Help How to stop living for male validation?

[eatantz]

This is embarrassing to write and post but I would appreciate any insight to help my life be less miserable.

As the title says I want to stop living and vying for male validation/attention {no incel advice please}. To elaborate, since I hit puberty being noticed by men became my ultimate goal in life.
(Thank god I was sent to an all girls catholic school or I would probably be pregnant by now)

The clothes I wear, the makeup styles I do, the way I speak/act are all controlled by what I think the average man wants. I watch those alpha male podcasts and force myself to try to fit into the 'perfect woman', but that woman isn't me and never will be. I'm only myself online and when I'm alone. My behaviour changes when men are around and my friends hate seeing me like that. I hate feeling drawn to every man who talks to me, every word they say affects me personally. All my morals and opinions disappear and I just become whatever I think they want me to be.

The male gaze controls my insecurities and my perception of myself. I want to learn to not care, and to see men as people rather than foreign entities that I owe my soul to [lol]

 

[KillingPain267]

Don't listen to these alpha bros. They are spouting nonsense trying to act tough and special. In reality the average man (including alpha bros) like most women but they have massively varying tastes (but these preferences are not even strict). A guy will like a girl who likes him and if both click.

So knowing that alpha podcasts ate BS may be a start.

 

[cosmic-freedom]

Do you have a good relationship with your father or brothers(if any)?Or any male friends?Unfortunately,if your father was a violent,narcissistic and controlling man,then this would be inevitable.Also,I would say that it's not your fault for feeling this way.The world around us entirely "male-dominated" and women's rights didn't turn up until the 1950's and we still continue to see misogyny everywhere.We have been de-humanized since the beginning of time.

But deep down,I think it comes with the thrill of exploring the unknown deep within our subconscious mind(my personal theory).

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I guess you'd just have to start learning to not give a shit about what others think of you and do what you want to do. You'll never be the perfect woman because the perfect woman doesn't exist. Men have different preferences in what they want in a partner, so you'll never be able to appeal to all of them anyway. Alpha bros are complete dumbasses, so I'd recommend not listening to them. They're idiots who contradict themselves a lot (like how they hate women in sex-work but then also hit on the onlyfans models they invite to their podcasts bts). A good man is one who accepts you for who you are and if that man doesn't exist then who cares. The only person you can ever rely is yourself so you should focus on taking care of yourself rather then on trying to force yourself into boxes to appease random men. To unlearn this behaviour means having to work on calling yourself out when you find yourself doing this type of stuff and making sure to stop it in its tracks. It also means experimenting with things like your looks and seeing what you like rather than focusing on what you think men will like. Basically, start focusing on yourself and your well-being instead of the whatever you think men will like.

 

[Artemisia]

My advice is that you have to understand yourself and why you seek that validation. Are you somewhat like that with women too (in a non romantic way), seeking approval from your colleagues? Do you have image issues, thinking that you're not that pretty, and their attention makes you feel like you actually are? Absent father you always wanted to stick around but didn't? The fact is that some people have personalities that are more social and seeking of approval, while others not so much. Add to that some internal self doubt, and they end up something like you describe. Key is always understanding yourself, but that takes time, a lot of time and very deep soul searching. A psychologist may be of help to sort these things out.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I hope this doesn't come across as incel advice (despite me being an incel who is giving advice). My suggestion is not to worry about how to be the kind of woman you think men would want, but instead to figure out how to attract or simply find the men who would want who you already are or at least would like to become.

 

[eatantz]

Do you have a good relationship with your father or brothers(if any)?Or any male friends?Unfortunately,if your father was a violent,narcissistic and controlling man,then this would be inevitable

Oh no you described my dad perfectly lol

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

Seriously don't watch those podcasts. That stuff is incredibly toxic. I would suggest trying to explore your soul. What void in yourself are your trying to fill with male attention?
Relationships based on physical attraction usually don't last very long. You need to aim higher. Look for genuine connection

 

[derpyderpins]

This is embarrassing to write and post but I would appreciate any insight to help my life be less miserable.

