• Hey Guest,

    As you know, censorship around the world has been ramping up at an alarming pace. The UK and OFCOM has singled out this community and have been focusing its censorship efforts here. It takes a good amount of resources to maintain the infrastructure for our community and to resist this censorship. We would appreciate any and all donations.

    Bitcoin Address (BTC): 39deg9i6Zp1GdrwyKkqZU6rAbsEspvLBJt

    Ethereum (ETH): 0xd799aF8E2e5cEd14cdb344e6D6A9f18011B79BE9

    Monero (XMR): 49tuJbzxwVPUhhDjzz6H222Kh8baKe6rDEsXgE617DVSDD8UKNaXvKNU8dEVRTAFH9Av8gKkn4jDzVGF25snJgNfUfKKNC8

Açucarzinho583

Açucarzinho583

com café!
Sep 14, 2023
19
Today, I will present a final exposé on the existence of God. I imagine that many of you here do not believe in the existence of God; otherwise, you wouldn't be here. All the references in this text come from the books The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan, and 50 Philosophy Ideas You Really Need to Know. I highly recommend reading them, especially the first one. You can read them here (https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-709) and here (https://archive.org/details/50philosophyidea0000dupr), respectively.

INTRODUCTION

Surveys suggest that some 95 percent of Americans are 'scientifically illiterate'.

Hippocrates of Cos is the father of medicine. He is still remembered
2,500 years later for the Hippocratic Oath. In a typical passage Hippocrates wrote: 'Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. But if they called everything divine which they do not understand, why, there would be no end of divine things.'

In the diagnosis of disease, Hippocrates introduced elements of the scientific method. He urged careful and meticulous observation: 'Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time.'

While medicine in the Islamic world flourished, what followed in Europe was truly a dark age. Much knowledge of anatomy and surgery was lost. Reliance on prayer and miraculous healing abounded. Secular physicians became extinct. Chants, potions, horoscopes and amulets were widely used. Dissections of cadavers were restricted or outlawed, so those who practised medicine were prevented from acquiring first-hand knowledge of the human body. Medical research came to a standstill.

. . . where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise

wrote the poet Thomas Gray. Edmund Way Teale in his 1950 book Circle of the Seasons understood the dilemma better:

It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have got it.

Pseudoscience claims to use the methods and findings of science, but in reality, it is unfaithful to its nature—often because it is based on insufficient evidence or because it ignores clues that point the other way.

Religions are often the state-protected nurseries of pseudoscience, although there's no reason why religions have to play that role.

HALLUCINATIONS

According to the Bible itself, no one has seen God personally:

No human being has literally seen God. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) The Bible says that "God is Spirit," a form of life invisible to human eyes. — John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17.

So there aren't many stories of people who have seen God. But there are stories of people who have seen angels. These are the stories we are going to analyze.

Sherry Simister told me about a miraculous experience she had with angels in the hospital after falling from the second-floor balcony of her home.

As she fell, she had a silent seizure (which caused her to become paralyzed) and began to fall headfirst toward the ground. Her husband tried, unsuccessfully, to save her by attempting to grab her shoulders as she fell.

This ended up slightly changing her position so that she fell on her back instead of her head, which likely saved her life, but she broke many bones and had to endure severe pain.

While she was in the hospital, feeling helpless and praying for help, her pain intensified, becoming unbearable. She wondered if there was only pain and suffering in her future. At that moment, she had a magnificent experience. She said:

"I was in such intense pain and was wondering if I would ever walk again or be free from pain. I looked to the side of my bed and suddenly realized that all the past generations of my family were around my bed. During the six weeks I spent in the hospital, I was surrounded daily by these ancestors. Without their love and support, I don't think I would have been able to handle that unbearable pain. The pain medication was strong, but not enough. My angels were so comforting and extremely important. They did not leave until I was well. I was very blessed to have them there."

This story is highly questionable. Firstly, because she was taking very strong medication, so this case could be an hallucination. Just like most of these stories.

Such hallucinations may occur to perfectly normal people under perfectly ordinary circumstances. Hallucinations can also be elicited: by a campfire at night, or under emotional stress, or during epileptic seizures or migraine headaches or high fever, or by prolonged fasting or sleeplessness or sensory deprivation (for example, in solitary confinement), or through hallucinogens such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, or hashish. (Delirium tremens, the dreaded alcohol-induced DTs, is one well-known manifestation of a withdrawal syndrome from alcoholism.) There are also molecules, such as the phenothiazines (thorazine, for example), that make hallucinations go away. It is very likely that the normal human body generates substances - perhaps including the morphine-like small brain proteins called endorphins - that cause hallucinations, and others that suppress them. There are countless instances in the world's religions where patriarchs, prophets or
saviours repair themselves to desert or mountain and, assisted by hunger and sensory deprivation, encounter gods or demons. Psychedelic-induced religious experiences were a hallmark of the western youth culture of the 1960s. Hallucinations are common. If you have one, it doesn't mean you're crazy. The anthropological literature is replete with hallucination ethnopsychiatry, REM dreams and possession trances, which have many common elements transculturally and across the ages. The hallucinations are routinely interpreted as possession by good or evil spirits. The Yale anthropologist Weston La Barre
goes so far as to argue that 'a surprisingly good case could be made that much of culture is hallucination'.

