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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
6,204
I am not sure. They say how disciplined Asian people were but are they really way more productive? Higher suicide rates more stigmatization of mental illness is it worth it?

In Germany the government wants to boost productivity by getting rid of one holiday. But there is no empirical evidence whether that would actually lead to more productivity. They claim it was an easy way to increase the GDP by a few billions but there are doubts whether it actually works that way. It is probably more of a narrative that we Germans have to work more to maintain our wealth.

They say we have to work as much as Americans. While Chinese make fun of Americans for their low work ethics. In the US there is a huge gap in education. Many have a very low education, while some are extremely Ivy league educated.

I think I can be extremely disciplined. I lost 35 kilograms with 15, started to educate myself. So much that I did not want to do anything else with 18. I was in a mixed manic-depressive episode which gave me a huge drive to work my ass off. But it led to a psychosis which would have happened anyway sooner or later. Something I only recognized retrospectively.

I always wished I was Ivy league educated and I wanted to become part of the elite. I don't think I lack discipline. I rather lack hard intelligence and my resilience is net negative. I am a mental wreck. But it is not like I just needed that to succeed. My pathologies are that strong that I would be a completely different person with different goasl if I had more resilience and less abuse in my childhood.

The irony is I will never be a productive member of society and even if I killed myself I would (according to studies) cost the society a lot of money. The abuse in my childhood made me numb to mental pain caused by pressuring me. I have extremely high expectations of me when I compete in college. I was often among the best in my college courses but only because I worked my ass off. I had to take addictive medication otherwise I would broken down after two semesters. I even went on with college while having a benzo withdrawal. Something they say is worse than a heroin withdrawal. My health deteriorated further. I had so many psychosomatic issues and I was on the edge of suicide. I could not continue after 5 semesters, it was literally impossible. I ignored the mental pain but I was prettyy close to a collapse. My friends pressured me to go to a clinic and the staff of the clinic was speechless when I described my voluntary torment. I was in a lot pain and they noticed that. 1 year afterwards my resting pulse is still around 100, 30 more than prior to college.

What do I want to say with that? The abuse of my mom made me extremely disciplined. I euphemised it as Prussian education as teenager. She wanted that I have a good career. And now instead I am a mental wreck. It shows that discipline does not mean much if others factors are not met. They say conscientiousness is the best predictor for success in life. I am conscientious as fuck. Beyond anything. But in my case it is crippling. I am a neurotic nervous wreck. I am not sure what a person I was if the abuse never happened to me. With 15 a switch in my mind happened. With 14 severe bullying happened that triggered this bipolar episode. I binge watched so much trash TV on a daily basis and ate extremely unhealthy before that.

You can also destroy people's life by pressuring them to be disciplined. Some people are lazy but extremely gifted and could achieve way more than me. There is not this one factor that fixes anything. There are so many women who work their ass off in care work that noone acknowledges. They often do this for free. We also need people who do the dirty work that don't give you some sort of status.
 
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Ashu

Ashu

novelist, sanskritist, Canadian living in India
Nov 13, 2021
840
I'm a white Canadian living in India and I'm way more disciplined than anyone around me. But nothing is generalizable from this. You cannot make meaningful generalizations about entire cultures and civilizations.
 
Dejected 55

Dejected 55

Enlightened
May 7, 2025
1,452
Humanity is humanity. What even is discipline? A lot of it is relative. Is a person disciplined because they can establish a regular routine and repeat it every day without fail? Does it matter that the routine itself is completely non-productive and a waste of time?

What if you have a discipline to make the lives of others horrible? Is that good? Is discipline to lose weight good or learn and improve yourself good? What if you are still unhappy even with all these accomplishments because you are lonely? There is no discipline that guarantees happiness.

As the OP notes... some of the people considered to be most disciplined (China, Japan) have high suicide rates because of the pressure put upon them by that discipline and the disproportionate unhappiness in their personal accomplishments OR the immense pressure on them for even the slightest failure that otherwise wouldn't ruin their lives, but any failure is blown up because "lacks discipline" or whatever.

What is discipline? You could have a discipline to do things that are actually killing you... but you have discipline. That surely isn't good.

Serial killers are often methodical, disciplined, and very hard to catch... that is definitely not good at all.
 
T

Tigger

New Member
Sep 8, 2025
4
I live in Australia and discipline/commitment to success certainly seems to be a label often placed on migrants from Asian countries.

I wonder if it is more to do with them being willing/needing to take the more menial and/or 'hard' jobs being collectively a new group without the entrenched opportunities and privilege.
 

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