Venting I hate conservative, sexist men with questionable attitudes

[Judah]

When I talk about hating men, I don't mean men as an individual, but rather the set of things that come with being a man. You know, toxic masculinity, machismo and other attitudes of questionable morality. I live in a highly conservative region and it is not uncommon to hear cases of LGBTphobia, rape and sexual abuse, every day.

It's ironic that I say it, I know, but all the evils of humanity have been caused by men, selfishness and greed abound in them, and in most cases they do the most atrocious things

I'm tired of seeing on the news how a gringo is caught for the 9999th time in Medellin, Colombia, for being involved in some case of child prostitution, I'm tired of seeing how organized crime gangs and hitmen are always organized by men

Get me out of this world, I'm exhausted

 

[H0110W]

I understand the hatred. I hate many categories of people in broad strokes like you do. I used to be a chill person and I always thought that people should be respected no matter what they thought or did, even if I disagree with them. I used to be a free-speech absolutist, now I enjoy the thoughts of deportations and gas chambers for people that dare think different than me, even online. Of course it's only a fantasy and the latest product of my decaying mind.

I am becoming such a hateful person lately and I am pretty much every type of *ist and *phobe you can think of. I fucking hate, hate and hate everyone, there isn't a single type of human that I don't hate, but I hate certain types much more than others. I fantasize about inflicting unspeakable tortures on them, about wiping them off the planet with extreme prejudice.

I am a man and I don't care if you hate me, I don't know anything about you but I probably would hate you 10x the amount you hate me if I were to know you at a deeper level. There is always something in everyone that causes me to feel major hate and disgust towards them, their ideas, their looks, their smells, the sounds they make even. I hope this makes you feel understood.

But I am a really non-violent person anyway, it's just a fantasy. I don't give a shit, at the end of the day. This is not me, it's my mental illness speaking.

What I recommend is to not read the news, do not watch inflammatory and divisive content, don't engage with people who post inflammatory divisive content. By implementing these steps I can keep the hate under control. This type of hate just ruins my own life, it corrodes my mind from within. I will never do anything violent, never did anything violent, so this hate has no outlet (except for the occasional hateful post online) so it's nothing but self inflicted poison on my mind. It's better to not think about it too much.

 

[Judah]

I understand the hatred. I hate many categories of people in broad strokes like you do. I used to be a chill person and I always thought that people should be respected no matter what they thought or did, even if I disagree with them. I used to be a free-speech absolutist, now I enjoy the thoughts of deportations and gas chambers for people that dare think different than me, even online. Of course it's only a fantasy and the latest product of my decaying mind.

I am becoming such a hateful person lately and I am pretty much every type of *ist and *phobe you can think of. I fucking hate, hate and hate everyone, there isn't a single type of human that I don't hate, but I hate certain types much more than others. I fantasize about inflicting unspeakable tortures on them, about wiping them off the planet with extreme prejudice.

I am a man and I don't care if you hate me, I don't know anything about you but I probably would hate you 10x the amount you hate me if I were to know you at a deeper level. I hope this makes you feel understood.

But I am a really non-violent person anyway, it's just a fantasy. I don't give a shit, at the end of the day. This is not me, it's my mental illness speaking.

What I recommend is to not read the news, do not watch inflammatory and divisive content, don't engage with people who post inflammatory divisive content. By implementing these steps I can keep the hate under control. This type of hate just ruins my own life, it corrodes my mind from within. I will never do anything violent, so it's nothing but self inflicted poison on my mind.

When I talk about hating men, I don't mean men as an individual, but rather the set of things that come with being a man. You know, toxic masculinity, machismo and other attitudes of questionable morality. I live in a highly conservative region and it is not uncommon to hear cases of LGBTphobia, rape and sexual abuse, every day.