Let's move on to the second story:

Stephanie Arnold, an American, is best known for her experiences involving premonitory visions about her own death during childbirth. However, in one of her sleep experiences, she reported seeing what she interpreted as an angel. Stephanie woke up in the middle of the night, unable to move her body. She described a feeling of terror. However, amidst this sensation, she saw a radiant and luminous figure beside her bed. The figure seemed to be looking at her with an expression of peace and serenity. Stephanie felt as if this presence was there to comfort and protect her.

This is essentially a psychological condition known as sleep paralysis. Many people experience it. It occurs in that moment between being fully awake and fully asleep. For a few minutes, the person remains motionless and intensely anxious. They may experience auditory or visual hallucinations.

THE DRAGON IN MY GARAGE

A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage.' Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
'Show me,' you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle - but no dragon.
'Where's the dragon?' you ask.
'Oh, she's right here,' I reply, waving vaguely. 'I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon.'
You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.
'Good idea,' I say, 'but this dragon floats in the air.'
Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.
'Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.'
You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.
'Good idea, except she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint
won't stick.'
An so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.
Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

Let's apply this logic to the idea of a god. The dragon analogy is useful because it highlights how unverifiable claims are essentially useless in the debate about the existence of transcendental entities. The existence of God is often discussed in terms of claims that are so broadly defined and protected against any form of refutation that they become irrelevant. If we cannot detect God with any physical test, then what is the difference between a being that does not exist?

CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE

There are several other absurd passages and contradictions that can be found on the internet.

There are 463 more contradictions in the Bible (according to graphic designer Andy Marlow in 2009), but I won't list them here to keep the text concise. BibViz (https://github.com/bibviz/bibviz) is a website that shows the contradictions in detail and provides shortcuts to the verses. But, in addition to the contradictions, the chart also highlights passages and references related to issues of cruelty, violence, misogyny, scientific contradictions, historical inaccuracies, and discrimination against women and homosexuals.

COMMON FALLACIES

1. There is something considered morality – we have a code of laws/ethical commands.

2. God is the only candidate for the role of lawgiver/commander.

3. Therefore – God must exist.

However, it is unlikely that this line of reasoning will convince anyone. The first premise, which implies that morality is essentially something that exists independently of humans, already raises questions on its own. And even if we admit that morality exists independently of us, the second premise can be challenged by the Euthyphro dilemma. Socrates (Plato's spokesperson in his dialogues) begins a conversation with a young man named Euthyphro about the nature of piety. They agree that piety is "loved by the gods," but then Socrates asks the crucial question: are the pious ones pious because they are loved by the gods, or are they loved by the gods because they are pious?

Thus, is what is good considered good because of God's commands, or does God command something because it is good? Analyzing the first part first: killing (let's say) is wrong because God says so, but things could have been otherwise. God could have said that killing is right or even obligatory, and it would be right – because God said so.

"Imagine we believe that the evidence for the existence of God is inconclusive. What should we do? We may or may not believe in God. If we choose to believe and we are right (that is, God exists), we gain eternal bliss; if we are wrong, we lose little. On the other hand, if we choose not to believe and we are right (that is, God does not exist), we lose nothing, but we also gain little; but if we are wrong, our loss is colossal – at best, we lose eternal salvation; at worst, we suffer eternal damnation. So much to gain, so little to lose: you'd be a fool not to bet on the existence of God."

This ingenious argument for believing in God, known as Pascal's wager, was presented by the French mathematician and philosopher Blaise Pascal in his work Pensées (Thoughts), published in 1670. Ingenious, yes, but flawed. An obvious problem is that the argument requires us to decide what to believe, and belief doesn't work that way. Worse yet, the impulse that leads us to make the wager in the first place is our lack of sufficient information about God to proceed; however, making the right wager depends on knowing what pleases or displeases God. What if God is not displeased by being worshipped but detests calculating people who make bets solely with their self-interest in mind?

"Look at the world around you, contemplate the whole and each of its parts: you will see that it is nothing more than a great machine, subdivided into an infinite number of smaller machines that, in turn, admit further subdivisions to a degree that surpasses what human senses and faculties can trace and explain. All these various machines, and even their smallest parts, fit together with a precision that amazes all who have ever contemplated them. The curious adaptation of means to ends throughout nature closely resembles, though greatly exceeds, the products of human ingenuity, design, thought, wisdom, and intelligence; and as the effects resemble one another, we are led to infer, according to all the rules of analogy, that the causes are also similar and that the Author of Nature is in some way similar to the human mind, though possessing faculties far more vast, proportional to the greatness of the work he has executed. By this a posteriori argument, and by this argument alone, we prove both the existence of a Deity and its resemblance to the human mind and intelligence."

This succinct statement of the design argument for the existence of God is placed in the mouth of Cleanthes by David Hume in his work Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, published posthumously in 1779. The enduring strength of the design argument lies in the powerful and widely shared intuition that the beauty, order, complexity, and apparent purpose found in the world around us cannot be merely the products of random, meaningless natural processes. There must be, it is imagined, some agent with an inconceivably vast intellect and the necessary skill to plan and create all the wonders of nature, so exquisitely designed and shaped to fulfill their various roles. Consider the human eye, for example: it is so intricately sophisticated, so well equipped for its purpose, that it must have been designed to be that way.

