Discussion Dying as a young virgin vs lifelong virginity

[TAW122]

As of now, I am still a virgin (and hopefully I will lose it in the coming months), however, throughout various topics on reddit or other places where people have expressed their fear of dying as a virgin or living as a lifelong virgin, I'd say my stance is that both fates suck. I would not wish to die as a virgin, but it would be even worse to be a (potentially) lifelong virgin, basically, permavirgin. There is no benefit to being a lifelong virgin versus dying as a young virgin and the only difference is that someone who dies as a young virgin vs a dying as a lifelong virgin (living their whole life, essentially over ¾ of one's lifespan) is that the young virgin has spared him/herself many additional years of (potential) suffering and torment.

While people counter argue with the point that if a young virgin (like someone in their 20's to mid 30's) CTB, then they would literally '100% die as a virgin'. Yes, that is factually true, however, there is also no 100% guarantee that if said young virgin decided to continue living that he/she will lose it (he/she might, but could easily still remain a virgin for many years to come, thus becoming the 40 year old virgin, 50 year old virgin, etc.)

Another popular counter argument is that there is always someone out there for everyone, which is clearly false because not everyone is interested in sexual intercourse or an relationship with another person (even if it is another virgin of the opposite sex). What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Pupuce]

I'm still a virgin as well, it doesn't really bother me that much. Your worth isn't dictated by having sex with someone, even though society and assholes use this as such.

 

[Architect]

I'm almost 26, still virgin and I feel like a disgrace to the world because of it.
I'm not rational about it tho.

 

[TAW122]

@Pupuce yes society and assholes are fucked up. Though my main issue about being a virgin has more to do with my lack of experience of "real" sexual intercourse (like the feeling of it, physically and even emotionally to some degree) feels like. So if I were to CTB as a result of my virginity it would have more to do with my lack of experience and knowledge of the experience than a silly label. Furthermore, I have considered paying for it (in places where it is legal and safe to do so) so if I fail that, then I would likely be a permavirgin/virgin for life.

@Architect Yeah I felt the same too when I was 26 (just a bit more than two years ago), but that time I was just slowly losing hope. At 28 (very soon to be 29), I am even more desolate than I was years ago since years ago I figured I still had time on my side, but now, neither.

 

[deflagrat]

I don't care about having sex, but I would still masturbate if I had the ability to feel... I wish I didn't have sexual anhedonia, that's even worse than being a perma virgin.

 

[oopswronglife]

I hate seeing people suicidal over sex. It's really not THAT big of a deal. Can it be nice? Sure. Is it worth dying over? Not at all. When you are young of haven't done it yet it seems like its so much more important and vital to living. When you are young and hormones are raging you feel driven to it as if its needed to live. It really just isn't. The older you get the less you will care unless you have some sex addiction or are using it to avoid actually important things in life and relationships. The things people do in pursuit of sex are folly. It's never worth all that trouble. If it comes (heh) it comes and if not then you really aren't missing out on some life changing necessity. That's just the myth built up in your mind. I am sure people won't believe it...or say "easy for YOU to say" etc. But just some experience to counter common ideas. It's an additive thing for a loving relationship...not oxygen or something required for a life. It won't fill any holes (stop me please I can't help it) it's just another diversion in and of itself.

 

[pole]

I hate seeing people suicidal over sex. It's really not THAT big of a deal. Can it be nice? Sure. Is it worth dying over? Not at all. When you are young of haven't done it yet it seems like its so much more important and vital to living. When you are young and hormones are raging you feel driven to it as if its needed to live. It really just isn't. The older you get the less you will care unless you have some sex addiction or are using it to avoid actually important things in life and relationships. The things people do in pursuit of sex are folly. It's never worth all that trouble. If it comes (heh) it comes and if not then you really aren't missing out on some life changing necessity. That's just the myth built up in your mind. I am sure people won't believe it...or say "easy for YOU to say" etc. But just some experience to counter common ideas. It's an additive thing for a loving relationship...not oxygen or something required for a life. It won't fill any holes (stop me please I can't help it) it's just another diversion in and of itself.

upvote x1000000.

