Discussion Do you believe in femceldom?

[DynahWAY]

I am very, very new to the forum, so I'm sorry if I come across as weird. But I'm trying to get used to posting.

I wanted to talk about inceldom, specifically femceldom. I identify as an incel, specifically a femcel (since I'm a woman). I feel like I shouldn't have to identify as a femcel because incel is unisex, but incels are very, VERY adverse to the idea of a woman like them.

'Femcel is an oxymoron.'
'Femcels forgetting to be celibate.'

As a femcel, reading comments like that is so hilarious because...I'm a virgin! I have never had a boyfriend, but I guess I'm a bit of a fakecel. I've experimented a lot with my identify. I used to think I was a lot of things, specifically gay, and I had a lot of success with girls (nothing sexual, especially since I was young (in elementary/middle school) and a lot of the relationships were online). But I don't want a girlfriend. I want a boyfriend.
- And I've seen incels do the same thing on dating apps. They set their preference for women and have no success. Then they change their preference to men and have a bunch of success. But that's a different conversation, I guess.

Every experience I've had with boys/men has been abysmal. Online. IRL. When I was younger. As I got older. I have always been made fun of for being ugly. And I find it to be so funny because men, especially incels, claim to be dogs; say they'll settle for anything. But I confessed to an incel and he rejected me, too!

Right now, I'm laughing, but later, I'll cry. Still, I don't have an issue with incels. I don't beef with incels like incels beef with femcels. I don't know if being an ugly man is harder than being an ugly woman or vice versa. I empathize with all ugly people.

It's hard being ugly in general! So...do you believe in femceldom?

 

[-nobodyknows-]

Yeah, though tbh I have personally always considered "incelness" as generally less about looks and more about personality. Though this may just be my way of telling myself that I'm not ugly despite not having much luck with relationships.

For context, I am a guy, and while I guess I technically fit the definition of incel I do not identify as one, nor do I buy in to the "stereotypical incel beliefs".

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I do believe in femceldom being a thing, though I'm not a femcel. The femcel community, based on my limited knowledge of them, seems to be very different from many incel communities. There doesn't seem to be the same level of sexism and blame that is typically seen in incel spaces. Instead, most critiques seem to mostly be in reference to societal beauty standards instead. The communities still seem to be toxic but to a much lesser degree in comparison to most incel spaces.

I do feel like a lot of the differences between the two reflect the difference in how men and women are socialized from a young age. Men are encouraged to externalize their problems while women generally are encouraged to internalize their problems. As a result, you have one side that lashes out at women, going as far as to commit hate crimes against them, while the other side doesn't do much outside of discussing how their issues with getting men to make them feel like there is something wrong with them. They tend to put a lot of the blame on themselves.

The sense of entitlement typically found in incel communities is not as prevalent in femcel communities. Femcel communities can even be positive sometimes, with women supporting women and even congratulating those who do eventually go on to find a partner. They are still toxic, but there are a lot more positive aspects of those communities in comparison to the incredibly destructive atmosphere of most incel spaces. I find it easier to sympathize with femcels for this reason.

Here is some stuff I found written on them

How "Femcels" Differ From Incels

"Femcels," or women who identify as involuntarily celibate, are on the rise. Who are they and how do they differ psychologically from incels?

www.google.com

What are femcels?

Growing community at odds with male incel movement and its connection to violence

theweek.com

Edit: I just read a very interesting study looking at femcels.

Here's the link if anyone wants to read it:

Femcel Discussions of Sex, Frustration, Power, and Revenge - PubMed

Although male incels have received a great deal of scholarly attention in recent years, there has been almost no research on femcels (involuntarily celibate women). After collecting data from more than 24,000 femcel posts, we drew from a recently developed sexual frustration theory and conducted...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A lot of femcel ideology seems to border into radfem territory, with many being misandrists. Men are generalized in a very negative light, similar to what is seen in many incel communities, but aggression against men isn't as encouraged. There also seems to be more talk about issues regarding the patriarchy, women's safety, power, beauty standards, etc.

Here are two quotes from where they compare incels and femcels.

Spoiler: incels vs femcels

In terms of our second research question about what the recurring themes would be on these subjects, femcels' posts contained significantly less support for aggression, violence, and crime than what has been reported about male incels. There were powerful and notable exceptions: the femcels we studied referenced anger, hatred, and The Dark Triad—along with desires to throw objects, fight, get revenge, lure men, enslave them, murder them, and wipe them out. However, as discussed earlier, only a small proportion of all posts we analyzed mentioned revenge—and less than half of those focused on revenge by women. In addition, only 2% of all posts focused on women and sex were discussions of women committing sexual misconduct, and those were mostly condemnations by femcels, not their support of such crimes. By contrast, research on male incels has found that 89% of their posts about rape indicated they supported it (Center for Countering Digital Hate, 2022).