The design argument seems vulnerable to an infinite regress. If the wondrous beauty and organization of the universe require a designer, doesn't this universe of wonders plus the architect behind it all require an even greater designer? If we need a designer, it seems we also need a super-designer, then a super-super-designer, and so on.

The main recommendation of the design argument is that it explains how these wonders of nature – for example, the human eye – exist and function so well. But precisely these wonders and their fitness for purpose are explainable with reference to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, without any supernatural intervention by an intelligent designer.

There are also the cosmological argument and the ontological argument, but they are so absurd that they are not worth mentioning.

THE PROBLEM OF EVIL

Finally, according to the traditional theistic account:

1. God is omniscient: He knows everything that is logically possible to know.

2. God is omnipotent: He is capable of doing anything that is logically possible to do.

3. God is omnibenevolent: He is universally benevolent and desires to do all the good that can be done.

With special attention to the problem of evil, the following inferences can plausibly be made based on these three basic properties:

4. If God is omniscient, He is fully aware of all the pain and suffering that occur.

5. If God is omnipotent, He is capable of preventing all pain and suffering.

6. If God is omnibenevolent, He desires to prevent all pain and suffering.

If propositions 4 through 6 are true and if God (as defined by propositions 1 through 3) exists, then there will be no pain and suffering in the world because God will have followed His inclinations and prevented them from occurring. But there is pain and suffering in the world, so we must conclude either that God does not exist or that He lacks one or more of the properties established in propositions 1 through 3. In sum, the problem of evil seems to carry the extremely unpleasant implication for the theist that either God does not know what is happening, does not care, or cannot do anything about it; or that He does not exist.

Historically, the most popular and influential suggestion is the so-called "free will defense." Our freedom to make genuine choices allows us to live a life of true moral value. Despite this, the free will defense faces some formidable problems.

Perhaps the most obvious difficulty that the free will defense confronts is the existence of natural evil in the world. Even if we accept that free will is such a precious good that it is worth the cost of moral evil—the bad and hateful things that occur when people use their freedom to make wrong choices—what possible sense can we make of natural evil? How would God have harmed or diminished our free will if He had suddenly eradicated the HIV virus, hemorrhoids, mosquitoes, floods, and earthquakes? The gravity of this difficulty is illustrated by some of the theistic responses to it: natural disasters, diseases, plagues, etc., are (literally) the work of the devil and a host of other fallen angels and demons; or such afflictions are "merely" divine punishment for Adam and Eve's original sin in the Garden of Eden. The latter solution traces all natural evil back to the first instance of moral evil and thus seeks to exonerate God from any blame. This explanation does not seem convincing. Wouldn't it be a monstrous injustice for God to punish the great-great-great-great (and so on) grandchildren of the original offenders?

And how would those who have already been judged by the actions of their (distant) ancestors benefit from receiving free will?

Another difficulty faced by free will is whether we are truly free?
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: Anclaje, juna, possessed and 3 others
M

MyTimeIsUp

Perhaps I'll be important when I'm long gone?
Feb 27, 2024
467
I read the first line and had no idea your entire post would be a preachy one. I stopped reading after that - I merely skimmed as I thought it was far too long, and the entire post is fake evidence that a man in the sky exists. What the actual..?

There is no real evidence a 'god' exists. You will not convince me, or other non-believers otherwise.

I do find it odd that you would post this on a suicide website that is full of vunerable people, and that shit boils my blood.

If you believe in a man in the sky, that's your choice, but don't try to shove this down others throats. It is sickening, leave us all to believe what WE want in peace.

Oh and for the record, plenty on here believe in god, why would you assume otherwise? "Many of you don't or you wouldn't be here". You are here.. what type of logic is that?

I'm going to assume you are extremely mentally unstable, based on your post, so I'll leave it at that.

Don't try to quote me and debate with me, I'm not interested. You cannot convince me a man in the sky exists. Literally no one knows. Only those that are dead, and you cannot come back from the dead..

I hope your pain eases at least. Perhaps this is something for you to focus on, but I wish you hadn't preached on a suicide website. Come on. Have some respect for others. Not acceptable behaviour
 
  • Like
Reactions: Achromatix, NoPoint2Life, ijustwishtodie and 3 others
E

Esokabat

Specialist
Apr 22, 2024
390
This is my last post on this website before signing off forever.
It is you who are preaching. Religion comes in many forms, and preaching comes in many forms too. I feel your beliefs are more to do with a religious type mindset than the truth.
So the irony goes.
I don't see any difference between extreme religions and your views. I would not debate you if my life depend on it, as your post does not deserve my time and I don't debate people I don't take seriously.

However, I just wanted to say that what you despise so much, preaching, that is exactly what you are doing.

As I said, religions come in many forms, preaching comes in many forms, fundamentalism and extremism come in many forms, and I don't take seriously anyone who leans toward those views, regardless of which side you are on.

