Do you know a person closely to purely good? Do people like this even exist?

[noname223]

I had this question when I watched the news. There is one guy I kind of admire for his engagement. Though I don't know him in real life. Maybe the way how the media reports about him is distorted. I am not an expert about him.
But first I come to a story why one should be careful with such an evaluation. There is a guy I think of. His name is Abiy Ahmed. Here is a long story about him. Have not read this particular one but I have read others in my native language.

The Nobel Peace Prize That Paved the Way for War (Published 2021)

This is the story behind how Ethiopia’s prime minister, Abiy Ahmed, won a Nobel Prize for making peace with his country’s longtime enemy — and then used the alliance to plan a war.

www.nytimes.com

This politican won the noble peace price, then he used his prestige in order to prepare for a war. And now it is probably even a genocide. So someone who won the noble peace prize contributes to a genocide. This is so sick and disgusting. I think there were some people who warned about him before giving him the prize but they did not listen to him. I think this is a good story why reality might be treacherous.

I really like the UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres. I kind of admire him. When I listen to speeches of him I can really feel this human has empathy. I sometimes have the feeling one can really pereive his dedication to help other people. He probably also has his faults. But despite his powerful position I have the feeling this dude stayed a relatable person. I have the feeling I sometimes hear the pain in his voice when he talks about things like genocides.

Maybe I had another notion if I knew more about him. I think it is obivous in his position you also have to negotiate with satan in person. And of course one can criticize that. Though personally I think this is a cruel necessity.

Now when I think about people I know closely. I think my closest friends are truely good people. Though if you know people that closely we all recognize noone is a saint. Everyone has his or her flaws. Everyone has a past. I find it weird. I meet many peole in college who try to be good people. Some try to behave morally right. I ask myself where were these people when I was bullied as a teenager? Are my bullies now also these wanna-be good people? About some I doubt it. I don't want to think about them too much. But with me they probably have contributed a lot to my suicide. Though I would not tell it them. I try to forget them. I don't want revenge. For me I would even more scared they made fun of my pain. I think some of them were truely evil.

I can remember one of Noam Chomsky's interviews. He explained why he is now supporting normally the underdog. There was an obese boy (like me when I was young) at his school. Everyone made fun of him. Chomsky could remember one specific day. He did not helped the bullied child, Not sure if he also bullied him I think he was not explicit about that. I think he rather described it vague as peer pressure. And he regrets that till today. It is kind of an admirable story that he could remember that.

I don't know I don't have any benefits if my bullies regret their actions. I don' t want any sorry or anything. My life is utterly destroyed. There is almost nothing that they could do.

Okay maybe a last person. There is a girl I know. I talked about her before. Sadly we lost the connection maybe I have some chance to see her again in the future. She is like 90% of her time delusional. Probably rather 99% of the time. She always stops to take her mediciation, she is bipolar and had psychosis. She is very very unstable and not fully sane like all the time. I hated when people talked pejoratively about her. When she is manic she is a little cheeky. But I don't find that that horrible. Despite the fact people knew about her illness they judged her for that. I don't know I have the feeling she is not really sane. And in some sense this turns her into kind of an innocent person for me. Not sure if this is the same as purely good. Probably not.

Do you like or admire someone for his or her empathy? I know some people here in this forum rather think all humans can be cruel. Some turn to animals and consider them as innocent. Personally I cannot really see that. I know it is natural but when I see cats torturing mice slowly and how they enjoy that. I cannot really consider this innocent or purely good. Now I could start a huge debate whether animals can be evil or not? Are we humans evil because in general we have the gift of being able to reflect on our actions? Though we decide against the good path? Honestly this thread is already way too long. But it was an interesting one for me.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I ask myself where were these people when I was bullied as a teenager?

They were probably afraid of being bullied too. They're not really wrong, I used to(technically still do) intervene when people were bullying others offline and online and received backlash and enmity for it constantly. I'd do it again though.

I think most people in society are selfish and have flaws, act in their own self-interest. I don't really have any good examples in my own family. They say that people show a morally good side in public because its popular. One example they give is that if a teacher asks a question to their class, everyone will have the same answer, regardless of what they'd do in real life. I try to be morally good because I think it's right. I'm not religious and don't believe in afterlife, I just think it's right.

Bullying is awful and society is too dismissive of it.

Humans are more cruel & evil than animals because we have more responsibility and should know better how our actions affect others. I don't favour animals over humans but all of the pain in my life comes from other people.