 

[TAW122]

@oopswronglife I don't agree with you because what you find not a big deal may mean a lot to another person. I believe that is invalidating the person's feelings and also somewhat trying to 'gatekeep' others on what they find reasonable or unreasonable. Yes, you are correct in the sense that it is not an immediate, direct need like food, water, oxygen, shelter, and other basic necessities of life to survive, but it is an important experience in one's life and I would like to be able to experience it at least once in my life. In regards to filling any voids in life, I do believe it would fill some holes, at least knowledge and experience (I am a person who isn't able to be at peace if I have a unfulfilled curiosity.). Also, I don't have a sex addiction (am currently a virgin) and I seldomly masturbate nowadays versus when I was a teenager with raging hormones. Finally, I have many other reasons for CTB, which I have listed in other threads, so it's never just ONE thing or CTB'ing over something trivial (trivial to certain people).

 

[oopswronglife]

I don't agree with you because what you find not a big deal may mean a lot to another person. I believe that is invalidating the person's feelings and also somewhat trying to 'gatekeep' others on what they find reasonable or unreasonable

I wasn't gatekeeping or invalidating your frustration and think I have made it clear over and over that there isn't a proper way to be suicidal, but that doesn't mean we cannot try to share experiences and guide each other. You asked for thoughts. I was only giving you experiential advice. Ask anyone who has sex and life experience if it's as big of a deal as they made it out to be when it was unknown. I am confident what the answer will be.

 

[TAW122]

Ok, I read it again and sorry for jumping to a conclusion like that, but yes, I suppose I may find that sexual intercourse might be just "nothing special", but I predict that I'm likely to be excited for the first time since I never had my penis inside a vagina to know the sensation/feeling of it. It would most likely be with a condom (for health reasons and safe sex), but that would still give a good idea of what the physical feeling would be. As far as psychological, I believe that would be different for everyone due to each person's personality and attitude as well as state of mind during the intercourse.

 

[Xaphous]

I'll be 30 in 5 months and still virgin so I know how much mental torture it is. I'm more devastated that I never kissed or just layed with a girl ( I have once kissed but it's not worth remembering), not socialized with the opposite sex, barely even my own.... I'm annoyed I had many dates set up through apps but never could bring myself to meet anyone (social anxiety, used to isolation)...... It's hell man and women see virgins as disgusting even if they are attracted to them, but a guy that had many partners is somehow a 'stud'.

 

[TAW122]

@Xaphous I feel ya man. I'll be 29 in 2 months. As far as kissing, I have only kissed someone on the cheek (when I was in high school) and it was an awkward encounter for me and the person (even though I was a senior at that time and people were graduating and parting ways). I was kissed by someone before, but only on the cheek, so I never experienced being kissed on the lips, which I presume is the more romantic kind of kissing. French kissing is another thing altogether though (very romantic and sexual). Speaking of kissing, sometimes I like to think that in the dating world, perhaps it is easier to get someone to kiss me on the lips than it is to get intercourse with them, but I don't know. As far as dates, I too have never been on one. The dating game and dating world is so stacked against me (Asian American male or just Asian males in the west) and combined with my social troubles (Aspergers and social anxiety, general anxiety), it makes it a super difficult endeavor to pursue.

The best things I ever had in my life close to any affection is just hugging (maybe a short cuddle - like a few moments, once or twice in my life), holding hands, and stuff. They are all pretty much platonic.

So in short, I am a KDV (Kissless, Dateless, Virgin), or DV if count cheek kisses as 'kissing'.

 

[Xaphous]

@Xaphous I feel ya man. I'll be 29 in 2 months. As far as kissing, I have only kissed someone on the cheek (when I was in high school) and it was an awkward encounter for me and the person (even though I was a senior at that time and people were graduating and parting ways). I was kissed by someone before, but only on the cheek, so I never experienced being kissed on the lips, which I presume is the more romantic kind of kissing. French kissing is another thing altogether though (very romantic and sexual). Speaking of kissing, sometimes I like to think that in the dating world, perhaps it is easier to get someone to kiss me on the lips than it is to get intercourse with them, but I don't know. As far as dates, I too have never been on one. The dating game and dating world is so stacked against me (Asian American male or just Asian males in the west) and combined with my social troubles (Aspergers and social anxiety, general anxiety), it makes it a super difficult endeavor to pursue.

The best things I ever had in my life close to any affection is just hugging (maybe a short cuddle - like a few moments, once or twice in my life), holding hands, and stuff. They are all pretty much platonic.

So in short, I am a KDV (Kissless, Dateless, Virgin), or DV if count cheek kisses as 'kissing'.