You are made of the same fabric as followers of fanatic fundamentalist religions, and maybe this is why you are being triggered by this topic.
Preach on, I am signing off
 
  • Like
Reactions: Achromatix, sserafim and divinemistress36
divinemistress36

divinemistress36

Illuminated
Jan 1, 2024
3,338
I believe in energy so I think their is some sort of "Source" but I dont believe there is some almighty number 1 sky daddy like Abrahamic religions believe
 
  • Yay!
  • Like
Reactions: darkest, opheliaoveragain, Achromatix and 2 others
Themogger

Themogger

Why so serious?
Jul 23, 2024
241
Bro yapping 💀. Also I think some dead philosopher beat you to it
 
  • Like
  • Yay!
Reactions: darkest, damienlerone03 and JustA_LittlePerson
iamanavalanche

iamanavalanche

fast words, deliverance
May 20, 2024
57
ngl why was this needed
 
  • Like
Reactions: opheliaoveragain
BlackEyedDog

BlackEyedDog

Mage
May 6, 2024
549
This should be in Offtopic or Politics & Philosophy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nothing87
T

thickly_settled

Member
Nov 12, 2018
38
God never existed, so he can't be dead
 
  • Like
Reactions: ijustwishtodie, juna, sserafim and 1 other person
possessed

possessed

Member
Aug 10, 2024
28
Wait..........the post is trying to debunk religion, not preaching anything. Are we reading the same text?
 
  • Like
Reactions: juna and mlha
Açucarzinho583

Açucarzinho583

com café!
Sep 14, 2023
19
Wait..........the post is trying to debunk religion, not preaching anything. Are we reading the same text?
Yes, this text is a defense of skepticism and science. I am disappointed with people and these comments, who didn't read the text properly and think that I am preaching something or saying that God exists, when it's the opposite: God doesn't exist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoiteringClouds and juna
sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,015
God doesn't exist. God was invented by humans to explain things that were unexplainable at the time. God is also a manifestation of human pride and hubris: humanity is so important and special that it had to be especially created by a creator. Humans make themselves the center of the universe and God is a testament as to how narcissistic humans are
 
  • Like
Reactions: opheliaoveragain, wallavenue, SmallKoy and 1 other person
Açucarzinho583

Açucarzinho583

com café!
Sep 14, 2023
19
I read the first line and had no idea your entire post would be a preachy one. I stopped reading after that - I merely skimmed as I thought it was far too long, and the entire post is fake evidence that a man in the sky exists. What the actual..?

There is no real evidence a 'god' exists. You will not convince me, or other non-believers otherwise.

I do find it odd that you would post this on a suicide website that is full of vunerable people, and that shit boils my blood.

If you believe in a man in the sky, that's your choice, but don't try to shove this down others throats. It is sickening, leave us all to believe what WE want in peace.

Oh and for the record, plenty on here believe in god, why would you assume otherwise? "Many of you don't or you wouldn't be here". You are here.. what type of logic is that?

I'm going to assume you are extremely mentally unstable, based on your post, so I'll leave it at that.

Don't try to quote me and debate with me, I'm not interested. You cannot convince me a man in the sky exists. Literally no one knows. Only those that are dead, and you cannot come back from the dead..

I hope your pain eases at least. Perhaps this is something for you to focus on, but I wish you hadn't preached on a suicide website. Come on. Have some respect for others. Not acceptable behaviour
I know you don't want me to respond, but you misunderstood. This is all a misunderstanding. The text is a defense of science and skepticism, which is a critical and questioning stance that seeks to avoid hasty conclusions and unfounded beliefs. It encourages us to question, investigate, and seek evidence before accepting any claim as true. You could have read everything before jumping to conclusions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: juna
SmallKoy

SmallKoy

Aficionado
Jan 18, 2024
230
This is my last post on this website before signing off forever.
It is you who are preaching. Religion comes in many forms, and preaching comes in many forms too. I feel your beliefs are more to do with a religious type mindset than the truth.
So the irony goes.
I don't see any difference between extreme religions and your views. I would not debate you if my life depend on it, as your post does not deserve my time and I don't debate people I don't take seriously.

However, I just wanted to say that what you despise so much, preaching, that is exactly what you are doing.

As I said, religions come in many forms, preaching comes in many forms, fundamentalism and extremism come in many forms, and I don't take seriously anyone who leans toward those views, regardless of which side you are on.

You are made of the same fabric as followers of fanatic fundamentalist religions, and maybe this is why you are being triggered by this topic.
Preach on, I am signing off
What a mind numbing post.
 
J

juna

Exhausted...
Mar 4, 2024
189
A very long post, no wonder many didn't read completely and thought it was preaching about God.
Nice post, especially the parts where people hallucinate seeing ancestors or God, it gave a reason for these hallucinations and debunked the God theory.
God is a social construct, it gives people hope and makes them feel stronger that an invisible entity loves and protects them. But if there was God, why would there be suffering? Wouldn't God protect the people he so loves...
Coming from a very religious background, I have always been a rebel. In my culture, there are religious texts that support misogyny. The God in our book leaves his pregnant wife because other people doubted her and sends her off to live in a forest. I don't think I could ever worship or believe in such a God who couldn't even stand up for his wife. I asked my mother this question as a kid and she got super angry and started using abusive words with me. Never questioned again, keep my questions to myself.
 
  • Like
  • Hugs
Reactions: opheliaoveragain, wallavenue, LoiteringClouds and 1 other person
damienlerone03

damienlerone03

reject humanity, return to monke
May 5, 2024
1,046
short form content destroyed my brain i gave up readin allat im so sorry

i made it 4 words in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Achromatix
A

Anclaje

Member
May 2, 2024
7
Hoy presentaré una exposición final sobre la existencia de Dios. Me imagino que muchos de ustedes aquí no creen en la existencia de Dios; de lo contrario, no estarían aquí. Todas las referencias en este texto provienen de los libros The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark de Carl Sagan y 50 Philosophy Ideas You Really Need to Know . Recomiendo mucho leerlos, especialmente el primero. Pueden leerlos aquí ( https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-709 ) y aquí ( https://archive.org/details/50philosophyidea0000dupr ), respectivamente.

