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alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
I thought it would be nice to write & share how I think about the subject in the title. I think the subject of free will being an illusion, helps the psycholgoical aspect of performing the act of suicide. So I think the proceeding should be classified as a psychological resource.

The majority of civilization has been socially conditioned from birth and throughout life. The result: Majority of humans believe "one has choice or the ability to make a decision" and where one should think of one's will as truly their own.

Unfortunately for the ones who deeply care about the quoted above to be true and hate being deceived in such a way.. It's unrealistic in our reality for us to have what is typically referred to as free will. You cannot make your own choice without in some way being effected/altered by external forces and typically referenced as genetics & environmental factors. Basically, all the "linear ordered" events that occur from your birth (one by one) until you die.

Your birth is the sacred starting point and which is all that truly matters in deciding if you will have a favourable or unpleasant life. You don't have any control how your view will be in the end, how your appearance will be, how your intellect will be, how your financial status will be, or how you will think about this post and that's just how we're currently living right now. Nothing anyone can do about it, but in my opinion there is great value of awareness and in how reality functions.

This all becomes more understandable once fundamentally realizing how the "past events" are building your life story and similar to turning pages in a children's book. Each page being nothing more than external forces outside of our control. These forces are all factored from what occurred in the past and these forces exert upon objects in what we express as the current moment of our environment. The objects being what we consider humans, what we reference as life and even objects we don't classify as living. Everything is controlled by these external forces in what scientifically is expressed as an ever expanding system "our universe" and encompassing infinite subsystems.

Humans presume themselves to have free will, a result of their awareness of appetites that affect their minds, while being unable to understand the reasons why they want and act as they do.

An important question to consider is why has society been structured to believe in free will?

The free will belief, historically was built by the foundation of believing in what one names God. How a higher being entity has given humans the ability to make their own choices and why would humans desire to be otherwise. Why indeed, would societies desire human awareness in how one's own life compared to another is the outcome of fate and nothing else. Specifically how the structure of society is the result of inequality from being born into a family of privilege or disadvantage. How the privileged are more aware from superior education, better nutrition, higher quality living standards and thus less error occurs in development stages from childhood to adulthood. Throughout university one will learn the highest advantage is social connection that's in correlation with financial status.

The rare anomalies of a person born into less privilege making fortunes or great accomplishments is grossly praised in the press and used to further condition the less privileged to believe in free will. The essences of unawareness is built upon the practices of praise & rewards for assuming self-ego is justified for the outcome of events society desires.

I'm going to end writing about this for now but I'll probably add more later.
 
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Nullm

Nullm

Student
Apr 5, 2019
133
I'll add that it can exist but it's very own formation is depended upon external circumstances
I mean that individuals are usually attached to their life and will gladly own it this is a natural feeling the abilty to take action
But myslef having become extremely limited for long time yet still owning the "free will"
It made me had enough of the attitude that everything is in my hands
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
I'll add that it can exist but it's very own formation is depended upon external circumstances
I mean that individuals are usually attached to their life and will gladly own it this is a natural feeling the abilty to take action
But myslef having become extremely limited for long time yet still owning the "free will"
It made me had enough of the attitude that everything is in my hands
No, free will cannot exist. One's will is the outcome of the events that follow after birth without any choice. We could only have had choice if before birth we accepted the fate of how everything would happen after birth and while knowing what would happen. Even the concept of what I just wrote is an impossibility for what human expression denotes as choice. Since past experiences would be factored into the outcome of acceptance for whatever life being proposed to experience. Oneself cannot own choice because the self is human expression and in reality the self is everything factored into it; we don't control it.
 
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An hero of our time

An hero of our time

Не для меня
Apr 17, 2019
34
Let's imagine you're taking a trip somewhere via plane.
Stewardess asking you "Would you like tea or coffe?" And you answer "Well, you see, everything in universe is pre-determined, so i don't really have choice here".

You can't teĺl what will happen in next second with 100 percent bet. And you can't tell what exact external force led you to present second either. Not from human perspective anyway, and you can't see it from another because, well, you're human.

Universe is a chaotic structure. All logical links between events are faulty. All chains of deed-result is just a generalization. Why bother what forces in universe caused you to prefer tea over coffe?

Fre will isn't free, it's chaotic.
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
Let's imagine you're taking a trip somewhere via plane.
Stewardess asking you "Would you like tea or coffe?" And you answer "Well, you see, everything in universe is pre-determined, so i don't really have choice here".

You can't teĺl what will happen in next second with 100 percent bet. And you can't tell what exact external force led you to present second either. Not from human perspective anyway, and you can't see it from another because, well, you're human.

Universe is a chaotic structure. All logical links between events are faulty. All chains of deed-result is just a generalization. Why bother what forces in universe caused you to prefer tea over coffe?

