Venting How do we even remotely expect people to escape the cycle when we shun those who try?

[everythingblack]

This isn't so much a recovery question as it is a question to reaffirm my feelings of complete and utter desperation, hopelessness and overwhelm. How the fuck are you even supposed to BEGIN getting better when there's no open discourse, dialogue, or discussion surrounding such a taboo topic? I think we can see how people feel about suicide just from the mass amount of legislators and media among others who have come for this very website.

I've been to therapy. I've been medicated. It's not like I haven't fucking tried, right? And it always comes down to that one question, the one that makes your heart skip a beat and you briefly ponder telling the truth. "Are you having any thoughts of harming yourself or others?"
Now, to the veteran who's been around the block already, the immediate answer to that question is "No.". Those who dip their toes in may admit to having ideations, but no actual intentions or plans. And if you actually admit to going further than that? Psych ward visit!

I'm not sure about you guys and your experiences. I'm sure mental hospital stays have helped many on their path while dealing with mental illness. I just don't see myself as one of those people. If anything, I would find that experience re-traumatizing altogether. Not to mention, maybe I don't want a permanent indication on my record that suggests to others "Hey, I'm erratic as hell and possibly a threat!" I don't think I'd ever want to join the army or law enforcement, but if for some reason I some day decided I did, I wouldn't be able to anymore, amongst being barred from other career paths and opportunities. There are abusers and criminals out there who aren't treated with the same amount of disrespect as an "ousted" suicidal individual. Heck, a literal convicted felon is running for President in 2024 for Christs sake.

Given all of this information: the inability to express oneself honestly and fully, the censorship of information and lack of true media literacy, a blatant lack of resources and subsequent access to resources, consistently decreased quality of life across the board, etc etc blah blah blah.
How would you get better?
Part of me wants to cry out for help. The other part of me knows better, has been there many times before, and knows it's fruitless. I don't think anybody stubs their toe once and says "yup! I'm killing myself now!". Nobody is born suicidal; in a perfect world we wouldn't be here. But these are real issues, real people. Years and years worth of trauma, sorrow, misery, mistreatment, judgment, inequity, pain. So why are we treated akin to livestock? As if our thoughts, opinions, decisions are so incredibly warped and twisted that we can't possibly be trusted with any rational line of reasoning? I know to an extent, depression does do that to your brain. But why is everything so... clinical? It's like we've lost a touch of humanity, and in all honesty I can't blame society for that entirely, since we are after all just a product of our environments, and that environment happens to be an oppressive capitalistic system.

But still. I just want to be... seen. Heard. Helped? Maybe beyond help. I don't know what I'm really looking for. This is like my 3rd rant here and I'm going a bit off the deep end. Honestly grateful to have this space and platform to relate and maybe have others relate as well. Thank you to this community. Fuck my life.

 

[sos]

"And it always comes down to that one question, the one that makes your heart skip a beat and you briefly ponder telling the truth. "Are you having any thoughts of harming yourself or others?"
Now, to the veteran who's been around the block already, the immediate answer to that question is "No.". Those who dip their toes in may admit to having ideations, but no actual intentions or plans. And if you actually admit to going further than that? Psych ward visit!"

This is relatable. For some reason I was honest about every single thing regarding the steps I had taken to be at peace with catching the bus. A psych ward visit was mentioned several times, but I made it clear that a visit to a psych ward would limit my freedom and wouldn't be of any help at all. So they decided to leave it at that and couldn't say anything more than "well uh idk anymore".

The more common and somewhat ironic thing when it comes to admitting to having thoughts / plans is whenever they're trying to convince you that you're still alive for a reason.

"You had plans to kill yourself and a date set, but you're still here".

The whole system can be summed up by the word "joke" because it truly is a joke.

 

[Timothy7dff]

Spoiler alert: If you do everything right, they're still going to beat the crap out of you.

 

[everythingblack]

"And it always comes down to that one question, the one that makes your heart skip a beat and you briefly ponder telling the truth. "Are you having any thoughts of harming yourself or others?"
Now, to the veteran who's been around the block already, the immediate answer to that question is "No.". Those who dip their toes in may admit to having ideations, but no actual intentions or plans. And if you actually admit to going further than that? Psych ward visit!"

This is relatable. For some reason I was honest about every single thing regarding the steps I had taken to be at peace with catching the bus. A psych ward visit was mentioned several times, but I made it clear that a visit to a psych ward would limit my freedom and wouldn't be of any help at all. So they decided to leave it at that and couldn't say anything more than "well uh idk anymore".

The more common and somewhat ironic thing when it comes to admitting to having thoughts / plans is whenever they're trying to convince you that you're still alive for a reason.

"You had plans to kill yourself and a date set, but you're still here".

The whole system can be summed up by the word "joke" because it truly is a joke.