INTRODUCCIÓN

Las encuestas sugieren que alrededor del 95 por ciento de los estadounidenses son "analfabetos científicos".

Hipócrates de Cos es el padre de la medicina. Todavía se le recuerda
2.500 años después, el Juramento Hipocrático. En un pasaje típico, Hipócrates escribió: "Los hombres piensan que la epilepsia es divina, simplemente porque no la entienden. Pero si llamaran divino a todo lo que no entienden, bueno, no habría fin para las cosas divinas".

En el diagnóstico de enfermedades, Hipócrates introdujo elementos del método científico. Instó a una observación cuidadosa y meticulosa: "No dejes nada al azar. No pases nada por alto. Combina las observaciones contradictorias. Date el tiempo suficiente".

Mientras la medicina florecía en el mundo islámico, lo que siguió en Europa fue una verdadera época oscura. Se perdió gran parte del conocimiento de la anatomía y la cirugía. Abundó la confianza en la oración y en las curaciones milagrosas. Los médicos seculares se extinguieron. Se generalizaron los cánticos, las pociones, los horóscopos y los amuletos. Las disecciones de cadáveres se restringieron o prohibieron, por lo que a quienes practicaban la medicina se les impidió adquirir conocimientos de primera mano sobre el cuerpo humano. La investigación médica se paralizó.

...donde la ignorancia es una bendición, es una locura ser sabio.

El poeta Thomas Gray escribió lo siguiente. Edmund Way Teale, en su libro de 1950 El círculo de las estaciones, comprendió mejor el dilema:

Es moralmente tan malo no preocuparse de si algo es verdad o no, siempre que te haga sentir bien, como no preocuparse de cómo conseguiste tu dinero, siempre que lo tengas.

La pseudociencia pretende utilizar los métodos y hallazgos de la ciencia, pero en realidad es infiel a su naturaleza, a menudo porque se basa en evidencia insuficiente o porque ignora pistas que apuntan en otra dirección.

Las religiones son a menudo viveros de pseudociencias protegidos por el Estado, aunque no hay razón para que tengan que desempeñar ese papel.

ALUCINACIONES

Según la propia Biblia, nadie ha visto a Dios personalmente:

Ningún ser humano ha visto literalmente a Dios (Éxodo 33:20; Juan 1:18; 1 Juan 4:12). La Biblia dice que "Dios es Espíritu", una forma de vida invisible a los ojos humanos (Juan 4:24; 1 Timoteo 1:17).

No hay muchas historias de personas que hayan visto a Dios, pero sí hay historias de personas que han visto ángeles. Éstas son las historias que vamos a analizar.

Sherry Simister me contó sobre una experiencia milagrosa que tuvo con ángeles en el hospital después de caerse del balcón del segundo piso de su casa.

Al caer, sufrió una convulsión silenciosa (que la dejó paralizada) y comenzó a caer de cabeza hacia el suelo. Su esposo intentó, sin éxito, salvarla tratando de agarrarla por los hombros mientras caía.

Esto terminó cambiando ligeramente su posición y cayó de espaldas en lugar de sobre su cabeza, lo que probablemente le salvó la vida, pero se rompió muchos huesos y tuvo que soportar un dolor intenso.

Mientras estaba en el hospital, sintiéndose impotente y rezando para recibir ayuda, su dolor se intensificó y se volvió insoportable. Se preguntó si en el futuro solo habría dolor y sufrimiento. En ese momento, tuvo una experiencia magnífica. Dijo:

"Tenía un dolor muy intenso y me preguntaba si alguna vez volvería a caminar o si me libraría del dolor. Miré hacia el borde de mi cama y de repente me di cuenta de que todas las generaciones anteriores de mi familia estaban a mi lado. Durante las seis semanas que pasé en el hospital, estuve rodeada a diario por estos antepasados. Sin su amor y apoyo, no creo que hubiera podido soportar ese dolor insoportable. Los analgésicos eran fuertes, pero no lo suficiente. Mis ángeles me reconfortaron mucho y fueron extremadamente importantes. No se fueron hasta que me recuperé. Tuve mucha suerte de tenerlos allí".

Esta historia es muy cuestionable. En primer lugar, porque estaba tomando medicamentos muy fuertes, por lo que este caso podría ser una alucinación. Como la mayoría de estas historias.