I'm not sure about if Asians have an issue in general with that so I am ignorant to that. I'm a white male and in the same position though. I think I remember you mentioning in another post about maybe going to an escort/prostitute. Did you ever try to go through with that? for me I never found any in my local area that really interest me, plus there are a lot of fakes to sort through and I'm pretty broke anyway. If that's not for you then how much have you used online dating apps? If you have the confidence to meet then that could still be an option. I am sure there must be Asian women not too far from you too?

I notice that most guys have social circles that gets them closer to women far more easily. For me I don't have a social life which makes things really difficult.

 

[h0wd1rtygurlsST4Yc1n]

sex is over rated and boring. unless you really really connect with some one....but that's more trouble than its worth usually but yes by all means try it! i've never cared about it that much and got really creeped out by dudes that by the time i was 16-18 it my virginity was considered some kind of prize or something. lmfao a lot of times it is like an awkward scene from american pie.

 

[Hobbes]

Ok, I read it again and sorry for jumping to a conclusion like that, but yes, I suppose I may find that sexual intercourse might be just "nothing special", but I predict that I'm likely to be excited for the first time since I never had my penis inside a vagina to know the sensation/feeling of it. It would most likely be with a condom (for health reasons and safe sex), but that would still give a good idea of what the physical feeling would be. As far as psychological, I believe that would be different for everyone due to each person's personality and attitude as well as state of mind during the intercourse.

I think the distinction you made between the physical and psychological aspect is interesting. Both aspects get wrapped up into a single unified experience and it's difficult to differentiate between the two. When others dismiss sex as overrated, they seem to be focusing on the physical side.

For context: I am fortunate enough to be a homosexual in an acceptive society and in an age of hyper-communication. This allows me to be with a great deal of partners at the click of a button, regardless of my physical appearance or lack of personality. I lost my virginity to a man I met on Craigslist, because I was going down the list and ticking off the boxes of what would make life enjoyable in any way (alcohol, drugs, physical intimacy.) I felt no physical pleasure at all. After some research, I learned that the lack of physical sensation was probably due to a combination of my SNRIs, circumcision and anxiety.

What I learned later was that I was conflating the physical and emotional aspects into one. I could not care less about the physical aspect - I have no desire or interest in physically feeling good with another person. What truly hurt was the lack of emotional connection. I found it absolutely repulsive to have physical contact with another human being because the only thing I wanted was to feel a genuine emotional connection with another human being. Perhaps it could have been a nice supplement to a healthy relationship, but my depression has turned me into a hollow, empty shell and my lack of enjoyment in sex only brought attention to the fact that I am a loveless & souless beast.

These are just my own reflections on my own personal experiences. I think you're correct in your statement that everybody's experience will be different. Your body will respond differently to the physical aspect and your mind will respond differently to the emotional aspect. These are two entirely different fields and when somebody downplays or tells you that it's overrated, it's difficult to see which side they're referencing without going into grotesque and inappropriate detail like I have above. Not that any of it matters - there is nothing I or anybody else can say that will make you lean either way. It's not a very fun answer and it's certainly not fair, but the only way to find your personal response to sex is to try it yourself.

With that said, I'm sorry you have to deal with this emotional stress. I was a virgin not too long ago so I remember how it felt. Even with an extremely low sex drive, it was an irritating topic to think about. This is compounded with the fact that physical intimacy is massively easier for those with advantageous genes (Asian American men are frequently shafted in the current dating climate, along with some other minorities) or social abilities. You would think with the rise in technology and global connections everybody would find their match, but it seems to have taken a turn in the opposite direction. It feels like such a lonely age.

 

[Thorn]

I believe that is invalidating the person's feelings and also somewhat trying to 'gatekeep' others on what they find reasonable or unreasonable.

Only it has very little to do with the feelings or reason, it's just a very basic instinct that manifests itself as an obsession that has no value once satisfied. Species are programmed to repeat it ad infinitum to survive, so there will be no memory or satisfaction of it.

 

[TAW122]

@Xaphous Oh yes, I did mention it in a previous thread, many months ago and no, I have not visited a prostitute or escort yet due to not being able to find one legally and safely in the US (too much risk and maneuvering for me to be worth it). As far as dating apps and hearing the amount of success that it has (especially Tinder and stuff), I shied away from it and won't touch it with a 10ft pole. The odds just suck so badly that it wasn't worth it for me to try and get even more depressed at it (not to mention the waste of time).

