Talvikki
Elementalist
- Nov 18, 2021
- 818
I don't think it's a good idea to take a high dose of Propranolol with SN.
A high dose of Propranolol (400mg) with SN is not a good idea for the following reason:
1. A very high dose of a beta-blocker can slow the heart rate and sometimes induce atrial fibrillation, but atrial fibrillation does not occur in everyone.
2. On clinical pharmaceutical grounds an overdose of beta-blocker may in some people induce cardiac fibrillation while in others it may protect against this.
3. More chance of vomiting
4. Low-dose oral propranolol significantly attenuated tachycardia and improved symptoms in POTS. Higher-dose propranolol did not further improve, and may worsen, symptoms.
Explanation
In the past, in the United States, Nembutal was often combined with a beta-blocker (160-360 mg propanolol) so that death would be hastened.
Doctors in the Netherlands disagreed.
1. From the book Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death (2008, Dutch version)
22 persons drank a minimum of 6 grams to a maximum of 12 grams of liquid Nembutal, The time to death ranged from 15 minutes to 5.5 hours. In the United States, Nembutal is often accompanied by a beta-blocker (160-360 mg propanolol). There is a idea that a beta-blocker slows down the heartbeat so much that death would be speeded up. Indeed, a very high dose of a beta-blocker can slow the heart rate and sometimes induce atrial fibrillation, but atrial fibrillation does not occur in everyone. Because of this uncertainty, we do not recommend the addition of a beta-blocker. It is also not necessary because 6 grams of a barbiturate by itself is lethal.
2. From the book Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death (2006)
22 persons had swallowed 6 - 12 grams of liquid pentobarbital, often preceded by 160 - 360 mg propranolol (a beta-blocker).On average, sleep occurred in less than 6 minutes. Average time to death was 67 minutes (with a range of 15 minutes to 5.5 hours). The authors do not see sound toxicological arguments for the combina-
tion of pentobarbital with a beta-blocker like propranolol, neither do they have empirical data against using it. On clinical pharmaceutical grounds an overdose of beta-blocker may in some people induce cardiac fibrillation while in others it may protect against this. What we do know is that no one has ever woken up after taking 6 grams of a barbiturate provided no life-saving treatment had been started.
3. More chance of vomiting
From the website American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying.
https://www.acamaid.org/education-pharmacology/
4. Low dose oral propranolol significantly attenuated tachycardia and improved symptoms in POTS. Higher dose propranolol did not further improve, and may worsen, symptoms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2758650/
Conclusion
A high dose of Propranolol (400mg) is not a good idea.
A dosage range of 10 to 40mg for Anxiety tachycardia (Rapid heart rate) three times a day usually achieves the required response.
they stop tachycardia which is distressing. they also stop the associated increase in cardia output which should speed cerebral hypoxia (peaceful)
counter argument is that in aid in dying, tachyarrhythmias (fast hearbeat) are more quickly lethal than bradyarrhythmias (slow heartbeat).
A high dose of Propranolol (400mg) with SN is not a good idea for the following reason:
1. A very high dose of a beta-blocker can slow the heart rate and sometimes induce atrial fibrillation, but atrial fibrillation does not occur in everyone.
2. On clinical pharmaceutical grounds an overdose of beta-blocker may in some people induce cardiac fibrillation while in others it may protect against this.
3. More chance of vomiting
4. Low-dose oral propranolol significantly attenuated tachycardia and improved symptoms in POTS. Higher-dose propranolol did not further improve, and may worsen, symptoms.
Explanation
In the past, in the United States, Nembutal was often combined with a beta-blocker (160-360 mg propanolol) so that death would be hastened.
Doctors in the Netherlands disagreed.
1. From the book Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death (2008, Dutch version)
22 persons drank a minimum of 6 grams to a maximum of 12 grams of liquid Nembutal, The time to death ranged from 15 minutes to 5.5 hours. In the United States, Nembutal is often accompanied by a beta-blocker (160-360 mg propanolol). There is a idea that a beta-blocker slows down the heartbeat so much that death would be speeded up. Indeed, a very high dose of a beta-blocker can slow the heart rate and sometimes induce atrial fibrillation, but atrial fibrillation does not occur in everyone. Because of this uncertainty, we do not recommend the addition of a beta-blocker. It is also not necessary because 6 grams of a barbiturate by itself is lethal.
2. From the book Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death (2006)
22 persons had swallowed 6 - 12 grams of liquid pentobarbital, often preceded by 160 - 360 mg propranolol (a beta-blocker).On average, sleep occurred in less than 6 minutes. Average time to death was 67 minutes (with a range of 15 minutes to 5.5 hours). The authors do not see sound toxicological arguments for the combina-
tion of pentobarbital with a beta-blocker like propranolol, neither do they have empirical data against using it. On clinical pharmaceutical grounds an overdose of beta-blocker may in some people induce cardiac fibrillation while in others it may protect against this. What we do know is that no one has ever woken up after taking 6 grams of a barbiturate provided no life-saving treatment had been started.
3. More chance of vomiting
From the website American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying.
https://www.acamaid.org/education-pharmacology/
4. Low dose oral propranolol significantly attenuated tachycardia and improved symptoms in POTS. Higher dose propranolol did not further improve, and may worsen, symptoms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2758650/
Conclusion
A high dose of Propranolol (400mg) is not a good idea.
A dosage range of 10 to 40mg for Anxiety tachycardia (Rapid heart rate) three times a day usually achieves the required response.
they stop tachycardia which is distressing. they also stop the associated increase in cardia output which should speed cerebral hypoxia (peaceful)
counter argument is that in aid in dying, tachyarrhythmias (fast hearbeat) are more quickly lethal than bradyarrhythmias (slow heartbeat).