I think society wouldn't recognize a person that was purely good, because they wouldn't look that different to anyone else. Kindness in fact brews suspicion and with good reason, since people often have ulterior motives or they're just virtue signalling, etc. I think it's also possible for people to believe that yourself is kind, when in fact there are different motives, impulses and temptations at play. Even evil people often believe they are a good person themselves.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

My mom. When she was alive she would help and/or listen to just about anyone who needed it. Her level of kindness and non judgemental outlook is so rare its like spotting a unicorn. World is a bit shittier since she passed....

 

[chloramine]

I think there are more people than we give credit to trying to be good. That effort does matter. It's not the only thing that matters. It's not like "oh I wasn't trying to hurt you so it doesn't count". Both intentions and outcomes matter. Unfortunately there are also all kinds of different ideas about what it means to be good, so even when outcomes and intentions match it can still be harmful without being malicious.

We all fail because we're all human and screwed up in some way. Overall I do believe most people are at least trying to be decent.

 

[CTB Dream]

Many human animal poor put life situation hard cruel struggle force do bad same flow energy move one person other, think many try good problem limit human body try all time good life all time bad body damage. Make pure remove reason cruelty human be better compsred now

 

[Cerulea]

Perhaps thinking of this in such binary, absolute ways is a bit of a disservice. The purest form of anything when we're talking about humans and their brains is a tempting thought but often not too prevalent in the reality. We can't be purely good or evil. We can have natural impulses in either direction.

Do I think people exist who navigate their lives trying to wield their powers for good? Sure. Do I think they're in the majority? No. Our environmental understandings and takeaways are largely rather different. We have instincts built in that nature ensured we would have to reckon with. How we interact with one another is tied closely to our instincts, which are tied to our learned experiences and perspectives. Multiple people sharing the same experience will likely interact with it and be effected by it differently. It's rough to judge when we don't have consensus around it.

But, again, I do think there are positive forces in the world. I think it's nuanced. I myself do not possess the ability to say that I reasonably think there is enough, let alone more, good in the world. People who have been harmed often perpetuate harm. As a species, unfortunately, we seem to be ill equipped in providing people with conditions secure or fulfilling enough to help them through the trauma creating what we see. One thought that scared the hell out of me years ago was realizing people may not BE evil, but they very well make evil choices. Everyone's villain is someone different to someone else. Innocence is a tough one for me. I don't believe in it as a concept so I certain don't think there are any real innocent creatures. Nature is a wild ride. We're bags of meat driven by electrical impulses.

As for your bullies, this struck me. Anyone who abuses you is difficult to overcome, mentally. I hear that you don't want revenge. And after surviving traumatic situations with people who hurt you deeply, it's a miracle some days that we don't want revenge. The part that doesn't really feel so good is understanding that they too are human beings who need to evolve. When we know better, we're supposed to DO better. Bullying you was wrong. They deserve to know that it was wrong, know that it caused harm to another person, and not inflict that impulse on anyone else. Similarly to how you reference Chomsky being effected by his participatory experience. The idea that there may be less pain to others as a byproduct of our abuse doesn't exactly make it feel any better. At least not for a long time.

 

[Celerity]

A coworker of mine is the sweetest person I have ever met. When we went out on a day off, I expected to see some drop in her sweetness as time went on, but she never changed. She is so understanding of everyone, even people who don't deserve it. The sad part is that she has had a very tough life that is only getting harder. She doesn't complain though.

I feel like she's the poster child for showing that good people don't always (or often) lead good lives.

 

[Anonymus]

I honestly think that the members of this forum are good people, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Bad people couldn't write here.

But there are many concepts of what is good and what a kind person would be. For me it's what I wrote.

//

Jo sincerament penso que els membres d'aquest fórum sóm bones persones, sinó no estariem aquí.
Les males persones no podrien escriure aquí.

Però hi ha molt conceptes del que es bó i del que sería una persona bondadosa. Per mi es el que he escrit.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Yes, they do exist. My mother was one of the truly good ones in this world. Not a mean bone in her body and kind to everyone.

 

[Subhumano]

me

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Old thread, but anyway, there is no such thing as a "closely to purely good person". I don't even think that labelling people as either good or bad even makes sense. For one, our standards of good or bad are always going to be subjective, at least in some capacity, meaning that there will always be someone out there who would likely not view you as a good person. In some cases, you could be viewed as a perfect representation of a model citizen at one point in time and be looked back upon as an awful cruel person by those in the future due to the natural way in which the morals of our society change with time. That's not even getting into the fact that a lot of people who seem "closely or purely good" usually have done some awful and/or questionable shit in their lives and/or might hold some not-so-great views. You aren't them, nor have you been around them every waking moment of their life, nor do you have access to all of their private thoughts, so you don't know anything about them outside of the one side of them that they are willing to show you. Your views of someone you consider to be good may change dramatically if you know them on a more intimate level.