Furthermore, while a common theme in femcels' discussions of men's power was their physical strength and violence, femcels' discussions of women's power primarily focused on gaining power through legal means (e.g., self-improvement, group mobilization, or challenging the patriarchy in nonviolent ways).

 

[misatosdiary]

Simply, to answer your question; no. I hope I don't come across as mean, as our opinions on this is are not the same. Incels are often seen being antifeministic, hateful and having an extreme attitude. I never thought of incels just purely rejecting the new, free, woman, I'm pretty sure they spread hate towards all women. I fear I will get a lot of hate saying this, as this site has a connection to Incels, but with a Peer Support thread for women we probably have both point of views stated here. One question; why are you an incel? Do you generally display a rather hateful attitude towards women (especially those who do not submit to a man..) or is it you agree with most of the Manosphere's opinions? Or is it you want to get laid by them? (I know I sound harsh but it's just from my perception like that) Lastly.. aren't you kind of backfiring on yourself and all women by being an incel yourself? Also, is your view on incels different as you experienced them from the inside of the forum? Do you think that plays a role?

 

[AuroraB]

InCel- involuntarily celibate. Yup. After being married and in very LTRs for decades, I've had sex one single time in over 6 years and that was lame. So yup, femcel. Just haven't met anyone I'd be willing to choose to risk having sex with (STDs, cheating, emotional drama, blah blah) and hookups aren't for people my age. I'm still very much willing and able if I could find the right person. And in truth, at this age, I'm not willing to settle for less-than ideal (meaning he would have to be actually single, monogamous, not a porn user, at least vegetarian if not vegan, over 50, financially secure and not living with his roommates/ parents, job, squeaky clean hygiene and drug/booze/cig free and also cat-free cuz I'm allergic). LOL. So this means I'll never find the right guy. In a youth/beauty/porn obsessed culture, it's really a bummer to still be healthy and cute enough for my age yet unable to find a reasonable partner.

 

[Privateer2368]

Bitter, petty, man-hating women who can't get laid?

Definitely a real thing.

 

[UnluckyBastard]

No. Women's standards are extremely high. Purposefully having high standards is literally quite the opposite of inceldom in every possible context.

 

[soledad.virgen]

femcels can be involuntarily celibate but like 98% can have relationships/s*x but are just unhappy with what they get. I think that's why the term isn't taken seriously whereas a lot involuntarily celibate men can be genuinely unpleasant people. but i guess you can also say a lot of those are just unhappy with what they can get, because many incels will only settle for a super hot girl who is simultaneously chaste yet an object for their lewd desires. perhaps the terms are just not very useful anymore. i think the discourse around the loneliness epidemic, online dating, gender relations, toxic masculinity, etc. has been poisoned and inflamed by dumb culture war nonsense.

 

[AuroraB]

Bitter, petty, man-hating women who can't get laid?

Definitely a real thing.

Yup. And the older we get, the more bitter and jaded we become.

 

[no.hope]

i mean if a women considers her self a femcel for not getting sex it's an oxymoron but if her goal is an actual relationship it's valid
seen too many guys around me who are fine with sex but much more picky when it comes to who they date or even socialize with

ugly women sometimes are just assumed to be anti social and boring people

 

[Archness]

There's definitely man-hating women who don't have sex. You also have the genders having different approaches to sex, quality vs quality and all that.

I find that incells tend to be the only ones really oposing the exsistance of femcels at all, They have it stuck in their head that women can always have sex and relationships freely with literally zero effort. I also billeve they genuinely LOVE when women are suffering, lonely, and otherwise being femcells because they always low-key celibrate and make fun of these women. Then they refuse to emphasise or awknowledge femceldom.

It's a bit silly to ask if others believe in femceldom in the firstplace when I think about it. It doesn't matter, you're experiencing what you are. Is it a matter of pedantics? Because I feel like incell doesn't even mean "A person(male) who can't have sex despite trying"; you have loads of guys who fit that description but don't identify as incell. It's more about guys who hate and lash out at women for not having sex with them, very entitled.

So many guys could be considered "Incells", but they don't identify. Once again the term is drifting, to just mean a misogynist who can't get. You have branches of the incell ideology and individualls who are less hatefull and more introspective (and talk about being loosers byond just not having sex), but I think this is just a minority of the total incellsphere.

As for femcels being real, yes, they are.

