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are good deeds less moral if the person is doing it for their own benefit

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • It depends

    Votes: 10 30.3%

  • Total voters
    33
apearl

apearl

mitski fan
Sep 25, 2023
113
(when I say for their own benefit I mean for their image / to make themselves feel better about themselves)

I want to know other people's opinions on this because I'm still debating myself.
 
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Hecubaa

Hecubaa

Member
Sep 30, 2024
36
I believe morality is overrated as a whole. In fact, I think it's a useless term. Everything is done for one's own benefit, in my understanding. If you feel good from performing a specific action because it aligns with your moral beliefs it is still done for yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that although I do prefer people who are able to recognize that the motivation is always still selfish and that that is okay.
 
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AuroraB

AuroraB

Student
Oct 20, 2024
164
I volunteer weekly (at least twice a week) giving out free groceries and cooking for/ feeding people at free potlucks in my city.
Everyone gets free groceries and a free cooked meal 2 times a week.
It's fun and I get free food for myself. It's a win/win.
 
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vitbar

vitbar

Escaped Lunatic
Jun 4, 2023
365
I believe morality is overrated as a whole. In fact, I think it's a useless term. Everything is done for one's own benefit, in my understanding. If you feel good from performing a specific action because it aligns with your moral beliefs it is still done for yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that although I do prefer people who are able to recognize that the motivation is always still selfish and that that is okay.
imo you could feel good about having performed an action without that being your motivation. I used to see things like you, but I'm wary of it now because I'm not sure being able to frame behaviours in a given way makes that framing true.
 
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Trismegistus_13

Trismegistus_13

Your best is all you can give
Jun 17, 2024
87
Does morality really matter in a situation like this? For instance, is there a difference between a disgraced/canceled celebrity giving away $20 million to food banks across the country to rehab their image and a well-liked celebrity doing the same? I would say no because the same amount of good is done in each case. The reasoning behind it doesn't matter because it is a good deed regardless of context
 
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ArcaneAlgorithm

ArcaneAlgorithm

New Member
Sep 27, 2024
1
For me, it won't change the value of the deed, but my view of that person will change if the intention behind their action becomes obvious.
 
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Hecubaa

Hecubaa

Member
Sep 30, 2024
36
imo you could feel good about having performed an action without that being your motivation. I used to see things like you, but I'm wary of it now because I'm not sure being able to frame behaviours in a given way makes that framing true.
That is fair and I hope I get to a point where I can think of it differently. I am prone to overanalyzing things. I do enjoy doing kind things towards others. It's what I'm immediately inclined towards. My motivation isn't to feel good but I also wonder after the fact if the reason I do it is because I find it right therefore it makes me feel good, if that makes sense.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
10,094
I think it's a really interesting question. Like the whole- is there such thing as true altruism?

In general terms, morality is a human construction. I think there are complex reasons we choose to act in a moral way or not and I agree- I feel like a lot of it is what we have been taught- what's ingrained effectively. So- whether we can live with ourselves if we contradict our learned sense of right and wrong.

I think altruism does play a part though via empathy. Can we stand to watch someone else suffer or, will we try to help them? Again- some of that is taught- we're often taught to help people who are struggling. But, I think some of it is innate.

Whether that can be classed as 'good' though- if it is actually innate- is something else. I think it was Richard Dawkins who said we have developed altruistic genes because we live in societies. It benefits us as a species to work together in a society environment.

With regards to the actual question, I can see it from @Trismegistus_13 point of view- that a good act does good whether it was well intentioned or not. Their example of giving to charity is true obviously. However, I'd argue that it is possible for something to look moral outwardly when in fact, the truth is murkier.

This is a very extreme example (NSFW warning for child sexual abuse) but I think most people would have problems with this for example: Jimmy Saville (a UK TV entertainer) was estimated to have raised £40 million for charity. He also sexually abused hundreds of children.

Was it 'moral' of him to raise money for a new development at a hospital where he went on to abuse the patients? The hospital did and I'm sure still does a great deal of good too. I imagine most people would agree though that his involvement with it wasn't for altruistic reasons- even if he raised £40 billion! It was obviously a smoke screen to conceal his true identity and it gave him access (literally) to vulnerable victims.

So- in my opinion- it depends. It's not to rubbish what good people do for this world. I personally find it curious to ponder about our motivations for things. Even our own motivations for things. Some people take huge offence at that. I guess it is a rather cynical view of people but, I'll hold my hands up to being cynical. Even of myself.

In part though because- sometimes it is necessary to question someone's motives. In the very worst and extreme of cases- like the Saville case- maybe if people had looked a little closer (although, it seems like it was almost an open secret) and questioned whether he was really as good as he pretended to be. Why he wanted so much access to children's hospitals- maybe hundreds of them could have been spared being molested or raped. I expect they still would have raised a lot of money without his help.

