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Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
That's how anything suicide-related works in the corporate world. It's a faux pas to bring up the subject at all, even in relation to a news article or anything distracted, let alone talking about your own views on the matter. In some industries this becomes more obvious than in others.

In the attorney sector, suicidality typically comes to you in two situations: when you're failing, or when you're succeeding too much.

I haven't thought about this until I had this unexpectedly candid conversation a few weeks ago. He was a former colleague who changed jobs about a year ago, as he didn't like the political slant of our place and wanted something purely business-oriented. As a pure consultant, he bills 3500 hours per year, which would require an effective work year of about 4500-5000 hours. This means a work week of about 90-100 hours. For reference, one year contains about 8736 hours in total, and the work year of an average 9-5 wage slave is about 1800 hours.

We were having your average catch-up networking AW on the terrace of a quaint side-street restaurant, the sort with tiny round tables and cute flower arrangements on the facade. These used to be empty during most of the pandemic, but now that the restrictions relax, this is the first kind of place people flock back to first. Surprisingly, he wasn't late to the appointment and didn't look different from his usual.

After finishing his fifth beer while I was still on my first, he began confessing in a calm voice. How the evening time with his kids turned from 20 minutes per kid to 3 minutes per kid. How he has booked a sports evening last week with his old friends, but didn't watch a moment of the game because he spent the evening proofreading a contract on his phone. How he had to operated for a stress-related stomach ulcer and how many billable hours he lost because of that. How, despite his income, he doesn't have a penny of savings because everything is consumed by the lifestyle (he owns a Lamborghini and like 5 Rolex watches but that's hardly "savings"). He didn't go into details about his relationship with his photomodel girlfriend (for obvious reasons) but I've talked to her some time ago and apparently he's not doing so hot the few nights a month she gets to spend with him. And, finally, how much he thinks about death. He thinks about suicide every free moment he has.

I asked him if he's going to change jobs again, and he will. I don't know the statistics of that firm but he's probably a top performer there, and if you've ever known a top performer you know they can't simply relax their gears and become mediocre for the sake of health. It's easier to self-destruct. So he's going to switch from an attorney to general counsel (a role with no billing requirements and a largely 9-5 workday) at some manufacturing company. His effective pay will be about 1/3 of what it is now and he's going to become poor and miserable, and probably get in debt. Can high-earners be poor, miserable and in debt? Well, remember that he has no savings. The 100% cost life isn't something you can abandon overnight even if your salary now can only support 33% of it.

Even so, it's better than feeling like he feels now. It's better than getting a nervous breakdown or another stomach ulcer. It's better than being overwhelmed by the suicidal ideation and making it reality.

I just listened and gave vaguely affirmative replies without talking about my own stance on the topic. He was breaking a taboo and he wouldn't do that if he didn't think I'd understand, so I didn't have to confirm or deny anything out loud. He was both right and wrong. I do understand, but my reasons are different. I'll never find out what anyone thinks about my reasons because I'll never share them with anyone the way he did that evening. His story didn't touch me emotionally like I think he hoped it would, and like I pretended it did, but it's been on my mind.
 
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Midgardsorm

Midgardsorm

Paragon
Apr 28, 2020
917
This really hits deep. I feel for him. Obviously money is important but when he says about spending less time with his kids, stomach ulcer, suicide, we can definitely see what his work hours has done with him.

I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini and Rolex watches but I'm might be saying this because I'm poor.

Kinda hard to switch jobs, change lifestyle and just like you said, it's going to have a strong impact on his lifestyle and probably his kids lifestyles too.
Sad to think that when he switches his job, the new lifestyle might be another reason for suicidal thoughts.

I hope all goes well for him. Probably won't be easy though.

I understand why you wouldn't share your opinions. I have my reasons as well.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
Fucked people come in all shapes & sizes... It's hard for me to feel terribly sorry for him, but that's just because I'm prejudiced against men who drive Lamborghinis, waste money on 5 Rolex watches, fuck models & spend 3 minutes per evening with each of their kids.
 