As the title says I want to stop living and vying for male validation/attention {no incel advice please}. To elaborate, since I hit puberty being noticed by men became my ultimate goal in life.
(Thank god I was sent to an all girls catholic school or I would probably be pregnant by now)

The clothes I wear, the makeup styles I do, the way I speak/act are all controlled by what I think the average man wants. I watch those alpha male podcasts and force myself to try to fit into the 'perfect woman', but that woman isn't me and never will be. I'm only myself online and when I'm alone. My behaviour changes when men are around and my friends hate seeing me like that. I hate feeling drawn to every man who talks to me, every word they say affects me personally. All my morals and opinions disappear and I just become whatever I think they want me to be.

The male gaze controls my insecurities and my perception of myself. I want to learn to not care, and to see men as people rather than foreign entities that I owe my soul to [lol]

Women don't know the power they have.

Getting the "male gaze" gives you power over them, not the other way around, which is why those dumbass alpha males spend their time (1) trying to act like they don't need women and (2) simultaneously devoting their whole life to getting women.

Realize the different value in different male attention. What the podcasters want might get you a lot of perverse looks from horny guys, but the actual "you" that you show online is the type that a guy could fall hard for. A deep, opinionated woman who stands by her values is the kind guys fill up notebooks writing songs about while they pine about how they can't get her attention. (Other guys, I've never done this, of course.)

If you're pretty, you're getting male gaze whether you want it or not, all the time, forever. Men pursue, women choose. Try to accept that they owe their soul to you rather than the other way around.

 

[Aergia]

The male gaze controls my insecurities and my perception of myself. I want to learn to not care, and to see men as people rather than foreign entities that I owe my soul to [lol]

Echoing cosmic-freedom, do you have any male friends? Because as someone who also went to an all-girls school and viewed men as foreign entities until she went to college and became friends with some of them, I think befriending men is exactly how you accomplish this.

 

[astr4]

do drugs instead /jk

or if ur bi like me u could lean into the dating girls thing for a while? /half jk

nah but in all seriousness it took getting sexually assaulted by a guy a few years back before i actually got over the whole male gaze thing, and even now i still get weirdly… anxious around men. went from wanting their validation to being pretty scared of them. so just wanna echo you're super valid for feeling that way.

unfortunately we're literally conditioned to want male approval like idk about you but all that disney channel shit made me think falling in love was gonna be the Pinnacle of my life and repeatedly love has only brought about misery so honestly idk boo i kinda think it's one of those things where u touch the hot stove a few times before realizing oh, shit, that's hot

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Echoing cosmic-freedom, do you have any male friends? Because as someone who also went to an all-girls school and viewed men as foreign entities until she went to college and became friends with some of them, I think befriending men is exactly how you accomplish this.

If that were the case then a lot of pick-mes wouldn't exist.

 

[Aergia]

If that were the case then a lot of pick-mes wouldn't exist.

Fair. I was referring more to the see-them-as-people-instead-of-foreign-entities bit. I think it's worth a shot since OP has already expressed she doesn't want a desire for male validation to control her.

 

[fleetingnight]

Trying out alternative fashion styles (especially uncommon/not very popular ones) helped me recognize the difference between how I wanted to look and how others wanted me to a look, maybe it could help you. Of course, a lot of alternative styles still come with their own standards, but it's a start

 

[ylenol]

You should have felt more ashamed to post this. Admitting that you react like a dog to the male praise is insane to me. Remember, people not being disgusted and speaking so casually about this on this forum only happens because they themselves are accustomed to such deranged thoughts.
If that's of any help, as a male, I find your behavior repulsive (and trust me a lot can see through you), and even more so for wanting to please mediocrity.
I hope expressing my disgust towards you was helpful and recommend rapidly growing out of whatever phase this is or finding purpose to occupy the nonsense that's growing in your head before it's carved into it forever. You should be alarmed.

