Discussion 'Die before you die.'

[Forever Sleep]

I've heard this term in relation to religion. Letting go of the ego, of worldly attachments. Sometimes letting go of an existing set of beliefs to embrace others.

However, I think many people who eventually suicide die in multiple ways beforehand. How many of us talk about feeling like 'husks' of humans or, our former selves? We lose our interests, our passions, even our connection to others.

How far do you feel you've already died? If you do intend to CTB or, even hold on for natural death, do you suppose more of you will go? What parts do you still try to hold on to? Do you try to get some things back or, do you just let them drift? Does it make you sad to lose them? I think for me, it just makes me more and more certain that CTB is the right decision for me.

I'm trying to hold on to my creative career. Not so much because it's still my great love now. More because the alternative of wage slavery feels even worse! But, it's mostly like going through the motions of what I need to do to stay afloat. I suppose I'm not willing to let myself slip into destitution. I probably don't need things to be that bad to CTB so- I don't want to experience that fear and suffering. The same goes for things like hygienne. It's certainly slipped but, I (hopefully) won't let it get so bad that I get infections/ cavities. I hate pain.

My interest in life has gone though. Regarding pretty much everything. I still appreciate the various things that help me cope- films, music, games, food. I like the idea of visiting nature again although, I don't have quite the enthusiasm to do it. But, it's mostly all indifferent 'meh'. With some things definitely far worse than others but, even the best things not feeling that brilliant.

This bit's more of a vent... I watched the new Bridget Jones film: 'Mad about the Boy' the other day. Not sure why really. I try to avoid chick flicks usually but I was hoping the comedy would balance it out. Weirdly though, it just made me more miserable. Not that I even want a relationship or children. Not that I miss the old me that did at least want a relationship. Still, it sort of made me feel like an alien! That I don't really even want any of these 'normal' things the world has going on. I don't fully understand it though. Why would I feel upset about not wanting life when I don't? Maybe it ties in to the whole: 'What might have been' but- that feels too far gone now. Plus, it isn't all that appealing anyway. Rambling on now- sorry. As a side note, do you ever have unexpected reactions to things?

 

[Shadows From Hell]

I died a long time ago. When my life fell completely through, and I finally hit the bottom, that was it for me.

I got to the point that any fucks I used to have, went in the trash, feelings in the trash, cares, sadness, happiness, anger, tears.... All in the trash. I just don't have it anymore. I'm tired of fighting the battles I can't win.

 

[Apathy79]

I think most suicidal people excel at letting go of worldly attachments. Almost by default, if you commit to committing suicide, you have no worldly attachments significant enough to make you want to stay. Similarly if the root of all aversions and fears is the fear of death, as commonly proclaimed, then a suicidal person isn't going to have much trouble overcoming them either. That's a spiritual superpower. If the key to enlightenment is letting go of attachments and aversions, as is the most common teaching, then every suicidal person is right on the precipice of it. It's a fascinating thought to me. And coincides with the idea that most people have to hit rock bottom to let go of anything. Well who's at rock bottom?

As for "die before you die", I'm currently trying to view this in a different context. And one which most suicidal people have given much more thought than jane doe. So I'm writing a scene where the character knows she will die tonight, for certain. What does she want out of her final day? This is not a suicidal character incidentally, in fact it would be viewed as quite a tragic thing. It's made me face if I know for certain I will die at x time (say tonight, or in a week, or a year, whatever), what do I need to do before then? When it all boils down to it, what are the most important things to me in this life?

I don't have any answers to any of this but your post raises some fascinating questions to me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think most suicidal people excel at letting go of worldly attachments. Almost by default, if you commit to committing suicide, you have no worldly attachments significant enough to make you want to stay. Similarly if the root of all aversions and fears is the fear of death, as commonly proclaimed, then a suicidal person isn't going to have much trouble overcoming them either. That's a spiritual superpower. If the key to enlightenment is letting go of attachments and aversions, as is the most common teaching, then every suicidal person is right on the precipice of it. It's a fascinating thought to me. And coincides with the idea that most people have to hit rock bottom to let go of anything. Well who's at rock bottom?