At the end of the day, people are complex. They are too complex to categorized as either good or bad. It's easy to get carried away by the idea of trying to look for this mystical "good person" but they don't really exist. Humans are kind of just messy and all over the place, contradicting themselves and sometimes acting out in ways that they don't fully understand. I honestly feel like trying to categorize others as good or bad, despite it maybe feeling convenient, is actually harmful and can even play a role in furthering the oppression of others.

 

[deadeyesnowman]

Nah, I don't believe in this bullshit.

Everyone is a two-faced maniac, nuff said. You are naive to believe if there's such a person existing because every single human is a disgusting piece of shit.

 

[Buh-bye!]

Nah, I don't believe in this bullshit.

Everyone is a two-faced maniac, nuff said. You are naive to believe if there's such a person existing because every single human is a disgusting piece of shit.

Agreed. Hard rrrrrrrrrrr-

 

[bpd_sucks]

they absolutely do exist! I have a very special friend who i've known since college who is the purest soul i've ever met. We have a long distance band together and my lyrics are obviously very sad, and their lyrics are always sooooo joyful. It's kind of a fun juxtaposition, and it always reveals how hopeless I feel in life, and how positive they feel. Best friend :) I hope everyone gets to meet someone like that.

 

[derpyderpins]

I think people tend to be more good than bad. Definitions are tough, of course. The big question here is how we define being "purely" good.

I reject the idea of postmodernism that says everything is subjective and there's no universal good/bad. I just disagree. It's a grey area and hard to define a lot of the time, but not impossible.

Brutally murdering a random innocent person who preferred life? Bad.

Helping an old lady across the street? Generally going to be good.

Littering? Not as bad as murder, but bad nonetheless.

We have clear things like that, and then a lot of in-between:

• Giving to a political cause: you think it's a good cause, but I think it's bad, it's hard to trace the real impact of your money - grey all over the place.
• Being very patient: generally good, but at some point you are letting people walk over you which can be bad. Similarly,
• Spoiling v. Disciplining a child: somewhere in there is a proper balance, probably, but it's all kind of grey.

These examples question a sort of "overall utility" theory of good. But even that is imperfect. Follow that road too far and you get to authoritarianism (I know what's best for you, after all). We're bad at estimating - because it's hard! - the far-reaching effects of actions. So, say I take authoritarian control and implement rules that, on paper, are great for everyone: how does it affect people over time to know that they have no independence and I'm completely in control? Probably not good, but who can really say? (It's no secret that I think people must be allowed autonomy and independence, personally).

Because good can't be perfectly defined, intent has to be a big part of what we look at for the purely good person. In my mind a key is the non-aggression principle, you don't hurt/attack me first, then I won't hurt/attack you. The question is if you try to leave people who interact with you "up" in the transaction. Do you encourage, support, listen, empathize, etc.? Non-aggression, however, doesn't mean you won't be aggressive to defend yourself or others.

People are flawed, so mistakes will be made. You want to follow non-aggression and be good, but what do your slip-ups look like? Do you apologize or make amends? Do you work on yourself to limit the frequency of that happening? Do you take personal responsibility and hold yourself personally accountable? Or, do you lean on and take advantage of others? Everyone needs help sometimes, but if you ask for help are you sure to pay them back, or do you build up a lot of positivity with them so there is excess to use in that request for help?

Throw in the mix some "purity" tests. Is it good to drink? Probably not, but I see nothing wrong with having a little to loosen up relax with friends. Is it good to watch porn? Probably not. Is it good to be lazy? Probably not. But, at the same time, it's your life. To me, if you aren't harming others, that doesn't necessarily take away from your status as a "good" person.

Then I have to ask: do you need to do the optimal thing to be good? That's really hard. If someone collapses, do you rush in to help them? If there's an emergency, do you put yourself in front of your partner to protect them? If you freeze in those situations, you aren't actively doing a bad thing, but can we say you were purely good if you fail to step up? (I worry about this a lot. I haven't been tested enough to know how I'd act.)

I often say "niceness" is an overrated quality compared to "goodness." I think to be purely good, you must:

• prefer "good" to "bad";
• prioritize "good" even when it is not in your best interest, personally; and
• avoid harming others

but that's not quite enough. The world stays the same if that's our baseline. I think you must also

• Actively try to grow as a person to be able to do more "good";
• Live with intellectual curiosity to understand the human condition and better define "good" and "bad"; and
• actively stand up against/avoid "bad."