 

[BruhXDDDDD]

You should have felt more ashamed to post this. Admitting that you react like a dog to the male praise is insane to me. Remember, people not being disgusted and speaking so casually about this on this forum only happens because they themselves are accustomed to such deranged thoughts.
If that's of any help, as a male, I find your behavior repulsive (and trust me a lot can see through you), and even more so for wanting to please mediocrity.
I hope expressing my disgust towards you was helpful and recommend rapidly growing out of whatever phase this is or finding purpose to occupy the nonsense that's growing in your head before it's carved into it forever. You should be alarmed.

i've said way worse shit on this forum and haven't regretted it. this account doesn't really link to my real self in any obvious way.

 

[ylenol]

i've said way worse shit on this forum and haven't regretted it. this account doesn't really link to my real self in any obvious way.

I'm sure you have. Shame shouldn't only arise in you when you fail to cater to the outside perception of you (as in you feeling safe because irl people won't read what you say here) but also when you're reading yourself. And for all you know there's a whole audience watching you at all times.

 

[bed]

You should have felt more ashamed to post this. Admitting that you react like a dog to the male praise is insane to me. Remember, people not being disgusted and speaking so casually about this on this forum only happens because they themselves are accustomed to such deranged thoughts.
If that's of any help, as a male, I find your behavior repulsive (and trust me a lot can see through you), and even more so for wanting to please mediocrity.
I hope expressing my disgust towards you was helpful and recommend rapidly growing out of whatever phase this is or finding purpose to occupy the nonsense that's growing in your head before it's carved into it forever. You should be alarmed.

please be kind to users. The OP is trying to ask for help in regards to how to stop their behaviour and work on themselves in a healthy way and you're being unnecessarily rude for no reason. you can have your opinions while also posting in a more constructive manner.

 

[astr4]

fwiw above is a great example of why you really shouldn't give a shit what most guys think or have to say

 

[ylenol]

fwiw above is a great example of why you really shouldn't give a shit what most guys think or have to say

Agreed, but please specify that you're male, hopefully it'll resonate more deeply with her.

please be kind to users. The OP is trying to ask for help in regards to how to stop their behaviour and work on themselves in a healthy way and you're being unnecessarily rude for no reason. you can have your opinions while also posting in a more constructive manner.

Sorry for the lack of tact, it's tough love and more useful than the lax, useless, obvious and armchair psychology remarks that were posted.

 

[astr4]

Agreed, but please specify that you're male, hopefully it'll resonate more deeply with her.


Sorry for the lack of tact, it's tough love and more useful than the lax, useless, obvious and armchair psychology remarks that were posted.

i'm not lol

 

[BrainShower]

I mean, it kinda sounds like you are on the right path already. (As far as being self aware about what you are doing)

But from my perspective, it helped me to think that a penis is just an enlarged clitoris and that both sexes have breasts and that the differences between men and women are quite literally "skin deep".

In other words we are all human beings and equally important. Its totally ok to be attracted to another human being but it's more important to love and care about yourself as it is to love and care for another.
This is not easy to internalize and actually believe. I have a long ways to go myself. But give yourself time and grace to learn it, as it should have been taught to us in our formative infant years.
It is not easy retraining yourself, all by yourself, to be a functional human being, when you have spent decades being dysfunctional. Believe me, im still not there yet and may meet my maker before i achieve that goal.

 

[ylenol]

i'm not lol

I figured smvrtsa, that's why I was saying it

 

[Forever Sleep]

Do you enjoy dressing up and changing your behaviour in this way? Is it enjoyable on it's own? I'm asking I guess because I assume some women do enjoy all that. Personally, I don't. 'Naturally' or normally, I like to dress for comfort and I usually look a mess! But, I went through a phase where I changed so much about myself to try to attract someone. I guess I enjoyed the validation I got from other people too. Mainly because I lost weight and people are more accepting of thinner people I find.