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Midgardsorm

Midgardsorm

Paragon
Apr 28, 2020
917
Fucked people come in all shapes & sizes... It's hard for me to feel terribly sorry for him, but that's just because I'm prejudiced against men who drive Lamborghinis, waste money on 5 Rolex watches, fuck models & spend 3 minutes per evening with each of their kids.

But he is trying to spend more time with his kids. I guess ...

Hmm now that I think about it. He could make a lot of money selling the Lamborghini. Would he do it? For his kids, of course.

Aaaaand would the model still fuck with him when he do it?
 
motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
But he is trying to spend more time with his kids. I guess ...

Hmm now that I think about it. He could make a lot of money selling the Lamborghini. Would he do it? For his kids, of course.

Aaaaand would the model still fuck with him when he do it?
He needs to learn to downscale. Rich people give that advice to those who have nothing all the time.
 
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Pure

Pure

Specialist
Jun 29, 2021
366
This seems completely fixable lol....does he not have any money in the stock market? Like @hotelbeneathground he needs to learn to downscale. He may lose his trophy wife though.
 
Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
He needs to learn to downscale.
These problems have less to do with being rich and more to do with being a workaholic. There are plenty of workaholics who are not rich and have simular situations, minus the Lamborghini. There are also plenty of people who are rich and don't have these problems because they're not workaholics.

Telling a late stage workaholic to downscale is like telling a late stage alcoholic to get sober. Yeah, he might rally his willpower and get sober... and instead get delirium tremens. Getting sober is no longer the solution; that bridge was burned a long time ago.

This seems completely fixable lol....does he not have any money in the stock market? Like @hotelbeneathground he needs to learn to downscale. He may lose his trophy wife though.
You think it's fixable because you're imagining yourself in his situation and thinking what you'd do based on your own personality. And since you don't have that sort of personality, you would never get those problems to start with, so it's a pretty moot point. I'm sure he has a stock portfolio but it's hardly of a size that will stop the financial crunch he has in front of him.

It was implied that his girlfriend is the one who pushed the change. Some women do want a family life rather than being together with an absentee moneybag. I generally doubt he'd randomly decide to quit on his own, see the alcoholic analogy above.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
Telling a late stage workaholic to downscale is like telling a late stage alcoholic to get sober. Yeah, he might rally his willpower and get sober... and instead get delirium tremens. Getting sober is no longer the solution; that bridge was burned a long time ago.

I know, I was just being bitchy. I admitted I was prejudiced against him. He's just another helpless victim of his genes & environment. Maybe he'll discover SS & things will work out for him.
 
Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
Maybe he'll discover SS & things will work out for him.
I doubt he has time for browsing the internet. I can afford to do this because I have no private life so there are a couple free hours in a day, but that's because I'm a deviant. That's why there are not so many billers on this site even though many of them would love it here.
 
Fakereality

Fakereality

Student
Aug 4, 2021
130
Idk why but I don't really feel anything for the guy he has played the game of life and has got what he wanted in life and what so many other wants in life "success" it's another thing that he's unhappy with the prize but he does has an option to scale down and aim for a smaller prize but alas the guy seems to have gotten gotten addicted to the current prize.
 
Fakereality

Fakereality

Student
Aug 4, 2021
130
So this is what poor people actually believe.
Idk what you meant by that but this is what I thought idk what other "poor" people believe neither I represent them.
 
Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
Idk what you meant by that but this is what I thought idk what other "poor" people believe neither I represent them.
Past a certain point there's no such thing as downscaling. The only way down is bankruptcy.
 
Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
Why is that so?
If you suddenly lose your job, it could be economically sound for you to move out of your rental apartment and become homeless. But you don't want to downscale to a homeless life. You're going to find ways to hold on to your contract because the pain of being homeless is more than the pain of whatever stunts you have to pull to scrounge up rent every month. Only the truly apathetic would just shrug their shoulders, turn in the keys and go lie down in a ditch. People pushed into a corner are going to fight to the bitter end until they get evicted by force.

This is exactly the same thing, just a step up on the wealth ladder.
 
