Depression as a neurotype and not an illness

[MentalFuneral]

I have no expertise in psychology so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a huge chunk of people diagnosed with depression are probably just a different neurotype from the majority, and the depression is a result of that to that rather than some nebulous, poorly defined disorder. I think its completely irrational to immediately assume that person is ill.
Treating suicidal intent as an irrational state of mind that spontaneously appears rather than a reasonable response to stressful conditions further proves that to me. It seems to me like you need to have some level of cognitive dissonance just to be able to exist in this world, yet somehow I'm the mentally ill one? This goes beyond just how shitty our society is, biology and existence as a whole is inherently very disillusioning and depressing (probably why we have religion).

Anyway this is just my rambling about something I've been thinking about for a long time, feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong, of course I dont think this applies to every depressed person

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Neurodiversity is a term that stems from social justice movements, not from psychology or neuroscience. It was made to encompass neurological diversity. I personally hate terms like "neurotype" and "neurodiversity" just due to how vague these terms can be and how often people have trouble sorting out what belongs under said category and what doesn't.

Anyway, there has been a growing effort to try and better define it through a more medical/psychological lens. Neurodiversity exists across the entire population. Similar to how IQ or height can be seen along a spectrum, the same thing applies to neurodiversity. It's more of a continuum rather than a category, with most people averaging around a particular area. Think of it kind of like a bell curve, for example. Neurodivergent and neurotypical are terms used in reference to where or not your brain development and cognitive falls within or out of the typical range (typical vs. atypical).
Neurominorities, those who happen to possess atypical neural or cognitive phenotypes, can fall under several different umbrellas, one of which is psychiatric, which includes depression.

I.​

Applied developmental neurominority (including learning disabilities, such as dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia); neurodevelopmental conditions with genetic and environmental components leading to educational-applied consequences but not health implications.

II.​

Clinical developmental neurominority (including Tourette, Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), and Attention Deficit and Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD)); neurodevelopmental conditions with genetic and environmental components that impact behavior and communication across contexts and are currently considered health issues.​

While both groups refer to neurodevelopmental conditions, the first (applied) typically affects specific domains (e.g., educational settings), and the latter (clinical) has a broad and cross-domain impact.​

In addition to developmental neurodiversity, Doyle differentiates between psychiatric and neurological acquired neurominorities, both are clinical and considered health issues.​

III.​

Psychiatric acquired minority refers to mental illness and psychiatric disorders.

IV.​

Neurological acquired minority referees to neurodivergence due to neurological illness or injury.​

With that in mind, not everyone who is suicidal suffers from depression and depression being a neurotype doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be treated. There are a lot of people who have suffered from depression since childhood despite coming from very fortunate circumstances (loving well-off households, loving and accepting parents, great friends and peers, no prior trauma, etc). I understand that you claim to acknowledge this, but I feel like this needs to be emphasized. Depression is a mental illness and there does seem to potentially be some hereditary components to it.

While people who might be autistic, for example, might be at increased risk of suffering from psychiatric disorders, such as depression, you can't ignore all of the cases of depression that happen in people who have had great lives and who do not have any other underlying neurological conditions outside of that one disorder. It is an illness. It does negatively impact people's ability to function on a day-to-day basis. I do think that there is an issue with professionals overdiagnosing depression and automatically assuming that those who want to ctb have it, but that doesn't take away from it still being a disorder. Rather, it reflects an issue within our wider society when it comes to addressing psychological issues mainly caused by things, such as discrimination, along with an issue with how our society is structured all around.

Even if we stopped we stopped diagnosing suicidal individuals with depression, or any mental illness in general, people would still view us as being abnormal and irrational and would come up with a brand new explanation for why we are this way. Mental illness is just used to rationalize those views. If you were to take the "muh, mental illness" argument away from pro-lifers they would just come up with some other argument to push the idea of us being irrational and unwell. It's a losing battle.

Also, sorry if this reads as nonsense. I also like to ramble and I tend to make posts without thoroughly thinking through what I want to say so they usually end up being hard to comprehend.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Neurodiversity exists across the entire population.

Wait, what?? The internet (particularly this website) taught me that it's the neurodiverse vs the normies.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Wait, what?? The internet (particularly this website) taught me that it's the neurodiverse vs the normies.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the normie neuroscientists lied to us in order to further push their normie would agenda.