I don't really have much of a social circle, just a few people around me (usually church people but am not religious myself) and there isn't much opportunity to meet the girls I want to be with and such.

@Hobbes This is quite an interesting response and sadly, yes for Asian American males living the west, we are really at a serious disadvantage that it is not even worth trying to pursue women. Then one has to consider my social shortcomings owing it to Aspergers, social anxiety, and such and after that, it's pretty much well game over for me.

@Renewal Very true and for me, I do want to experience intercourse at least once to satisfy my curiosity and knowledge.

 

[Thanatos]

Not a virgin but lost most libido due to psych drugs, I dont really miss it tbh just more fake people in my life I dont want. Would maybe go out with a bang though before I ctb

 

[Ko9]

I don't think having had sex in your life is going to make a difference when you are dead. And Reddit is really stupid.

 

[262653]

Maybe it's like with tickling, more arousing when someone does it to you.
I used to stress a lot about this, but at this point I'd like to have a sex just out of curiosity. Why entrust the work to someone else when you can do it yourself? Why would you try to please your partner so that he/she would please you? Isn't it easier for both to just take care of themselves instead of each other? Unless you're going for the kids of course. I don't. As one user here well said, we have learned to separate sex from reproduction, or something along these lines. We have also learned to separate pleasurable part from sex. There are so much content over the internet that some of us may find sexual (not to be confused with deliberately sexual content), from which you can compose your own dream. Like Bride of Frankenstein, except she wouldn't freak out.

I still remember the last lucid dream I had, when I was touching a woman. She was very... tangible. Though I don't know how to induce a lucid dream.

Also I don't see the substantial difference between having sex for mutual pleasure or renting a prostitute. You're paying in same currency (pleasure) or another one. Either way you're paying.

About popular counter argument. If one isn't interested in sexual intercourse or an relationship with another person, then could one possibly bother that much over sex?

QUOTE="Xaphous, post: 381746, member: 3924"]
It's hell man and women see virgins as disgusting even if they are attracted to them, but a guy that had many partners is somehow a 'stud'.
[/QUOTE]

If he had many partners then he is tried and tested. I think it's normal to prefer that over untrusted product.

 

[TAW122]

@Ko9 Yeah objectively speaking, you are right that being dead is still dead, which boils down to a matter of whether to live a long life as a virgin or die young as a virgin. If I had to choose between the two, I'd rather die young virgin than to live decades or over half a century (more than 50 years) as a virgin since it is just many years of a unnecessary suffering. There is no reward in dying older versus dying younger, and dying younger (while it guarantees dying as a virgin) at least saves time and guarantees no disappointment of the future.

@Burzolog Yeah so I figured that renting a prostitute (or sex worker) would be able to satisfy my objectives (experiencing sexual intercourse) and also cuts to the chase of not having to go through many games and BS in order to get laid. I simply just don't have the means, the time, and the patience of going through hell and back only to come out worse than before, thus having a sex worker (where legal) would solve that problem as direct and quickly as possible. While it would not solve the problem of romance nor lack of a relationship (boyfriend/girlfriend), I'm not interested in either at this point.

 

[paul29]

I lost my virginity at 30.
Losing it had been my life mission until then.
It solved nothing.
Might have even made things worse, in the sense that I no longer had a goal.

 

[stellabelle]

I feel like sex is overrated and it's just the curiosity that hasn't been satisfied for folks who are hung up on whether or not they are a virgin.

 

[ThriveOrDie]

 

[21Neberg]

I'm almost 26, still virgin and I feel like a disgrace to the world because of it.
I'm not rational about it tho.

Hi there, I'd just like to say that whether or not you're a virgin does not change the great person you are. Whether or not you've been with a woman (or a man) does not change your talents or qualities. You're not a disgrace to the world.

 

[BeenDoneForSoLong]

Sex doesn't change anything... You will literally feel no different afterwards. Being a virgin doesnt say anything about someone. The UGLIEST person I ever met had sex earlier than me. I guess it means you won't have gonnorreah or something like that... That's about it.