Still- ultimately, I think you have to ask yourself whether it's sustainable? Would you have to continue pretending to be someone else to maintain a relationship built like that to begin with? And- would that make you happy?

I've always loved this Dr Seuss quote:

Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

 

[eatantz]

Echoing cosmic-freedom, do you have any male friends? Because as someone who also went to an all-girls school and viewed men as foreign entities until she went to college and became friends with some of them, I think befriending men is exactly how you accomplish this.

I'm excited for university so i can get over my fear/obsession with guys, i agree having male friends would be helpful

do drugs instead /jk

or if ur bi like me u could lean into the dating girls thing for a while? /half jk

I'm on the path of obtaining drugs lol, and I'm pan. I've had crushes on girls but i just feel like my obsession with men is ruining my chances. I need to date a guy to get over them i think

You should have felt more ashamed to post this. Admitting that you react like a dog to the male praise is insane to me. Remember, people not being disgusted and speaking so casually about this on this forum only happens because they themselves are accustomed to such deranged thoughts.
If that's of any help, as a male, I find your behavior repulsive (and trust me a lot can see through you), and even more so for wanting to please mediocrity.
I hope expressing my disgust towards you was helpful and recommend rapidly growing out of whatever phase this is or finding purpose to occupy the nonsense that's growing in your head before it's carved into it forever. You should be alarmed.

This makes me feel sad but i also appreciate it! Thank you, its good seeing different perspectives. So are you saying i should just be myself and forget this obsession i have?

Realize the different value in different male attention. What the podcasters want might get you a lot of perverse looks from horny guys, but the actual "you" that you show online is the type that a guy could fall hard for. A deep, opinionated woman who stands by her values is the kind guys fill up notebooks writing songs about while they pine about how they can't get her attention. (Other guys, I've never done this, of course.)

Your advice is always so insightful, thank you!

 

[Dot]

Sorry for the lack of tact, it's tough love and more useful than the lax, useless, obvious and armchair psychology remarks that were posted.

= nt rlly arm-chr psychlgy t/ recgnise tht rlatnshps wth male fgures thru devlpmentl yrs wll influnce slf-imge & romantc/sexul rlatnshps l8tr on

Tht hs bn establishd fr mny yrs nw s/ recmmndng findng a psychlgst t/ hlp undrstnd & procss thse perceptns alng wth findng wys t/ nurtre helthier mle rlatnshps = sound advce tbf

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I'm not entirely sure as this is just my opinion but I don't think that you can until you experience some male validation such that it makes you conclude that male validation isn't worth it. However, you can't really know that until you experienced it for yourself and this can be a gamble as it could turn out that achieving male validation makes you crave more of it instead of less. I don't think that there's any other way to stop achieving male validation as this feeling of yours is irrational rather than logical. You can't easily get rid of feelings like this as they've been created via billion of years of evolution to make humanity survive and reproduce... though I hope I'm wrong for your sake

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Sorry for the lack of tact, it's tough love and more useful than the lax, useless, obvious and armchair psychology remarks that were posted.

That's not tough love. That's you being rude to the OP and making them feeling bad about a problem that is actually very common. This type of shit isn't helpful, all it does is make others feel even worse about themselves.

 

[ham and potatoes]

I'm excited for university so i can get over my fear/obsession with guys

I was the same way when I was 18 (although the sexes reversed)
I was obsessed with trying to get women to like me, and at the same time intimidated by them.
Took a few years, and becoming friends with some before the intimidation wore of, and a few bad relationships before I kinda gave up trying to be what I thought they wanted me to be, and started being myself around them.
Also, that "alpha male" thing is a cancer.

 

[Saturn_]

Sorry for the lack of tact, it's tough love and more useful than the lax, useless, obvious and armchair psychology remarks that were posted.

Its helpfulness isn't universal. Just because you find it to be helpful, doesn't mean it will work on everyone.