I'd give most people a passing grade on the top 3. Fewer and fewer are doing the bottom 3, which allows great evil to do the equivalent "bad" to overwrite millions of people who are "good" to the minimal degree.

I'd be a fool to say I've made it to a point where I qualify as "purely good". I think @LaVieEnRose could be. I think @Saturn_ will be and is on the right path. My wife is probably closer than I am, and we're both growing together. It's very hard, especially in the modern world, where our lifestyle and surroundings numb us out.

 

[Cauliflour]

Probably my brother. He's so damn selfless that he makes me feel bad when I ask him to help with the dishes because I didn't have to bribe him (but I did anyway because I made too much cake that day).

 

[LittleMagician]

I had this question when I watched the news. There is one guy I kind of admire for his engagement. Though I don't know him in real life. Maybe the way how the media reports about him is distorted. I am not an expert about him.
But first I come to a story why one should be careful with such an evaluation. There is a guy I think of. His name is Abiy Ahmed. Here is a long story about him. Have not read this particular one but I have read others in my native language.

The Nobel Peace Prize That Paved the Way for War (Published 2021)

This is the story behind how Ethiopia’s prime minister, Abiy Ahmed, won a Nobel Prize for making peace with his country’s longtime enemy — and then used the alliance to plan a war.

www.nytimes.com

This politican won the noble peace price, then he used his prestige in order to prepare for a war. And now it is probably even a genocide. So someone who won the noble peace prize contributes to a genocide. This is so sick and disgusting. I think there were some people who warned about him before giving him the prize but they did not listen to him. I think this is a good story why reality might be treacherous.

I really like the UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres. I kind of admire him. When I listen to speeches of him I can really feel this human has empathy. I sometimes have the feeling one can really pereive his dedication to help other people. He probably also has his faults. But despite his powerful position I have the feeling this dude stayed a relatable person. I have the feeling I sometimes hear the pain in his voice when he talks about things like genocides.

Maybe I had another notion if I knew more about him. I think it is obivous in his position you also have to negotiate with satan in person. And of course one can criticize that. Though personally I think this is a cruel necessity.

Now when I think about people I know closely. I think my closest friends are truely good people. Though if you know people that closely we all recognize noone is a saint. Everyone has his or her flaws. Everyone has a past. I find it weird. I meet many peole in college who try to be good people. Some try to behave morally right. I ask myself where were these people when I was bullied as a teenager? Are my bullies now also these wanna-be good people? About some I doubt it. I don't want to think about them too much. But with me they probably have contributed a lot to my suicide. Though I would not tell it them. I try to forget them. I don't want revenge. For me I would even more scared they made fun of my pain. I think some of them were truely evil.

I can remember one of Noam Chomsky's interviews. He explained why he is now supporting normally the underdog. There was an obese boy (like me when I was young) at his school. Everyone made fun of him. Chomsky could remember one specific day. He did not helped the bullied child, Not sure if he also bullied him I think he was not explicit about that. I think he rather described it vague as peer pressure. And he regrets that till today. It is kind of an admirable story that he could remember that.

I don't know I don't have any benefits if my bullies regret their actions. I don' t want any sorry or anything. My life is utterly destroyed. There is almost nothing that they could do.

Okay maybe a last person. There is a girl I know. I talked about her before. Sadly we lost the connection maybe I have some chance to see her again in the future. She is like 90% of her time delusional. Probably rather 99% of the time. She always stops to take her mediciation, she is bipolar and had psychosis. She is very very unstable and not fully sane like all the time. I hated when people talked pejoratively about her. When she is manic she is a little cheeky. But I don't find that that horrible. Despite the fact people knew about her illness they judged her for that. I don't know I have the feeling she is not really sane. And in some sense this turns her into kind of an innocent person for me. Not sure if this is the same as purely good. Probably not.

Do you like or admire someone for his or her empathy? I know some people here in this forum rather think all humans can be cruel. Some turn to animals and consider them as innocent. Personally I cannot really see that. I know it is natural but when I see cats torturing mice slowly and how they enjoy that. I cannot really consider this innocent or purely good. Now I could start a huge debate whether animals can be evil or not? Are we humans evil because in general we have the gift of being able to reflect on our actions? Though we decide against the good path? Honestly this thread is already way too long. But it was an interesting one for me.

No they don't exist