Do you think it is evil to keep people in vegetative state alive without their explicit consent? How should society treat them instead?

[noname223]

I have a patient's decree where I explicitly say I don't want to be kept alive. But I think they would never accept that because I am suicidal. I was too scared to approve this decree by a lawyer. I am quite explicit about suicide. But more importantly I have a health care proxy to my best friend. My parents would keep me alive no matter what. Despite the fact my dad told he would never want that for himself. Hypocrite. I am scared that my parents sue my best friend for turning off the machines. But I will try to kill myself in case I take the SN.

There was thisy story someone posted it here. An American or British girl tried to hang herself. She was bullied beforehand and afterwards when she was in the vegetative state. Which is utterly disgusting. I don't want to know what this poor girl must have felt. Personally, I hope these people can barely think and feel. Because being conscious without being able to express themselves seems to be even worse. But this is very subjective.

The girl tried to hang herself. The paramedics almost gave up. But after a while with no signs of life they were able to revive her: Is rescueing the right word?
She is fully dsabled now. Cannot speak. Cannot move. I think it is not sure how conscious she actually is. I read a post yesterday where they described how people cannot control their bladder and are dependent on help to go to the toilet. After surviving drowning or partial.

The current regulation is: saving one's life no matter what. Which seems reasonable because in a crisis situation one cannot say how big the damage gonna be. And most people actually want to live and would like being saved. But after the damage is the done the situation is different.

Should everyone be forced to sign a patiernt's decree or health care proxy? Honestly, considering the insanely and extremely cruel fates (there are barely any exaggerations on this point) the effort seems to be worth. If it can be realized is a different question. Most people want to avoid dark topics. And voters would probably not like this sad topic. There are not many people who think about such topics voluntarily. The audience in suicide forum is different because for most of us this scenario scares the shit out of us.

Should there be categories where the damage is so extreme that killing the person seems to be the most humanistic thing to do? By the way today I want to post another thread about taboos on SaSu and maybe I am pushing the boundaries with this question.

I think ethically this is a very touchy topic. And forced patient's decree/ proxy seem to be the best solution. But will the people actually do the work and think about i?. I mean on a voluntary basis it is already possible to sign them. But would it even prevent all cases? Because emergency teams don't care about such decrees in crisis situation. This poor girl could not have done anything to prevent that from a legal standpoint as far as I understand it.

What do you think?

 

[TheHolySword]

This isn't an easy question with an easy answer. It's very complex. I don't believe it's evil nor do I necessarily believe it's good. It's a common thought exercise but I find people rarely posit the opposite the question. Without consent, is it right to end their life? The right to live and the right to die should allow themselves in all scenarios. We become arbiters of fate in this situation, so can either choice really be the correct choice when we have no way of knowing what the individual wants? The decision rests with the savior or the executioner, so to speak. But can we really judge them? I don't think so.

 

[imnotsurewhy]

I do think its hard question .i would never want this but i think its up to the person if someone for whatever reason would be able to accept this fate than that person is entitled to that life also it brings up a question what exactly And who chooses what life is worse than death especially if the person the decision is about isnt able fully or at all to make that decision

 

[dontwakemeup]

All medical professionals have rules and guidelines to follow. In an emergency situation medical professionals have to do everything in their power to save your life! Suicide is no different. It doesn't matter if they think you'll be a vegetable or not. When someone dies in let's say a hospital setting, there will he an investigation and everyone needs to clearly state what they did to keep you alive, a Report. You can't say as a Dr, I did nothing because they shot themselves and they would be on life support and I doubt they would have wanted that. You're license to practice would immediately be revoked, no questions asked! You don't have the authority or power to say who you think should live or die.

If you have a DNR-CC, that is great, BUT if it's a suicide attempt I doubt they will honor it. Let's say you shot yourself in hopes of dying and your neighbor heard the gunshot and called 911. They will do everything to keep you alive, that DNR-CC must likely won't be on your chest when they arrive and they will claim you weren't in your correct mental state and they will ignore it.

It basically comes down to people license. They won't risk reprimand because you decided to off yourself. They can't justify letting you sit in a hospital and bleed out and die.

I personally would love to stop existing but I know if I attempt I better be sure nobody can find me in time because they will attempt to save me. You stated your best friend has a proxy, that's great but it won't stop them from saving you. If an emergency happens it's all hands on to keep you alive until your best friend can bring the document to the hospital, not a copy but with a seal. I'm almost certain with suicide attempts they will not honor a DNR-CC.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yes, it's evil and they should be euthanised so that they don't have to suffer anymore. In an ideal scenario though, if suicide wasn't so taboo, we should have a system where we can say beforehand that "if anything bad happens to me that significantly ruins my quality of life, please euthanise me" or something like that. Forcing people to stay alive despite their immense pain is sadistic and they deserve mercy

 

[dontwakemeup]

Yes, it's evil and they should be euthanised so that they don't have to suffer anymore. In an ideal scenario though, if suicide wasn't so taboo, we should have a system where we can say beforehand that "if anything bad happens to me that significantly ruins my quality of life, please euthanise me" or something like that. Forcing people to stay alive despite their immense pain is sadistic and they deserve mercy

I agree! They definitely need to change these laws. I would hate to attempt only to wake up in a worse situation then I was in before. It's a horrible fate. I would be so mad at the Dr who saved me and do everything in my power to write him or her a note that says. "Go to hell!"

 

[Life'sA6itch]

No, that's not life or living. If it were me I would not want any intervention. I would want euthanasia or allow nature to take it's course. I will never understand why I can euthanize a pet but I must suffer, even at the hands of others

 

[LostLily]

If that were me, please pull the plug. Because that doesn't sound like living

 

[kenma0]

i for sure wouldnt want to be left alive if it meant i would be severely disabled... i think most able bodied people know that being disabled to any degree is hard. but to be basically dead while simultaneously alive and in pain or unaware? that sounds like a nightmare for anyone...

is it evil? evil isnt the right word... but our society is heavily anti-death. and that reflects on the medical choices doctors and family members make for others who cannot communicate. i think more people should feel empathy for the ones in those extremely disabled states. would they themselves want to live like that?

but, mentally healthy people could never understand the urge to die, so i doubt any sort of empathy in that regard could come from someone who wants to keep a suicidal loved one alive after a brutal, but survived attempt...

 

[Mirrory Me]

Hmm... Going into sleep and never waking up, or being constantly awere of surroundings but aren't able to interact...

 

[M19R]

I think it depends really. If they never hadve a chance of waking up again then i think keeping them alive prolongs any suffering they may be feeling and unable to communicate and it also leaves their family in emotional limbo unable to move on. I do think though if there's a chance they'll wake up or their condition can/will improve enough to treat somehow, then it's probably best to keep them alive.