Estas alucinaciones pueden ocurrirle a personas perfectamente normales en circunstancias perfectamente ordinarias. También pueden ser provocadas por una fogata en la noche, o bajo estrés emocional, o durante ataques epilépticos o dolores de cabeza por migraña o fiebre alta, o por ayuno prolongado o insomnio o privación sensorial (por ejemplo, en confinamiento solitario), o por alucinógenos como el LSD, la psilocibina, la mescalina o el hachís. (El delirium tremens, el temido DT inducido por el alcohol, es una manifestación bien conocida del síndrome de abstinencia del alcoholismo). También hay moléculas, como las fenotiazinas (la torazina, por ejemplo), que hacen que las alucinaciones desaparezcan. Es muy probable que el cuerpo humano normal genere sustancias -quizás incluyendo las pequeñas proteínas cerebrales parecidas a la morfina llamadas endorfinas- que causan alucinaciones, y otras que las suprimen. Hay innumerables ejemplos en las religiones del mundo en los que patriarcas, profetas o
Los salvadores se refugian en el desierto o en la montaña y, ayudados por el hambre y la privación sensorial, se encuentran con dioses o demonios. Las experiencias religiosas inducidas por psicodélicos fueron un sello distintivo de la cultura juvenil occidental de la década de 1960. Las alucinaciones son comunes. Si tienes una, no significa que estés loco. La literatura antropológica está repleta de etnopsiquiatría alucinógena, sueños REM y trances de posesión, que tienen muchos elementos comunes transculturalmente y a través de las épocas. Las alucinaciones se interpretan rutinariamente como posesión por espíritus buenos o malos. El antropólogo de Yale Weston La Barre
llega incluso a argumentar que "se podría argumentar sorprendentemente bien que gran parte de la cultura es alucinación".

Pasemos a la segunda historia:

Stephanie Arnold, una estadounidense, es más conocida por sus experiencias que incluyen visiones premonitorias sobre su propia muerte durante el parto. Sin embargo, en una de sus experiencias de sueño, dijo haber visto lo que interpretó como un ángel. Stephanie se despertó en medio de la noche, incapaz de mover su cuerpo. Describió una sensación de terror. Sin embargo, en medio de esta sensación, vio una figura radiante y luminosa junto a su cama. La figura parecía estar mirándola con una expresión de paz y serenidad. Stephanie sintió como si esta presencia estuviera allí para consolarla y protegerla.

Se trata de un trastorno psicológico conocido como parálisis del sueño. Muchas personas lo padecen. Se produce en el momento entre el estado de vigilia total y el de sueño total. Durante unos minutos, la persona permanece inmóvil y muy ansiosa. Puede experimentar alucinaciones auditivas o visuales.

EL DRAGÓN EN MI GARAJE

En mi garaje vive un dragón que escupe fuego. Supongamos que le hago una afirmación así en serio. Seguro que le gustaría comprobarlo, verlo por sí mismo. Ha habido innumerables historias de dragones a lo largo de los siglos, pero ninguna prueba real. ¡Qué oportunidad!
"Muéstrame", me dices. Te llevo a mi garaje. Miras dentro y ves una escalera, latas de pintura vacías, un triciclo viejo... pero ningún dragón.
¿Dónde está el dragón?, te preguntarás.
—Ah, está aquí —respondo, agitando la mano vagamente—. Me olvidé de mencionar que es un dragón invisible.
Propongo esparcir harina en el suelo del garaje para capturar las huellas del dragón.
"Buena idea", digo, "pero este dragón flota en el aire".
Luego utilizarás un sensor infrarrojo para detectar el fuego invisible.
«Buena idea, pero el fuego invisible tampoco calienta».
Pintarás con aerosol al dragón y lo harás visible.
'Buena idea, excepto que ella es un dragón incorpóreo y la pintura...
' no se pegará.'
Y así sucesivamente. Contrarresto cada prueba física que me propones con una explicación especial de por qué no funcionará.
Ahora bien, ¿cuál es la diferencia entre un dragón invisible, incorpóreo y flotante que escupe fuego sin calor y ningún dragón en absoluto? Si no hay forma de refutar mi afirmación, ningún experimento concebible que pueda contar en su contra, ¿qué significa decir que mi dragón existe? Su incapacidad para invalidar mi hipótesis no es en absoluto lo mismo que demostrar que es cierta. Las afirmaciones que no se pueden comprobar, las aseveraciones inmunes a la refutación son verídicamente inútiles, cualquiera que sea el valor que puedan tener para inspirarnos o para estimular nuestra capacidad de asombro. Lo que les pido que hagan se reduce a creer, en ausencia de evidencia, en mi palabra.

Apliquemos esta lógica a la idea de un dios. La analogía del dragón es útil porque pone de relieve cómo las afirmaciones no verificables son esencialmente inútiles en el debate sobre la existencia de entidades trascendentales. La existencia de Dios se discute a menudo en términos de afirmaciones que están tan ampliamente definidas y protegidas contra cualquier forma de refutación que se vuelven irrelevantes. Si no podemos detectar a Dios con ninguna prueba física, entonces ¿cuál es la diferencia entre un ser que no existe?

CONTRADICCIONES EN LA BIBLIA

Hay muchos otros pasajes absurdos y contradicciones que se pueden encontrar en Internet.

Hay 463 contradicciones más en la Biblia (según el diseñador gráfico Andy Marlow en 2009), pero no las enumeraré aquí para que el texto sea conciso. BibViz ( https://github.com/bibviz/bibviz ) es un sitio web que muestra las contradicciones en detalle y proporciona accesos directos a los versículos. Pero, además de las contradicciones, el gráfico también destaca pasajes y referencias relacionadas con temas de crueldad, violencia, misoginia, contradicciones científicas, inexactitudes históricas y discriminación contra las mujeres y los homosexuales.