 

[ThisGameIsOverrated]

But I confessed to an incel and he rejected me, too!

I've realised incels are no different to the women they complain about who only go after "chads", when they complain about women not wanting them they really mean the women they want aren't attracted to them

 

[treestumpbootsneo]

Everyone is different, and some women identify as femcel, and that's ok. I hope they overcome their challenges and become normies.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

And in truth, at this age, I'm not willing to settle for less-than ideal (meaning he would have to be actually single, monogamous, not a porn user, at least vegetarian if not vegan, over 50

Tis' some Choosing Beggars material.

 

[miyamura_04]

If you've experienced it then it must be true, atleast for yourself. I'm sorry people have made fun of your appearance growing up - it can really beat into you.

It's weird how people will comment on others' appearances when it has nothing to do with them at all. They feel the need to point out the things you're most insecure about and it feels like the stake is only driving further into your chest (for me it did anyway).

People like that aren't worth giving the time of day to because they're awful enough that they feel the need to say those things in the first place - though I'm sure that doesn't make it any easier to hear those things

 

[RoadToGehenna]

They exist but they are extreme cases. Most "femcels" are just mentally ill, isolated or mostly just picky. There's only a minority of extremely ugly women that might struggle as much. So yes, they might exist but it's mostly an attitude problem. If you are a woman in this last group, you can't expect for men to come flooding your DMs, because that won't happen (does it? maybe it does lol). However, the rest of normal women are so in-demand because of modern standards and social media that their counterparts struggle to find a single date despite trying really hard and getting constantly rejected. We are talking about attention and sex here. Long-lasting relationships are a struggle for more than half of the population nowadays xD

So, in summary, femcels do exist. Both incels and femcels have an attitude problem. It's not about being woman or man haters as "normies" will be telling you in their ignorance. It's about proactivity and having to work way harder than the rest of society in order to be considered worthy of a relationship. I think that today's society is so shallow and I really feel for anyone in this situation (I myself struggle with it due to my current mental and thus physical condition). Because loneliness is really hard and it is even harder to have a good attitude when you feel so defeated. I wish everyone could be loved because the world would be spared a lot of suffering that way. This said, yes, women do have it wayyyy easier in terms of the minimum standards required to get into the market. And this is just a fact. The thing is that, even if you check the marks, if you don't put yourself out there... no one will come knocking on your door. And this is the main problem, a lot of ppl lacks support and will just rot away.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes. I think it's just the same as inceldom. I didn't know the term as such but, in my younger days, I used to feel bitter that I didn't have the looks to attract men. I felt like they went for a specific 'type' and, I would never be that 'type'- no matter how hard I tried. I don't think in essence that's any different to what incels complain about. Basically- women/ men want what I 'can't' be.

I think it's more than that though. I'd argue that both incels and femcels are very likely hypocritical. They themselves likely feel attracted to a 'type'. You often get incels complaining that they don't want to 'settle' for someone. So- it's not that no woman will give them a chance. They're just annoyed that they won't likely get the 'cream' as it were. So- they're equally governed by beauty/ status standards. They're just furious that they aren't part of that club. Women just the same I imagine.

Personally, I don't think it's a great idea for either sex to feel like they've only 'settled' for someone. If they already think they've ended up with 'inferior goods', just how much are they likely to respect and treat them? Plus, I don't think a whole lot of underlying resentment and bitterness is going to be nice in a relationship. I'm sure that is equally as unattractive as someone actually being unattractive. (And I'm including myself in that bracket.)

I think both sexes have it bad. Maybe men don't like it that women are more emancipated now though. On top of everything else, many will actually choose to be alone and support themselves. That's a bit warped in a way though... That they maybe would prefer it if women couldn't become independent without them ultimately. So, they had no choice! Like some sort of Stockholme Syndrome!

Being a woman, I have my own biases because- I only know what it's like to be me. Personally, I've always felt like men have a wider criteria to be deemed attractive. Looks is the obvious one but, men are considered attractive into much older life than women (by most.) Some women will absolutely priorotize wealth and status over everything it seems. So- that's another route. Maybe some will argue but, I think women also love funny guys and those with larger than life personalities. Perhaps it is a bias with me but I feel like a lot of men seem to prioritise looks more than anything else. My Dad isn't particularly misoginistic but when refering to a women, he will almost always make some value assessment on how they look.

But to be fair- obviously, I have no experience as living as a man. I have no idea what that's like. Do you suppose one sex needs the other more now? Or, is that too generalised? So, incels maybe feel it more because they need women more? That's probably way too generalised though. I suspect it's all about the individual.

