Discussion Do you think both pro-choice topics in politics (assisted suicide and abortion) should be discussed totally separated or not?

[noname223]

I am ambivalent about it. Sometimes I am annoyed that both are associated with the label pro-choice it can lead to misunderstandings.
But I am on both very liberal. There were critics who said that in this forum there is a too strong competition who is the most pro-choice person. I think this could be true. It is a difficult topic to talk about without becoming too obsessed about ideologies and labels.

I think being pro-choice on abortion is globally speaking more widespread. In Germany liberal assisted suicide laws are more controversial than abortion rights. But polls show Germans welcome both.

Many dogmatic religious people oppose both. The US has way more of them than in Germany.

I don't have a good input but I am interested in good replies.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

Everything should be separated from politics.

Here, I'd only create even more enemies, harassment, heat and anger around it. Anything that gets politized will get a huge chunk of people rationalizing hating on it and have even more conflict than it already has.

 

[noname223]

Everything should be separated from politics. Here, I'd only create even more enemies, harassment, heat and anger around it.

I am not sure whether you understood my question right. Not the topics should separated from politics. But both of the topics should discussed in completely separate ways as if there was no connection between them.

I am not a native speaker it is probably my fault.

 

[Agon321]

I think that these two topics should be approached separately.

I support abortion on demand and euthanasia.
I am generally liberal in many things.

But I would not like the discussion about abortion to be combined with the discussion about euthanasia.
Of course, both of these topics have a common denominator: the autonomy of one's own body.
But I think that in this situation it is better to focus on one topic.

The topic of abortion and euthanasia is polarizing enough, so there is no need to make the situation worse.

 

[wallavenue]

Separate. These are very different issues, that when discussed together may actually make both sides arguments weaker.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think they should be split. I don't think it's right to say if someone believes or supports one thing, that automatically means they should support another. There are plenty of nuances to both arguments.

I expect many people would support abortion in the case of rape. I expect many would support assisted suicide for the terminally or even chronically ill. Some may hesitate if the pregnancy is through carelessness and is very far along. Plenty will argue against minors having access to assisted suicide without debilitating circumstances being present.

I think another interesting argument is- can you be pro-choice and a natilist. Because- children don't get the choice to come here and we're not exactly given free choice to leave once we are here. That's what I find so ironic about the whole: 'My body, my choice' slogan for the rights of women to abort. It's describing that baby as an extention of its mothers body when- it isn't. It's the start of another life that very probably didn't get the choice to be germinated or killed off early. I think they should donate that slogan to 'the right to die' movement. It's far more apt for us.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

'My body, my choice' slogan for the rights of women to abort. It's describing that baby as an extention of its mothers body when- it isn't.

Yeah, um, they aren't a baby yet. They aren't considered babies until they are born. Before then, they are considered to be neonates. Also, considering the fact thst they are growing within the mothers body, leeching off of them like a parasite to survive, "my body, my choice" still applies here. It's my body, so it's my choice as to whether or not I want to carry them to full term and give birth to them or get rid of them and not have to suffer for months due to pregnancy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yeah, um, they aren't a baby yet. They aren't considered babies until they are born. Before then, they are considered to be neonates. Also, considering the fact thst they are growing within the mothers body, leeching off of them like a parasite to survive, "my body, my choice" still applies here. It's my body, so it's my choice as to whether or not I want to carry them to full term and give birth to them or get rid of them and not have to suffer for months due to pregnancy.

A 'parasite' they invited in with the 'help' of another. I'm not actually anti abortion by the way. Under pretty much any circumstance actually. I feel like- if a child isn't wanted, the likelihood of it having a good life deminishes even further. Better to spare it the possibility/probability of a shit life. To my mind, abortion is the more humane option.

It's more the phrasing I don't like because it reinforces the idea that we should get the choice on whether or not to expose more beings to this life. Of course, it's unlikely to ever be any other way. Start telling people they can't breed and they'll go nuts. But it's more that it's an ok decision to make- either way and, it's solely down to the parents, especially the mother. Again, it's not like it can be anything else. It's just that via language, it's further enforced that our lives. The decision to bring us here in the first place is something people can casually opt in and out of.

What I'm trying to get across is, this has to work in the other direction too- surely? My choice if I want to pop out a baby. My choice if I want to pop out 10 or 20. My decision. Nevermind what kind of life that child is likely to have. I have the right to breed. Isn't that also implied by 'my body, my choice'? I can get pregnant as many times as I want. I can abort or keep as many as I want and- damn the consequences for the child.

Yes, practically, it can't be any other way but, I'd prefer that phrase to relate to something that solely affects that person. A body piercing, a tatoo. Their own choice to end their own life. Ok, the foetus gets killed before it develops consciousness- so- maybe they aren't a person yet. Still- it's more that that 'choice' also encompasses the choice to have the child which prickles my antinatilist sentiments.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

A 'parasite' they invited in with the 'help' of another. I'm not actually anti abortion by the way. Under pretty much any circumstance actually. I feel like- if a child isn't wanted, the likelihood of it having a good life deminishes even further. Better to spare it the possibility/probability of a shit life. To my mind, abortion is the more humane option.

It's more the phrasing I don't like because it reinforces the idea that we should get the choice on whether or not to expose more beings to this life. Of course, it's unlikely to ever be any other way. Start telling people they can't breed and they'll go nuts. But it's more that it's an ok decision to make- either way and, it's solely down to the parents, especially the mother. Again, it's not like it can be anything else. It's just that via language, it's further enforced that our lives. The decision to bring us here in the first place is something people can casually opt in and out of.

What I'm trying to get across is, this has to work in the other direction too- surely? My choice if I want to pop out a baby. My choice if I want to pop out 10 or 20. My decision. Nevermind what kind of life that child is likely to have. I have the right to breed. Isn't that also implied by 'my body, my choice'? I can get pregnant as many times as I want. I can abort or keep as many as I want and- damn the consequences for the child.

Yes, practically, it can't be any other way but, I'd prefer that phrase to relate to something that solely affects that person. A body piercing, a tatoo. Their own choice to end their own life. Ok, the foetus gets killed before it develops consciousness- so- maybe they aren't a person yet. Still- it's more that that 'choice' also encompasses the choice to have the child which prickles my antinatilist sentiments.

"Like" implies a comparison. It's a simile.

A lot of people don't have sex for breeding purposes. Either way, "my body, my choice" (in this context) is meant to be about the reproductive rights of others. The idea is basically that you should have the ability to opt out of having to give up and sacrifice your body and health for something you may or may not want. It's recognizing the person who is forced to carry said pregnancy and act as an incubator. The neonate is unable to make any decisions for themself, so it would have to be the parents to make that decision. They aren't a person yet. Most fetuses are aborted during the first trimester, with many being aborted before 9 weeks.

I'm not a huge fan of procreation myself, but I feel like the slogan makes sense in the context of abortion. The other stuff in regards to your concerns for the well-being of children are more so issues having to do with child rights and advocacy.