 

[Hayalet]

As of now, I am still a virgin (and hopefully I will lose it in the coming months), however, throughout various topics on reddit or other places where people have expressed their fear of dying as a virgin or living as a lifelong virgin, I'd say my stance is that both fates suck. I would not wish to die as a virgin, but it would be even worse to be a (potentially) lifelong virgin, basically, permavirgin. There is no benefit to being a lifelong virgin versus dying as a young virgin and the only difference is that someone who dies as a young virgin vs a dying as a lifelong virgin (living their whole life, essentially over ¾ of one's lifespan) is that the young virgin has spared him/herself many additional years of (potential) suffering and torment.

While people counter argue with the point that if a young virgin (like someone in their 20's to mid 30's) CTB, then they would literally '100% die as a virgin'. Yes, that is factually true, however, there is also no 100% guarantee that if said young virgin decided to continue living that he/she will lose it (he/she might, but could easily still remain a virgin for many years to come, thus becoming the 40 year old virgin, 50 year old virgin, etc.)

Another popular counter argument is that there is always someone out there for everyone, which is clearly false because not everyone is interested in sexual intercourse or an relationship with another person (even if it is another virgin of the opposite sex). What are your thoughts on this?

It sucks not being a virgin. I waited until I was 18. And then my first and husband gave me an STD.

 

[Orin]

I have not visited a prostitute or escort yet due to not being able to find one legally and safely in the US

There's Sheri's Ranch in Nevada. A bit expensive but a very nice place and the ladies are total professionals.

Prostitution in Nevada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or take a quick trip to Tijuana.

 

[TAW122]

@paul29 I'm sorry that you feel that way. While I can't speak for all, I could say that even after losing my virginity, I do confidently believe that it would give me enough will and hope to continue living. This is because that means that I have a way to get sex (even if I have to pay for it directly with money).

@BeenDoneForSoLong I see. While I'm not as bothered by a silly label put forth by society and peers, I'm more bothered by my lack of understanding (curiosity) and experience of intercourse in person. Sure, I could watch porn and what not to get an idea of what happens, but I will never know what it feels like (physically speaking) and emotionally until I have experienced it first hand.

@Hayalet I'm sorry to hear about that.

@Orin Thanks for the link and I've looked at Nevada a while back. While it looks to be a good place within the US, it seems like it is getting more and more scarce as more brothels are closing their doors over the years, while the demand still remains high, thus driving up the prices. I don't have a quote for the cost of the services there, but from reports from previous consumers and clients, I have learned that it can cost 4-digits or high 3-digits in order to have an hour there, which is way beyond my budget. Therefore, I've looked at the European market, specifically in Amsterdam, Netherlands, in hopes to be able to experience what I can for much cheaper (and legally as well). I have booked a ticket to Europe just over a month ago and am currently doing a lot of reading into the escort, brothel, and sex scene there. I do know that there is a RLD in Amsterdam and while I could lose my virginity there, I don't mind paying a bit more just to have a good experience (just within my budget range).

 

[CapitánBeto]

I remember being in high school and observing how my fellows talked about sex, as some sort of achievement or luxury. There was some sort of praise and pride associated with it and, consequently, some sort of comparison or competition. Virginity was the lowest step, an state of unaccomplishment, weakness, whatever. There was a culture, a worship of sex, I would say.

I don't like being diminishing but, if I have to be honest, I found this pathetic. I thought -I still do- there where more important things to care about, things truly worthy of being praised. I thought there were more relevant and trascendental matters regarding life, human civilisation, the universe...

I thought this was a teenager thing, that with time my fellows might grow and develop a more mature state of mind. It hit me hard that I was wrong, when I observed the same behaviour on my father's friends, later on society overall. This was a disappointment to me.

First was drinking alcohol, second was having sex, soon there were others: having a car, having a partner, getting a job, living on your own, getting a college degree, marrying your partner, having kids... Getting a medal for something, graduating summa cum laudest of summa cum lauds, etc.

A culture of achievements, a cultural meritocracy, a society of praisers and praised. I believe many of our problems as a society (as individuals also) find their root at said culture which promotes narcissism, self-worshipping, ever-growing ambition, et cetera.

By reading your post, I get the feeling you value sex as something more transcendental than it might be. I agree the experience might be different depending on the person and whether we are talking about having sex as having a pancake or making love. There are many -possibly infinite- experiences one could experience, sex is one of them.

Saint Kateri Tekakwitha lived her life disregarding sexual intercourse, and I dare say she might have accomplished more meaningful things, not only for her but for society, one of them being peace of mind. The Dalai Lama's view on sexuality might be worth a read too.