One thing I would say that does irritate me with incels is that- they'll absolutely insist that they have it worse when- they have no idea- unless they've actually lived as an unattractive woman too. Plus, I feel like incels do have more of a sense of entitlement which maybe is the cause of them seeming more aggressive towards actual women to me. Maybe that's just upbringing. Maybe men are taught to expect more out of life. Maybe that's unfair or incorrect though. That's just my personal feeling.

 

[astr4]

Tis' some Choosing Beggars material.

doesn't seem like they're begging at all to me ha, i think it's the best mentality to have, stop settling for people you don't even tolerate and spend the time on self improvement until someone who's values align with yours comes along.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I believe they exist just as Incels do and as I am an incel myself I can also empathize with femcels. The original person to even come up with the term incel was a woman anyhow so technically femceldom predates the incel community. Being an incel or a femcel due to standards alone gets you scrutiny from all sides but I also feel it's possible that mental barriers can be just as valid a reason as ugly looks for being unable to attract a partner. That may be a bit controversial but it's just how I see it.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Most "femcels" are just mentally ill, isolated or mostly just picky.

So, basically just like your average incel then?

 

[SmoolPepe]

No, I do not.
I feel it is in order to mention what my definition of incel is to avoid confusion: a person that is unable to acquire a relationship despite them wanting to.
Now for the answer, I did initially when I first stumbled upon incel content and, back then, I was rather against their whole "women cannot be incels" belief too.
Time and time again I was, however, proven wrong. I have always tried my best to be welcoming to everyone and still do, but there is a common pattern when it comes to women incels: always, without fail, each and every one of those women claiming to be so, would eventually let it slip that they have had relationships or sex or hookups or situationships in the past (without having to pay for it). There may very well be female incels, I simply never stumbled upon a woman that was not single by choice and was also unable to get any sort of relationship or sex even past lowering her standards.

Personally, I do no care about it, everyone lives their own life, but you cannot pretend to be an incel or to experience their same plight. Then again, why would you? Why would anyone in their right mind WANT to be an incel? It is an unfortunate outcome that no one asks for.
To add to that, it is not male incel communities/forums/subs/etc that have to put warnings or rules to discourage or outright ban the opposite sex from engaging with them, be it platonic attempts or otherwise.

Now, I know we can all be lonely in some shape or form regardless of gender, with or without having people in our lives. I understand that, this world is plagued with senseless pain and suffering.
And, I like to believe, I am well aware of some of the difficulties women face when it comes to dating and even more so online dating, one such difficulty being most candidates there are looking for just sex. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be, when you are looking for a genuine, long-term relationship.
And yet, I cannot bring myself to believe that out of the hundreds of men any woman (yes, even ugly ones) has at her disposal, ALL of them are exclusively interested in just sex. Preferences, biases, standards all come into play, of course, but the sheer amount of attention granted to any given woman on such platforms and even in real life is just too vast and it should be more than enough to brute force all these factors.
Plus, and I am aware women do not see it this way at all, simply knowing you CAN at any moment receive this type of attention even just for your body, is something unconceivable to male incels and I dare say one should not underestimate how validating being wanted and human touch can be. It is only in the absence of touch, you realize how excruciating the pain that replaces it is. Go on for long enough without any sort of non-sexual touch, from a caress to a hug to even cuddles, and you stop feeling human altogether, the psychological damage it inflicts on someone is hard to describe.

That being sad, if, for whatever reason, calling yourself an incel brings you either comfort or helps you in any way, by all means feel free to call yourself so and disregard anything others say. I truly do not mean to offend any woman that identifies herself as such for I do respect their choice, much in the same vein I can respect someone else`s religion without believing in it.

Either way, I do hope you can find peace and who knows, maybe the partner you are looking for. EVERYONE that wants it deserves to experience love and have someone to share life with, something many people take for granted so easily. If only to make this miserable existence a bit more bearable.
I did have other things I would have liked to add, but it is already a wall of text, sorry about that lol.

 

[ham and potatoes]

I mean, i guess femcels are a thing?
incels are bitter guys who blame women for their lack of luck in the dating word, rather than looking at themselves.
so sure, im sure there are women in that same boat/ mindset
"Am i the problem? No, cant be, its every one of the opposite sex!"

 

[RoadToGehenna]

So, basically just like your average incel then?