All of the clichés, the textbook replies. It's like on the one hand, I empathize with their position. This is their career path, they have certain responsibilities and duties to uphold, and they're confined by the limits of what they can realistically do to help outside of wellness checks. What can they really do? Maybe equip you with the tools to help yourself. On the other hand, we're fucking suffering lol. And the key phrase at the end of the day is help yourself. Whether somebody gives you tools, support, whatever it may be, you're still pulling yourself up. You're right by saying it is a joke. It would be so much easier if we could point to one individual or organization as the problem and assign them as the scapegoat. At least then there are actionable solutions. But when it's the system as a whole? I don't even know where to begin. Humans weren't designed to be alone. We need community, and when that's lost, it's easy to fall off. But hey, if you need anyone to talk to, my DM's are open. I'm extremely pessimistic towards my own circumstances but find it easier to encourage others.

Spoiler alert: If you do everything right, they're still going to beat the crap out of you.

Nothing quite like learning that the hard way!

 

[sos]

All of the clichés, the textbook replies. It's like on the one hand, I empathize with their position. This is their career path, they have certain responsibilities and duties to uphold, and they're confined by the limits of what they can realistically do to help outside of wellness checks. What can they really do? Maybe equip you with the tools to help yourself. On the other hand, we're fucking suffering lol. And the key phrase at the end of the day is help yourself. Whether somebody gives you tools, support, whatever it may be, you're still pulling yourself up. You're right by saying it is a joke. It would be so much easier if we could point to one individual or organization as the problem and assign them as the scapegoat. At least then there are actionable solutions. But when it's the system as a whole? I don't even know where to begin. Humans weren't designed to be alone. We need community, and when that's lost, it's easy to fall off.

You've pretty much given a definition of their job by saying the words "to help yourself". That's basically their main motto. As much as I get why people would chase such a career path, I have gotten familiar as to how useless their helping hand actually can be. I'm sure they can be of assistance to others but I would personally get more out of staring at a wall than to have another conversation with those "professionals" I've had to deal with.

We're all pretty much going on a solo mission through life, whether you're surrounded by people, or not; at the end of the day you've got to manage to live life on your own.

And while I can understand that I've got to step up and get the best out of life; I've been okay with the thought of accepting the fact that I have failed my solo mission and that there's simply nothing that can make me succeed at it.

I was once told that a depression can never go away and I've faced the truth on several occasions. It sucks, but hey, there's nothing much that can be done about that.

 

[everythingblack]

You've pretty much given a definition of their job by saying the words "to help yourself". That's basically their main motto. As much as I get why people would chase such a career path, I have gotten familiar as to how useless their helping hand actually can be. I'm sure they can be of assistance to others but I would personally get more out of staring at a wall than to have another conversation with those "professionals" I've had to deal with.

We're all pretty much going on a solo mission through life, whether you're surrounded by people, or not; at the end of the day you've got to manage to live life on your own.

And while I can understand that I've got to step up and get the best out of life; I've been okay with the thought of accepting the fact that I have failed my solo mission and that there's simply nothing that can make me succeed at it.

I was once told that a depression can never go away and I've faced the truth on several occasions. It sucks, but hey, there's nothing much that can be done about that.

I feel just as stuck. But, who told you that depression can never go away? There are effective techniques with empirical evidence that can at least alleviate the pain and symptoms. Basically rewiring how you think, like CBT or DBT techniques. I've seen others, particularly my sister, claw their way out of rock bottom. No hope, no prospects, she just had an amazing therapist. So I suppose that was lucky for her. You need to get lucky at least once. And it usually takes years of rewiring if there have been years of damage. I respect everybody's decision at the end of the day. I have my own reasons for giving up. But, depression can be treated. Whether or not that's successful depends entirely on the person, their environment, what has been attempted, etc.
Sorry again for the mini rant. Just irked me a bit that somebody would say that to you.
TLDR depression can be treated, it just takes massive amounts of energy/effort if it's severe, which is ironically a resource that depressed people are short on, making it even more difficult

 

[sos]

I feel just as stuck. But, who told you that depression can never go away? There are effective techniques with empirical evidence that can at least alleviate the pain and symptoms. Basically rewiring how you think, like CBT or DBT techniques. I've seen others, particularly my sister, claw their way out of rock bottom. No hope, no prospects, she just had an amazing therapist. So I suppose that was lucky for her. You need to get lucky at least once. And it usually takes years of rewiring if there have been years of damage. I respect everybody's decision at the end of the day. I have my own reasons for giving up. But, depression can be treated. Whether or not that's successful depends entirely on the person, their environment, what has been attempted, etc.
Sorry again for the mini rant. Just irked me a bit that somebody would say that to you.
TLDR depression can be treated, it just takes massive amounts of energy/effort if it's severe, which is ironically a resource that depressed people are short on, making it even more difficult

yea, well idk why it was said to me but i've personally experienced that a depression can fade away but it'll always be there in the background. like it's not as if i've been depressed non-stop; i've had different periods in life where i was depressed and i've climbed my way out of it several times but i have always felt like as if one little thing could open the road to a depression and opening up some part of my brain with all the dark thoughts all over again.

i guess some people are more sensitive to a depression than others. and me being one of them is something that i've accepted a long time ago.