Falacias comunes

1. Existe algo que se considera moralidad: tenemos un código de leyes/mandamientos éticos.

2. Dios es el único candidato para el papel de legislador/comandante.

3. Por lo tanto – Dios debe existir.

Sin embargo, es poco probable que esta línea de razonamiento convenza a alguien. La primera premisa, que implica que la moral es algo que existe esencialmente independientemente de los humanos, ya plantea preguntas por sí misma. E incluso si admitimos que la moral existe independientemente de nosotros, la segunda premisa puede ser cuestionada por el dilema de Eutifrón. Sócrates (el portavoz de Platón en sus diálogos) inicia una conversación con un joven llamado Eutifrón sobre la naturaleza de la piedad. Están de acuerdo en que la piedad es "amada por los dioses", pero luego Sócrates plantea la pregunta crucial: ¿los piadosos son piadosos porque son amados por los dioses, o son amados por los dioses porque son piadosos?

Entonces, ¿lo que es bueno se considera bueno por mandato de Dios, o Dios ordena algo porque es bueno? Analicemos primero la primera parte: matar (digamos) está mal porque Dios lo dice, pero las cosas podrían haber sido de otra manera. Dios podría haber dicho que matar es correcto o incluso obligatorio, y sería correcto, porque Dios lo dijo.

"Imaginemos que creemos que la evidencia de la existencia de Dios no es concluyente. ¿Qué deberíamos hacer? Podemos creer en Dios o no. Si elegimos creer y tenemos razón (es decir, Dios existe), obtenemos la felicidad eterna; si nos equivocamos, perdemos poco. Por otro lado, si elegimos no creer y tenemos razón (es decir, Dios no existe), no perdemos nada, pero también ganamos poco; pero si nos equivocamos, nuestra pérdida es colosal: en el mejor de los casos, perdemos la salvación eterna; en el peor, sufrimos la condenación eterna. Tanto que ganar, tan poco que perder: sería un tonto no apostar por la existencia de Dios".

Este ingenioso argumento para creer en Dios, conocido como la apuesta de Pascal, fue presentado por el matemático y filósofo francés Blaise Pascal en su obra Pensées (Pensamientos), publicada en 1670. Ingenioso, sí, pero defectuoso. Un problema obvio es que el argumento requiere que decidamos qué creer, y la creencia no funciona de esa manera. Peor aún, el impulso que nos lleva a hacer la apuesta en primer lugar es nuestra falta de información suficiente sobre Dios para proceder; sin embargo, hacer la apuesta correcta depende de saber qué le agrada o le desagrada a Dios. ¿Y si a Dios no le desagrada que lo adoren, sino que detesta a las personas calculadoras que hacen apuestas pensando únicamente en su propio interés?

"Mirad el mundo que os rodea, contemplad el conjunto y cada una de sus partes: veréis que no es más que una gran máquina, subdividida en un número infinito de máquinas más pequeñas que, a su vez, admiten subdivisiones ulteriores en un grado que sobrepasa lo que los sentidos y las facultades humanas pueden trazar y explicar. Todas estas diversas máquinas, e incluso sus partes más pequeñas, encajan entre sí con una precisión que asombra a todo aquel que las haya contemplado alguna vez. La curiosa adaptación de los medios a los fines en toda la naturaleza se parece mucho, aunque supera en mucho, a los productos del ingenio, del diseño, del pensamiento, de la sabiduría y de la inteligencia humanos; y como los efectos se parecen entre sí, nos vemos obligados a inferir, según todas las reglas de la analogía, que las causas también son similares y que el Autor de la Naturaleza es en cierto modo similar a la mente humana, aunque posee facultades mucho más vastas, proporcionales a la grandeza de la obra que ha ejecutado. Por este argumento a posteriori, y por este solo argumento, probamos tanto la existencia de una Deidad como su semejanza con la mente y la inteligencia humanas."

Esta sucinta declaración del argumento del diseño para la existencia de Dios es puesta en boca de Cleantes por David Hume en su obra Diálogos sobre la religión natural , publicada póstumamente en 1779. La fuerza perdurable del argumento del diseño reside en la intuición poderosa y ampliamente compartida de que la belleza, el orden, la complejidad y el propósito aparente que encontramos en el mundo que nos rodea no pueden ser simplemente productos de procesos naturales aleatorios y sin sentido. Debe haber, se imagina, algún agente con un intelecto inconcebiblemente vasto y la habilidad necesaria para planificar y crear todas las maravillas de la naturaleza, tan exquisitamente diseñadas y moldeadas para cumplir sus diversas funciones. Consideremos el ojo humano, por ejemplo: es tan intrincadamente sofisticado, tan bien equipado para su propósito, que debe haber sido diseñado para ser así.

El argumento del diseño parece vulnerable a una regresión infinita. Si la maravillosa belleza y organización del universo requieren un diseñador, ¿no requiere este universo de maravillas, más el arquitecto que está detrás de todo, un diseñador aún mejor? Si necesitamos un diseñador, parece que también necesitamos un superdiseñador, luego un supersuperdiseñador, y así sucesivamente.

La principal recomendación del argumento del diseño es que explica cómo existen y funcionan tan bien estas maravillas de la naturaleza (por ejemplo, el ojo humano). Pero precisamente estas maravillas y su idoneidad para un fin se pueden explicar con referencia a la teoría de la evolución por selección natural de Darwin, sin ninguna intervención sobrenatural de un diseñador inteligente.