 

[MentalFuneral]

Neurodiversity is a term that stems from social justice movements, not from psychology or neuroscience. It was made to encompass neurological diversity. I personally hate terms like "neurotype" and "neurodiversity" just due to how vague these terms can be and how often people have trouble sorting out what belongs under said category and what doesn't.

Anyway, there has been a growing effort to try and better define it through a more medical/psychological lens. Neurodiversity exists across the entire population. Similar to how IQ or height can be seen along a spectrum, the same thing applies to neurodiversity. It's more of a continuum rather than a category, with most people averaging around a particular area. Think of it kind of like a bell curve, for example. Neurodivergent and neurotypical are terms used in reference to where or not your brain development and cognitive falls within or out of the typical range (typical vs. atypical).
Neurominorities, those who happen to possess atypical neural or cognitive phenotypes, can fall under several different umbrellas, one of which is psychiatric, which includes depression.

View attachment 154411

With that in mind, not everyone who is suicidal suffers from depression and depression being a neurotype doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be treated. There are a lot of people who have suffered from depression since childhood despite coming from very fortunate circumstances (loving well-off households, loving and accepting parents, great friends and peers, no prior trauma, etc). I understand that you claim to acknowledge this, but I feel like this needs to be emphasized. Depression is a mental illness and there does seem to potentially be some hereditary components to it.

While people who might be autistic, for example, might be at increased risk of suffering from psychiatric disorders, such as depression, you can't ignore all of the cases of depression that happen in people who have had great lives and who do not have any other underlying neurological conditions outside of that one disorder. It is an illness. It does negatively impact people's ability to function on a day-to-day basis. I do think that there is an issue with professionals overdiagnosing depression and automatically assuming that those who want to ctb have it, but that doesn't take away from it still being a disorder. Rather, it reflects an issue within our wider society when it comes to addressing psychological issues mainly caused by things, such as discrimination, along with an issue with how our society is structured all around.

Even if we stopped we stopped diagnosing suicidal individuals with depression, or any mental illness in general, people would still view us as being abnormal and irrational and would come up with a brand new explanation for why we are this way. Mental illness is just used to rationalize those views. If you were to take the "muh, mental illness" argument away from pro-lifers they would just come up with some other argument to push the idea of us being irrational and unwell. It's a losing battle.

Also, sorry if this reads as nonsense. I also like to ramble and I tend to make posts without thoroughly thinking through what I want to say so they usually end up being hard to comprehend.

Doesn't read as nonsense at all, and thank you for better informing me. I agree the term neurotype is too vague, wasnt sure what else to use. Maybe personality? I certainly didn't intend to say that depression shouldn't be treated. I would be hell of a lot worse off without my depression meds. Yet seeking treatment for my major depression is frustrating because I feel like it pathologizes certain things about me. Being creative, more sensitive than most people, caring about the natural world, etc. Being depressed is my response to it being difficult to live in this world with these traits. Therefore I don't see how I'm mentally ill, it seems like a rational response. I hope that better explains what I was trying to say.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Depression is a security mechanism of our brain when we're overwhelmed/overloaded/too stressed. The brain shuts down to protect us. That was a life-saving mechanism in the past (thousands of years ago). We still have this protection mechanism but in our modern world, our problems only become bigger if our brain tries to protect us.

I would say the majority of all cases of depression are a result of external circumstances. Neurodivergent people are probably more sensitive than neurotypical and therefore can become "depressed" more easily.

In my case, external circumstances make me depressed and suicidal. If there're no "threats" and things calm down I recover on my own.

 

[J&L383]

I have no expertise in psychology so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a huge chunk of people diagnosed with depression are probably just a different neurotype from the majority, and the depression is a result of that to that rather than some nebulous, poorly defined disorder. I think its completely irrational to immediately assume that person is ill.
Treating suicidal intent as an irrational state of mind that spontaneously appears rather than a reasonable response to stressful conditions further proves that to me. It seems to me like you need to have some level of cognitive dissonance just to be able to exist in this world, yet somehow I'm the mentally ill one? This goes beyond just how shitty our society is, biology and existence as a whole is inherently very disillusioning and depressing (probably why we have religion).