A lot of incels are what they would call "mentalcels" (lmao). However, the percentage of incels that struggle to even check those minimum standards marked by society in order to get laid or date is dramatically higher than the same category in the femcel group. Also, it's hard to measure. There's so much loneliness and rejection that one human being can take before going actually mental or just shutting down / choosing to isolate themselves. It's a continuum. Doesn't help that the role of the initiator is still mostly one carried out by men. But I would argue that all of this is just a consequence of the natural higher sex drive that men experience, thus the huge imbalance in the sex/relationships market when social media makes potential competition global. It's not women's fault that, given 100 choices without having to lift a finger, they would just cruelly discard 95% of them without even wanting to know them as a person. It's logical, though.

So, in general terms, it's just a completely skewed and unfair market biased towards women. There might be people on both sexes that give up on trying to have sex or look for a relationship for multiple reasons, even voluntarily. But in terms of actually accessing the market, there is a threshold that might be like a 1/10 for women and a 3.5/10 for men. People above that mark would not be considered incels/femcels. What you call "your average incel" would be a man or woman with a bad attitude or mental that can be either above or bellow that threshold. However, by definition, that group would be way bigger in the women's part because they have to improve way less in order to pass their attractiveness threshold. The actual definition of incels/femcels is that of those bellow that imaginary threshold because that's where we can argue that it is game over, despite whatever attitude they may have. So, potentially, femcels exist. And, potentially, everyone can stop being an incel/femcel if they improve themselves. But real world is way harsher and the real actual femcels are going to be really unfortunate women.

How to solve this? Regulate the market. A shift in culture to one that is less shallow or more prude may help. Enforcing monogamy may help. Going to war in order to even the balance may help (this is actually been the case for most of History). Banning social media may help.

This is how I see it. No morals or gender wars involved. Just a natural and difficult problem to solve. Sorry for the bible.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

A lot of incels are what they would call "mentalcels" (lmao). However, the percentage of incels that struggle to even check those minimum standards marked by society in order to get laid or date is dramatically higher than the same category in the femcel group. Also, it's hard to measure. There's so much loneliness and rejection that one human being can take before going actually mental or just shutting down / choosing to isolate themselves. It's a continuum. Doesn't help that the role of the initiator is still mostly one carried out by men. But I would argue that all of this is just a consequence of the natural higher sex drive that men experience, thus the huge imbalance in the sex/relationships market when social media makes potential competition global. It's not women's fault that, given 100 choices without having to lift a finger, they would just cruelly discard 95% of them without even wanting to know them as a person. It's logical, though.

So, in general terms, it's just a completely skewed and unfair market biased towards women. There might be people on both sexes that give up on trying to have sex or look for a relationship for multiple reasons, even voluntarily. But in terms of actually accessing the market, there is a threshold that might be like a 1/10 for women and a 3.5/10 for men. People above that mark would not be considered incels/femcels. What you call "your average incel" would be a man or woman with a bad attitude or mental that can be either above or bellow that threshold. However, by definition, that group would be way bigger in the women's part because they have to improve way less in order to pass their attractiveness threshold. The actual definition of incels/femcels is that of those bellow that imaginary threshold because that's where we can argue that it is game over, despite whatever attitude they may have. So, potentially, femcels exist. And, potentially, everyone can stop being an incel/femcel if they improve themselves. But real world is way harsher and the real actual femcels are going to be really unfortunate women.

How to solve this? Regulate the market. A shift in culture to one that is less shallow or more prude may help. Enforcing monogamy may help. Going to war in order to even the balance may help (this is actually been the case for most of History). Banning social media may help.

This is how I see it. No morals or gender wars involved. Just a natural and difficult problem to solve. Sorry for the bible.

^So many assumptions and generalizations made in this one post

 

[RoadToGehenna]

^So many assumptions and generalizations made in this one post

You are the one that replied to my initial post. Of course there will be generalizations and assumptions when discussing what a "femcel" is lmao... Yet, I think that's what you did and you haven't really tried to add anything else to the matter so your response is pretty useless as it is, sorry.

 

[katara]

No. Women's standards are extremely high. Purposefully having high standards is literally quite the opposite of inceldom in every possible context.

wait until you learn who originally created the term and who stole that term and then sold it as their own...

 

[RiverOfLife]

wait until you learn who originally created the term and who stole that term and then sold it as their own...

Fact. The concept of incel was created by a woman.
And it seems that quite a few incels have pretty high standards.

 

[sick.faery]

yea, anyone can be an incel

 

[ZeroM24]

I believe in none of any of this cel philosopy. People can either attract a mate or not, its random biological stuff and I never understood why people even bother with it and want a relationship. I cant stand the thought of being emotionally "chained" to one person. Probably just my autism. And the internet of course made this a larger topic cause women and men now dont have to settle for the local village/city people anymore.