También existe el argumento cosmológico y el argumento ontológico, pero son tan absurdos que no vale la pena mencionarlos.

EL PROBLEMA DEL MAL

Finalmente, según el relato teísta tradicional:

1. Dios es omnisciente: Él sabe todo lo que es lógicamente posible saber.

2. Dios es omnipotente: es capaz de hacer cualquier cosa que sea lógicamente posible hacer.

3. Dios es omnibenevolente: Él es universalmente benévolo y desea hacer todo el bien que se pueda hacer.

Con especial atención al problema del mal, se pueden hacer plausiblemente las siguientes inferencias basadas en estas tres propiedades básicas:

4. Si Dios es omnisciente, Él es plenamente consciente de todo el dolor y sufrimiento que ocurren.

5. Si Dios es omnipotente, es capaz de prevenir todo dolor y sufrimiento.

6. Si Dios es omnibenevolente, desea evitar todo dolor y sufrimiento.

Si las proposiciones 4 a 6 son verdaderas y si Dios (tal como se define en las proposiciones 1 a 3) existe, entonces no habrá dolor ni sufrimiento en el mundo porque Dios habrá seguido sus inclinaciones y habrá impedido que ocurran. Pero sí hay dolor y sufrimiento en el mundo, por lo que debemos concluir que Dios no existe o que carece de una o más de las propiedades establecidas en las proposiciones 1 a 3. En suma, el problema del mal parece conllevar la implicación extremadamente desagradable para el teísta de que o bien Dios no sabe lo que está sucediendo, no le importa o no puede hacer nada al respecto; o bien que Él no existe.

Históricamente, la propuesta más popular e influyente es la llamada "defensa del libre albedrío". Nuestra libertad para tomar decisiones genuinas nos permite vivir una vida de verdadero valor moral. A pesar de esto, la defensa del libre albedrío enfrenta algunos problemas formidables.

Tal vez la dificultad más obvia a la que se enfrenta la defensa del libre albedrío es la existencia del mal natural en el mundo. Incluso si aceptamos que el libre albedrío es un bien tan preciado que vale la pena pagar el precio del mal moral (las cosas malas y odiosas que ocurren cuando las personas usan su libertad para tomar decisiones equivocadas), ¿qué sentido posible podemos encontrarle al mal natural? ¿Cómo habría dañado o disminuido Dios nuestro libre albedrío si hubiera erradicado de repente el virus del VIH, las hemorroides, los mosquitos, las inundaciones y los terremotos? La gravedad de esta dificultad se ilustra con algunas de las respuestas teístas a la misma: los desastres naturales, las enfermedades, las plagas, etc., son (literalmente) obra del diablo y de una multitud de otros ángeles caídos y demonios; o tales aflicciones son "simplemente" un castigo divino por el pecado original de Adán y Eva en el Jardín del Edén. La última solución remonta todo el mal natural al primer caso de mal moral y, por lo tanto, busca exonerar a Dios de toda culpa. Esta explicación no parece convincente. ¿No sería una monstruosa injusticia que Dios castigara a los tataranietos (y así sucesivamente) de los infractores originales?

¿Y cómo se beneficiarían al recibir libre albedrío aquellos que ya han sido juzgados por las acciones de sus ancestros (distantes)?

Otra dificultad que enfrenta el libre albedrío es: ¿somos verdaderamente libres?
Me gustó mucho este escrito, muy bien estructurado y argumentado. Gracias por compartir.
 
ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
5,323
God never existed, so he can't be dead
I was about to say this. Something that never existed in the first place can't be dead. Being dead requires first having to exist then dying
 
  • Like
Reactions: juna, geogaddi_676 and NoPoint2Life
Açucarzinho583

Açucarzinho583

com café!
Sep 14, 2023
19
I was about to say this. Something that never existed in the first place can't be dead. Being dead requires first having to exist then dying
God is dead means that He does not exist. Moreover, this title refers to the religious series God's Not Dead, and as a way of criticizing this series, I chose this title. There is also Nietzsche's phrase 'God is dead,' which means the devaluation of all supreme values
 
dazednconfused

dazednconfused

could i be an angel?
Oct 8, 2024
94
some of these replies r brutal lol. some of them clearly didnt even skim properly. definitely getting an F in media literacy. anyways. i like to believe in some sort of other power or source, just because of some of my experiences here on earth but ... it is so damn hard. and so damn unexplainable ... i think if "god" as a concept, is something that would punish those who want to be rid of their suffering here, then it is no good, just god. then there is no point to god, because that kind of god would just be... life, the pain of living.
nde's are still fun to read and ive have my fair share of dealings with spirituality so i cant completely write it off.
i give out tarot readings and the details ive been able to get on peoples lives without speaking more than a few words to them over the computer is pretty cool, even if not 100% accurate. its at least 80-90% and its comforting when im able to reach peoples hearts. no i dont do it paid lol its free. a hobby. i can't explain how it works, but for the most part it seems it does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PhDone
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,737
  • Like
  • Yay!
Reactions: Açucarzinho583 and dazednconfused

Similar threads

mrpeter
Replies
25
Views
638
Suicide Discussion
Darkover
Darkover
Darkover
Replies
4
Views
113
Offtopic
Forever Sleep
F
gnarly
Replies
2
Views
104
Offtopic
gnarly
gnarly