for me this is no excuse for invading a country.
But, entering a pre-existing conflict on the side of people who have been begging for your help for 8 years is something you never considered... because you believe the propaganda, and the propagandists never even alluded to the fact the civil war had been raging since Euromaidan, which you claim to know about.
Ukraine is falling apart at the seams...
nationalinterest.org
Check the dates.
The alleged discrimination of Russian speaking Ukrainian is a cheap excuse for that.
Ukraine has been shelling civilians for the last 8 years.
Alleged? lol. From 2016, UN:
Russian | Ukranian GENEVA/KYIV (14 July 2016) – A new UN report released Thursday describes the widespread killings that have taken place in Ukraine since January 2014 and highlights the very limited accountability that has taken place.
www.ohchr.org
Russian news sources have reported on it the whole time. The west? Not so much. Of course, if I link any of dozens of Russian outlets, you'd say: "Russian Propaganda!" because that's what they taught you to say.
But, ok... let's say everything for the last 8 years about the civil war in Ukraine that you never even heard was happening is only propaganda. Look at the date on the link above, again. Those civilians must have been dying of spontaneous human combustion, I guess. lol
Look up "azov crucifixion video" sometime, if you want to be sick to your stomach. There are many torture videos floating around the net of Ukrainian "soldiers" doing vile things to noncombatants. The "crucifixion" pales in comparison to many of them. Perhaps they're staged, though. I wouldn't know, I wasn't there... but the first ones I noticed were posted in 2015, and they were nonstop until Putin moved his 200k in last February. For a while, it seemed groups like Right Sector and Azov were trying to out-do Al-Qaeda and Isis with their beheading videos online.
Hate Russian-speakers if you want to. For me, it's hard to hate grandmothers who were raped, murdered and impaled on broomsticks and posed so some wanna-be nazis could get a "look how tough I am" photo op. War is hell, OP. Civil wars are among the most hellish. Remember Yugoslavia? lol.
"
Alleged"... hmph. Don't make me laugh.
I got 8 years of stories direct from good folks on the ground there that would make your hair curl, and turn white.
The promise not to expand NATO is quite complex. I don't know all the details anymore. Furthermore there are some contradicting statement from people who were involved. I think there was probably a verbal one though.
Not really all that complex. Lies told, plain and simple. They lied to Gorbachev about it, too:
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
nsarchive.gwu.edu
Spend some cash, and learn a bit about the history I remember, before you take sides on it... after all, it is pertinent to the events of today:
A leading expert on foreign policy reveals how tensions between America, NATO, and Russia transformed geopolitics ● A Foreign Affairs Best Book of 2021 and...
yalebooks.yale.edu
At the
same time the snakes were promising the old drunk Yeltsin we wouldn't expand NATO and that Russia could join (direct contradiction, go figure), back here at home the
same people were pushing for NATO expansion.
They never intended to
keep their word:
Again, check the dates. The conversation at the time was quite lively:
The players involved in this deadly "game" you are so eager to take a side in are among the most intelligent and cunning in human history. They plan ahead decades, and they bide their time massaging world events and opinions to bring about outcomes favorable to them. They care nothing for the lives of the masses.
Learn from them.
Think of the foresight it took to establish a "charitable foundation" the year before the collapse of the Soviet Union, that stands and sways events not just through the turmoil of those times- the collapse of one sovereign nation, through the creation of another sovereign nation, to still manipulate events and opinions today (including your own opinion, that you expressed in this thread):
The man responsible for forming that foundation was famous in my youth for "Breaking the bank of England". In truth, he broke many central banks... and became a wanted man in many nations for it. He was also famous for his time, as a jew, working for
actual nazis:
Rewind that to about the 7 minute mark, and listen again. Could you do that?
Indeed, the people of Ukraine (in its' current incarnation) and now the people of the world are simply
mice, toyed with by a
herd of cats.
I spent the first half of my life terrified that the Soviet Union and the United States would blast each other off the map, taking the rest of the world with it. I had an all too brief period starting in the 1990's when I believed things could be all right, until I learned (the hard way) my political class wasn't working on my behalf. I've payed attention to this particular situation, as it developed, for decades. I tried to manipulate it for the better in some small way, and made lifelong friends in the process.
Things are always more complex than the narratives handed to you would have you believe.
The "
left"
and the "
right" take advantage of naivete. In truth, both exist simply to divide us, and distract from reality. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis is (and has always been) the way to move masses.