T

toforigivelife

Arcanist
Jul 5, 2021
493
And to think that people feel suicidal because haven't made it to the top like he has, because they are not making the money he is making, because they don't have a model for a girlfriend.

He's in bad shape emotionally. He's in a dark, profoundly painful place.

I don't know if he would consider making these changes or if he's just too overwhelmed to even consider it; sell all assets in order to get out of debt, if living a simpler, quieter life would be better for him maybe move to small or smaller town, buy an affordable home, enjoy nature (I don't even know if small town living and nature is what would make him happy), take a less stressful job and maybe, in the future, if he's up for it, apply his law degree to a degree in something he enjoys.

You're on SS, so you're not in a good place either, but this guy was reaching out to you. We all know how hard it is to reach out when you're suicidal.

If you can handle it try and reach back. Even just to let him know that you understand where he's coming from, that even though he'd be seen as the picture of success that you understand why he's suicidal.

Maybe run my suggestions past him.

He might really need to hear that. Sometimes having even just one person understand and empathize with you can make all the difference in the world.

You may not be able to save him but at least someone tried.
 
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Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
And to think that people feel suicidal because haven't made it to the top like he has, because they are not making the money he is making, because they don't have a model for a girlfriend.

He's in bad shape emotionally. He's in a dark, profoundly painful place.

I don't know if he would consider making these changes or if he's just too overwhelmed to even consider it; sell all assets in order to get out of debt, if living a simpler, quieter life would be better for him maybe move to small or smaller town, buy an affordable home, enjoy nature (I don't even know if small town living and nature is what would make him happy), take a less stressful job and maybe, in the future, if he's up for it, apply his law degree to a degree in something he enjoys.

You're on SS, so you're not in a good place either, but this guy was reaching out to you. We all know how hard it is to reach out when you're suicidal.

If you can handle it try and reach back. Even just to let him know that you understand where he's coming from, that even though he'd be seen as the picture of success that you understand why he's suicidal.

Maybe run my suggestions past him.

He might really need to hear that. Sometimes having even just one person understand and empathize with you can make all the difference in the world.

You may not be able to save him but at least someone tried.
I'm good at pretending that I care, but I really don't. I also don't want any unnecessary discussions with his jealous drama queen girlfriend. My only service to him will be to have listened and to keep the secret. The nature of our relationships doesn't make room for anything more.

He's not stupid and knows his options. "Quit your job, sell your assets and move out to the countryside" is, as romantic as that sounds, not a serious suggestion. I've never seen anyone do that except after a nervous breakdown or bankruptcy, when there's nothing else to do. There are reasons for this besides vanity. Once you get used to a high-stimulation lifestyle, abrupty gearing down to normal levels will be no less of a torture than what he's experiencing now.
 
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Fakereality

Fakereality

Student
Aug 4, 2021
130
I'm good at pretending that I care, but I really don't. I also don't want any unnecessary discussions with his jealous drama queen girlfriend. My only service to him will be to have listened and to keep the secret. The nature of our relationships doesn't make room for anything more.

He's not stupid and knows his options. "Quit your job, sell your assets and move out to the countryside" is, as romantic as that sounds, not a serious suggestion. I've never seen anyone do that except after a nervous breakdown or bankruptcy, when there's nothing else to do. There are reasons for this besides vanity. Once you get used to a high-stimulation lifestyle, abrupty gearing down to normal levels will be no less of a torture than what he's experiencing now.
rich people problems can't get used to normal lifestyle once get a taste of the high luxurious lifestyles on a side note yeah it's understandable to a degree I guess am not living much of lifestyle to begin with but if I have to climb down to lower level of life I would find it more unbearable than staying on the current one which is already hell enough maybe it's the same thing or not idk.
 
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Makko

Makko

Iä!
Jan 17, 2021
2,430
Sunday night.

It's after you get a few days of "vacation" you start to notice just how tired you really are.

Another colleague made an expertly disguised suicide joke last week and I can't stop thinking about it. If you're in the know you instantly pick up these things.
 
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