Some of it is to protect ourselves. If a stranger offers a young, attractive female a ride home in his car- should she accept? On the face of it- it seems like a kind act. If I had a daughter though- I'd tell her not to accept it. Not worth the risk. (Proabably goes the same for anyone- regardless of gender or looks to be fair. Getting in a strangers car carries risk for both parties.)

Of course- I'm not saying all people who raise money for children's charities are doing it for ulterior, perverted reasons. That's such an extreme example but I'd argue- it is a legitimate one. A minority of people do indeed use moral acts to disguise what they're really up to.

I think the degree as to which it is still a good act or isn't depends on how bad their ulterior motive is. If it's simply to feel good about themselves, that's nice really. They are obviously good deep down- for whatever reason. A well mannered upbringing, kind genes. If they're using it to try and improve their tarnished image, maybe we might feel a bit cynical towards them still but hey- at least other people will benefit. If it's to mask criminal intent though- that's something else. Can anyone truly accept that in order to raise millions, even billions- someone or multiple people will get hurt? I doubt any amount of money can excuse child molestation and rape.
 
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Warlord's Pulse

Warlord's Pulse

Time to end this endless war
May 27, 2024
202
I believe morality is overrated as a whole. In fact, I think it's a useless term. Everything is done for one's own benefit, in my understanding. If you feel good from performing a specific action because it aligns with your moral beliefs it is still done for yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that although I do prefer people who are able to recognize that the motivation is always still selfish and that that is okay.
Most things we do don't need a motivation at all, we don't do then rationally
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
21,207
I consider all deeds immoral when done by an inherently immoral person, like me. No amount of good deeds can redeem me, at least not ones I can realistically do.
 
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plutoaquarius

plutoaquarius

Member
Oct 24, 2024
17
How to prove another's motivation is about image. I think we all have the innate desire to contribute and be in service in some way.
 
ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
5,337
No, what matters is the deed itself, not the intention behind it. I wouldn't give a shit if somebody gave me N for a bad intention as I want the N itself. Similarly, the bad deeds done are just as bad regardless of the intentions behind it.
How to prove another's motivation is about image. I think we all have the innate desire to contribute and be in service in some way.
Speak for yourself, I personally have no desire to contribute or be of service. I just want to be out of here entirely, that's it
 
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L

lionetta12

Just a random person
Aug 5, 2022
1,201
(when I say for their own benefit I mean for their image / to make themselves feel better about themselves)

I want to know other people's opinions on this because I'm still debating myself.
This is my problem with religious people, because they are nice and all and act morally correct usually, but in the back of my mind I know that they are doing it most likely just to be able to go to "heaven" aka for their own benefit, not because they genuinly care about others.
 
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ZeroM24

ZeroM24

Student
Oct 31, 2024
105
The only somewhat relevant aspect of "measuring" good or evil is how much pain is caused by an action. Cause morality can be ANYTHING, the most violent religious texts are considered as the peak of moral behaviour for many people.
 
D

Deleted member 8119

Warlock
Feb 6, 2024
765
I believe morality is overrated as a whole. In fact, I think it's a useless term. Everything is done for one's own benefit, in my understanding. If you feel good from performing a specific action because it aligns with your moral beliefs it is still done for yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that although I do prefer people who are able to recognize that the motivation is always still selfish and that that is okay.
Such BS, many people do deeds even if it harms them, and many people are more set on the benefit of a whole community with little sense of self.
 
pilotviolin

pilotviolin

looking to the horizon
Jan 27, 2024
361
i question this alot and when i found overthinking this stopped me from doing good deeds or feeling good about them, and sometimes still does, i have to think that ok well maybe im not the most interested at times but i dont want the other person to be exploited or hurt at the end of the day. what the person wants for themselves may be seperate from what they want for the other person to a point where it doesnt affect the other parties or surrounding negatively. however, that could just be my rationalisation and im interested in other peoples perspectives here about putting power in intent when it comes to others.
 
kunikuzushi

kunikuzushi

sause
Jan 24, 2023
298
No. Intention doesn't matter. If the good deed is done, the good deed is done.
 
bleeding_heart_show

bleeding_heart_show

Member
Dec 23, 2023
49
Intent does not matter because the person on the receiving end of the good deed will benefit the same regardless.
 
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untothedepths

untothedepths

ego death, then death
Mar 20, 2023
593
i dont trust them. selfish people wont do shit unless something greatly benefits them as an example. dont trust most of humanity for shit.
 
T

ThisGameIsOverrated

Experienced
May 6, 2024
200
a good deed is a good deed, the material world doesn't care what someone's motives are but it would make me hesitate to praise the person for doing it or to view the person as a good person in general since they'd happily do bad if it benefitted them.
 

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