial, shortly after being convicted of arson. After ingesting the cyanide, he collapsed to the floor, began convulsing, and made pig-like grunting noises.

Spoiler

The full video used to be on YT. Know anywhere it can still be viewed. If I recall he never looked very distressed.

 

[kat6]

Medical journals commonly describe possible effects of exposure to cyanide poisoning in general, implying a high variability of circumstances, including a wide range of doses. You cannot reasonably claim that all those symptoms are relevant in case of using optimal protocols of deliberate poisoning aimed to reduce discomfort to bare minimum.


That doesn't actually prove that acute cynide poisoning is necessarily painful. H2S is also able to produce scary changes like that, and nevertheless US CDC and EPA mention that high concentrations of it produce rapid loss of consciousness without any significant pain.

HCN dissolved in water is a very weak acid, even weaker than H2O + CO2, hence its possible irritating properties are not related to strong acidity.

KCN must be a relatively potent alkali, since it's formed from a strong base and a weak acid. So yes, technically it can burn, but not like an acid, it would rather resemble heating-like sensations from sodium carbonate. And this effect can be negated by ingesting something acidic like lemon or orange juice, that is sometimes recommended as a part of CTB protocol.

I thought regardless whether you ingest sodium or potassium cyanide, the stomach acids begin to turn into hcn gas when they come into contact. Wouldn't the hcn in your stomach, trachea and lungs cause burning?

 

[Intoxicated]

I thought regardless whether you ingest sodium or potassium cyanide, the stomach acids begin to turn into hcn gas when they come into contact.

Yes, but since the typical concentration of HCl in gastric juice is 0.5% or less, the reaction should be rather slow. Besides, HCN is well-soluble in water, hence a great part of produced hydrogen cyanide should remain dissolved in the gastric fluid rather than leave the place of the reaction immediately in the form of vapours. So I wouldn't expect presence of big amounts of gaseous HCN prior to loss of consciousness.

Wouldn't the hcn in your stomach, trachea and lungs cause burning?

I didn't see any sources that describe HCN as a potent irritant comparable to hydrogen chloride for example, so I don't get where that intense burning sensation could come from.

 

[Talvikki]

The full video used to be on YT. Know anywhere it can still be viewed. If I recall he never looked very distressed.

Not distressed? Didn't you hear the pig-like grunting noises? Turn your sound on.

 

[L'absent]

Not distressed? Didn't you hear the pig-like grunting noises? Turn your sound on.

How long did it take for him to die?