Fre will isn't free, it's chaotic.

Chaos theory is still structured determinism, as all events still factor into the outcome and how you come to think as a person.

No matter how small or what you may consider as insignificant. Everything plays a role into you deciding on tea, coffee, nothing or something else. Nothing else shows otherwise and it's beautiful to me and while others may not think so but that's fate.
 
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A

Alan James

Arcanist
Apr 11, 2019
408
Free will is a hoax, self-deception. A person does not control most of the processes in the body; we do not control our subconscious as well; no one chooses his genes, his body, place or time of birth. My choice in any case will depend on what I received at birth - but I did not choose it. If, for example, a person has a physically and mentally sick body, how can he choose something?
 
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NoOneKnows

NoOneKnows

Specialist
Sep 12, 2018
323
excellent post ,perfectly worded. Thank you.
I would just add that they use the Free will in this society so they can pretend to create a sense of "justice" through our judicial system (LOL). Meaning if the authorities accept the fact theres no such thing as free will, the criminals, serial killers etc could say it was their fate, they could not influence not to commit the crime etc...OF course there are MAJOR flaws in the way judicial system operates...anyway
 
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alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
excellent post ,perfectly worded. Thank you.
I would just add that they use the Free will in this society so they can pretend to create a sense of "justice" through our judicial system (LOL). Meaning if the authorities accept the fact theres no such thing as free will, the criminals, serial killers etc could say it was their fate, they could not influence not to commit the crime etc...OF course there are MAJOR flaws in the way judicial system operates...anyway
Yes this is something I left out and it's very much similar to how capitalism survives. It's really sad to think that a person is punished by being born into an unfavourable life and where they're punished for existing without any control over one's fate. All the unfavourable events forced upon the person and making the person become an individual society desires to punish; under a mistaken belief that the person had choice. One day in the future if awareness increases about free will being an illusion, society will likely move towards a rehabilitation modal and the victims of illegal acts would likely have empathy for both parties in the unfavourable event.
 
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C

couragetodie

Student
Jan 2, 2019
154
@alizee so you didn't have free will to write that post? do you think it was out of your control to write it?
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
@alizee so you didn't have free will to write that post? do you think it was out of your control to write it?
Yes, it was outside my control like everything and similar to everyone else with ever event in life. All the preceding events from the starting point birth, are outside of one's control and to this very moment. All the external forces I experienced, made the outcome we're observing and it's typically described as fate or destiny.
 
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maka

maka

this is for you, mi cuervito 𓇢𓆸
Apr 23, 2019
171
I literally wrote an entire 7-8 page essay on this about a month ago for an AP class.
What I personally think is not that things are predetermined like in a Calvinistic sense, but that human beings are given a specific range of things we can do, and our minds decided our actions. Like how a computer has a plethora of actions it can perform, but we were the ones who gave it the ability to perform those actions and it just chooses from its options. If free will exists only certain people have it, hence why there's so much suffering that we can't escape. And even if some people did have free will, who gave it to them?
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
451
I literally wrote an entire 7-8 page essay on this about a month ago for an AP class.
What I personally think is not that things are predetermined like in a Calvinistic sense, but that human beings are given a specific range of things we can do, and our minds decided our actions. Like how a computer has a plethora of actions it can perform, but we were the ones who gave it the ability to perform those actions and it just chooses from its options. If free will exists only certain people have it, hence why there's so much suffering that we can't escape. And even if some people did have free will, who gave it to them?
Your expression of how the human minds decide is nonsense. The universe is an all encompassing system of forces upon subsystems of objects with properties and interacting by what's triggered upon them. We're the same as our reflection and an example what we see in a mirror. You have no control over anything as similar to your reflection moving to what's been done to make it so.
Typically no quarrel exists upon the notion of no choice occurred when entering this world but the social conditioning has made people desire to want to believe otherwise for what follows. All the scientific research shows contrary to a person having free will and the studies show determinism at the heart of it all. People grasp at illusions because they're desperate for miracles.
 
JadedGray

JadedGray

Life Eternal
Jul 24, 2018
991
Yes, it was outside my control like everything and similar to everyone else with ever event in life. All the preceding events from the starting point birth, are outside of one's control and to this very moment. All the external forces I experienced, made the outcome we're observing and it's typically described as fate or destiny.

I have come to agree with this notion. We have no say in our birth or any of the other factors that make us who we are: physically, mentally, upbringing and our environment. Everything we believe in is hardwired into us by things that are beyond our control.
 
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Weems

Weems

Experienced
May 5, 2019
204
I don't see how one can be other than a hard determinist. Things have causes, and humans are trying to meet needs they didn't choose to have.
 
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Yakamoz

Yakamoz

passer-by
Jun 26, 2022
324
Some very good takes
 
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