Anyway this is just my rambling about something I've been thinking about for a long time, feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong, of course I dont think this applies to every depressed person

It seems you've given this a lot of thought and it's more than just mere rambling. Think you for your post, now I can feel more "normal" (whatever that is).

 

[TheNatureOfDying]

Depression is a security mechanism of our brain when we're overwhelmed/overloaded/too stressed. The brain shuts down to protect us. That was a life-saving mechanism in the past (thousands of years ago). We still have this protection mechanism but in our modern world, our problems only become bigger if our brain tries to protect us.

I would say the majority of all cases of depression are a result of external circumstances. Neurodivergent people are probably more sensitive than neurotypical and therefore can become "depressed" more easily.

In my case, external circumstances make me depressed and suicidal. If there're no "threats" and things calm down I recover on my own.

i feel like for me being depressed is just part of who i am. it doesn't feel like a disorder or abnormal at this point, it's just a fact of life. i don't really know when or why it happened but i have felt very depressed for many years. i think there are definitely external circumstances which make me more depressed / want to CTB but i also feel like being sad is just part of who i am. i guess i have been trying to come to terms with that and what it means for my relationship to myself and other people.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't know enough about it either to be honest. I thought neuorodivergence exists from birth though. I'm not sure a newborn can develop depression. Although- maybe they have the genes that make them susceptible to it at some stage. I feel like depression tends to come about as a response to specific stimuli- although, maybe not always. Maybe neurodivergence does too though. Not sure.

I thought a neurodivergent brain kind of grows that way. Whereas, I think depression can affect both neurotypical and neuroatypical brains at any stage. Like- can you develop autism when you are middle aged or- is it more likely someone has always had it but, it hasn't been diagnosed till that point? Whereas, I think a previously happy person can become depressed.

I suspect long-term depression can change how we think though. Again- I'm not scientific either but, it makes sense that as humans- when we repeat behaviour, it becomes more effortless and we get better at it. Including thinking pessimistically/ cynically. It takes so much effort for me to try and think positively now and even then, it doesn't feel believable! I feel like being melancholy is a part of my character. I think both are heredity though.

 

[MentalFuneral]

I don't know enough about it either to be honest. I thought neuorodivergence exists from birth though. I'm not sure a newborn can develop depression. Although- maybe they have the genes that make them susceptible to it at some stage. I feel like depression tends to come about as a response to specific stimuli- although, maybe not always. Maybe neurodivergence does too though. Not sure.

I thought a neurodivergent brain kind of grows that way. Whereas, I think depression can affect both neurotypical and neuroatypical brains at any stage. Like- can you develop autism when you are middle aged or- is it more likely someone has always had it but, it hasn't been diagnosed till that point? Whereas, I think a previously happy person can become depressed.

I suspect long-term depression can change how we think though. Again- I'm not scientific either but, it makes sense that as humans- when we repeat behaviour, it becomes more effortless and we get better at it. Including thinking pessimistically/ cynically. It takes so much effort for me to try and think positively now and even then, it doesn't feel believable! I feel like being melancholy is a part of my character. I think both are heredity though.

I think people here are misunderstanding what I meant. To be fair I worded it very poorly as I have a really difficult time communicating my thoughts. What I meant to say is what is commonly diagnosed as depression is a response to stressful conditions outside of their control (neurodiversity often plays a factor). So I feel like in some ways depression pathologizes otherwise normal and often good things about people, simply because their depression is a result of being unable to be happy in this extremely specific, rigid world we have created. When I see how high the percentages of treatment resistant depression are, I wonder if its just that. That we're throwing shit at the wall in terms of treatment, and blaming the person when it might be the world around them that is at fault, and realistically how can you treat that? In other words, I dont feel like its fair to assign me as mentally ill for feeling pain about being born different

 

[Praestat_Mori]

i feel like for me being depressed is just part of who i am. it doesn't feel like a disorder or abnormal at this point, it's just a fact of life. i don't really know when or why it happened but i have felt very depressed for many years. i think there are definitely external circumstances which make me more depressed / want to CTB but i also feel like being sad is just part of who i am. i guess i have been trying to come to terms with that and what it means for my relationship to myself and other people.

I believe that depression can become chronic if the circumstances that are causing the depression cannot be eliminated. Then it becomes a "part of our lives" and perhaps later on develops into untreatable depression bc this "state" is kinda burnt into our brains and cannot be broken up anymore.