As for "die before you die", I'm currently trying to view this in a different context. And one which most suicidal people have given much more thought than jane doe. So I'm writing a scene where the character knows she will die tonight, for certain. What does she want out of her final day? This is not a suicidal character incidentally, in fact it would be viewed as quite a tragic thing. It's made me face if I know for certain I will die at x time (say tonight, or in a week, or a year, whatever), what do I need to do before then? When it all boils down to it, what are the most important things to me in this life?

I don't have any answers to any of this but your post raises some fascinating questions to me.

I've considered it that way too. Letting go of worldy attachment is seen as something positive in terms of some forms of spirituality. Shedding our ego etc. I guess for them though, the positive aftermath is that they maybe replace it all with something enlightened and better. I've had that thought too though. That suicidal people are surely masters at shedding earthly desires, even their own ego. Maybe they aren't considered enlightened unless they fill those spaces with something else though. It's not exactly a calm, blissful state for many suicidal people though. We're hardly 'at peace'. Maybe that's the difference.

Your writing project sounds very interesting. Not that this was very in depth but, I remember a line from James Bond 'Skyfall' where the villain explains that he made the islanders believe there had been some sort of chemical/ radioactive disaster and they needed to evacuate. His observation of what people took or left behind- what really mattered. Not that it's the same as dieing of course but, it's interesting to think of what we most value.

In a way, people who suicide have the 'luxury' I suppose of knowing it may be their last days here. So, we can plan how to use the time. It's a strange idea though. I suspect most of us have thought about what we might do. I guess it's the same for people when doctors predict they have a limited time to live. Except, they are more able to share that information I suppose. Good luck with the project. Do you enjoy it mostly or, can it be arduous? Both I'm guessing...

 

[Apathy79]

I think perhaps like you it's a creative outlet. I enjoy it and don't do it enough. The book that scene is from I've been working on for about 4 years now and still don't have a completed first draft. It might never be published. But writing a scene like that makes me contemplate deeply my true feelings in the same situation. You used the phrase "die before you die" not necessarily in this context but it feels like a profound process to go through as deep as you can: imagining dying is certain and then going through it at a certain time. How do you feel about it? What do you want from your remaining time? What else comes up?

It's going to be a different experience for a suicidal vs non-suicidal person I suspect. But it's like training for a moment almost no-one has trained for but everyone will encounter.

 

[OptingOutSmiling]

I actually thought about this today, having "died already". For me it feels like I did, the moment I made the decision to ctb last year just before joining SaSu. It feels like I crossed a line and died inside. I'm a different person, some unknown version of my former self. I let go of all worldly possessions when I left my country shortly after this, with the mindset that I'm packing for the grave. That was easy, my whole life in two suitcases. It felt like the journey was the beginning of the end.

What could've been an exciting chapter under opposite circumstances, turned out simply as nothing much. Nothing is "wow", even though I moved to the beautiful SE Asia. I'm on autopilot, surviving. Writing this now, it almost sounds to me like I may have lost it, and maybe I did. My world has become surreal, sometimes I'm looking on to this other me from the outside, an empty dead shell not knowing how to be alive anymore. I guess there is not much more of me to let go of, because that part has already been taken care of.

I have better days though, when I manage to go for a run or a walk. I appreciate sunsets and clouds, but more as a link to past memories as opposed to the present moment. What am I holding onto? My sanity, making ends meet till I can purchase my ticket to leave. Will I use it? Not sure yet, because I'm also holding onto a belief in one person who could potentially turn everything around and make me alive again. I realise it hasn't been a long time for me on this journey. However, it was a real and sudden death with a no-return option to the path left behind and I feel I can relate to "dying before dying".

There's also the thing with ctb that I feel more in control, with the option to decide when to leave. It's like having insurance, or peace of mind that I don't have to go through hell again to die again. Being at peace before we die as opposed to finding peace in death.

 

[divinemistress36]

Im somewhat spiritual. I know most people here dont believe in souls. But I feel mine died or detached somewhere along the way. I think a lot of people on here are old souls they have lived more painful lives than most, more emotional intelligence, wisdom, and dont care about materalism. Its painful and beautiful