"Deep down, they know we are right"

[ijustwishtodie]

In many different debates regarding many different scenarios, I tend to see people say what I quoted in the title. It's so weird at how people say this when it comes to the opposing side of almost every debate (of course I'm exaggerating a bit here but I'm sure you get the point). Since I'm posting this in the suicide discussion section, I'm going to focus on how people say it when it comes to suicide. I've seen both pro lifers and pro choicers say the exact same thing for the opposing side. Pro lifers say it in the context of us being suicidal and that, deep down, we know that they are right about their assessments of life. Pro choicers say it in the context of pro lifers knowing deep down that we are right about our assessment of life.

What people fail to realise is that, no, deep down, the other side doesn't think that they are right. Both sides genuinely believe in their own views and they don't deep down think that the other side is correct. I believe that life is shitty, contains a lot of suffering and I don't deep down think that pro lifers are right about life being more positive than negative. Pro lifers believe that life is more positive than negative and don't deep down think that life is shitty or miserable. Saying that pro lifers know that we are right deep down is just incorrect and pointless to say

 

[Forever Sleep]

The other problem is- pro-lifers have the 'mental illness' card. They'll likely say ideation is a symptom of a brain that isn't functioning normally. I'm not saying I agree with that. I wish science/ psychology would prove it conclusively one way or the other to be honest- so we could move beyond it.

Firstly to establish whether all people with ideation also have mental illness, secondly- whether all mental illness is sufficiently treatable and thirdly- does mental illness truly inhibit reasoning/capacity to make decisions?

I suspect we all have our own answers to those issues. Mine personally are: I don't believe all ideation stems from mental illness. I don't think all mental illness can be treated. Not to the degree where a person is free to live a reasonable life- in which case- why isn't it being classed as chronic and incurable? And thirdly- I don't think mental illness always taints reasoning although- in some cases, it might.

I think there can be some cross over though. I've known people who truly loved life. I don't think I could be them but, I wouldn't say they were 'wrong' or 'delluded'. They've just had a different experience to me. Conversely, I think some people do have enough empathy to imagine how someone who was in pain would want to escape that pain. They may not be able to quite conceive of wanting the same thing for themselves (yet) but I think there are people with enough empathy to put themselves in another's shoes. Either way round.

Still, I doubt a pro-lifer woukd actually come out and say- 'yeah, you'd be better off dead.' Even people here probably wouldn't go that far without knowing a lot more about a person's life and their (likely limited) options.