 

[SVEN]

If I wanted to generalise about men & women I guess I'd remember women like Indira Ghandi, Golda Mier or Margaret Thatcher when it came to warlike and aggresive behaviour.
But, I just relate to the individuals in my life. Some nice, some nasty, most just indifferent.
I'm a guy, I'm sorry that you hate me without even meeting me or knowing anything about me just because of an accident of birth, but I bear you no ill will, honestly.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I don't really see how hating on around half of the world's population is helpful. Like yeah, I get that when it comes to crimes, men disproportionately commit a lot of them, but your average man is probably just minding his own business and doing whatever. I feel like by just hating on all men you end up making it out to be that you believe in evil being an inherent trait belonging to men. This isn't very fair. Why some men do terrible things isn't something that can be summed up as just an inherent trait of their gender, but rather tends to be a reflection of things, such as upbringing and culture.

To add to this, women also have a history of doing quite horrible things. The main difference is that women don't possess as much power as men, so this results in some of these cases not being as big in comparison. Along with that, due to women generally being seen as weaker, submissive, gentle, and kind, it makes it easier for many to get away with doing horrific things. For example, one of the worst parents to ever exist is arguably Eunice Spry, who essentially tortured three of her children. She used to shove a stick done their throats as part of their punishments and even kept two of them in a basement, naked and without food, for a long period of time, giving them just enough water to survive. Both of them would get so thirsty that they were forced to drink their own piss. She got away with all of this for so long by manipulating others, but her gender is important to take note of since there is a good chance that it played a role in this.

This thread is probably going to turn into a mess and to be honest, just as how I wouldn't like it if someone made a post about hating women, I don't like it that you made a post about hating men. This type of rhetoric isn't productive in the slightest bit. To add onto this, this is a suicide forum and many of the members on here are in a vulnerable position mentally, including many of the men on here. So maybe let's not make posts about hating men?

 

[ma0]

Now would be the time I spout some bullshit about how "NoT aLl MeN ArE LiKe tHaT" but we both know that isn't going to get us anywhere. I've heard people say this before and that's usually the type of resposne I would give. I've come to realise that there really are few good men in the world, though. You've already said that you don't hate men as an individual, just the sorta shit men tend to believe. (Which a lot of them do.)

We really do go to jupiter to get more stupider.

 

[Judah]

I don't really see how hating on around half of the world's population is helpful. Like yeah, I get that when it comes to crimes, men disproportionately commit a lot of them, but your average man is probably just minding his own business and doing whatever. I feel like by just hating on all men you end up making it out to be that you believe in evil being an inherent trait belonging to men. This isn't very fair. Why some men do terrible things isn't something that can be summed up as just an inherent trait of their gender, but rather tends to be a reflection of things, such as upbringing and culture.

To add to this, women also have a history of doing quite horrible things. The main difference is that women don't possess as much power as men, so this results in some of these cases not being as big in comparison. Along with that, due to women generally being seen as weaker, submissive, gentle, and kind, it makes it easier for many to get away with doing horrific things. For example, one of the worst parents to ever exist is arguably Eunice Spry, who essentially tortured three of her children. She used to shove a stick done their throats as part of their punishments and even kept two of them in a basement, naked and without food, for a long period of time, giving them just enough water to survive. Both of them would get so thirsty that they were forced to drink their own piss. She got away with all of this for so long by manipulating others, but her gender is important to take note of since there is a good chance that it played a role in this.

This thread is probably going to turn into a mess and to be honest, just as how I wouldn't like it if someone made a post about hating women, I don't like it that you made a post about hating men. This type of rhetoric isn't productive in the slightest bit. To add onto this, this is a suicide forum and many of the members on here are in a vulnerable position mentally, including many of the men on here. So maybe let's not make posts about hating men?

You are right, I just corrected my post to avoid a misunderstanding or making others feel bad.

 

[i love yoshi ^-^]

When I talk about hating men, I don't mean men as an individual, but rather the set of things that come with being a man. You know, toxic masculinity, machismo and other attitudes of questionable morality. I live in a highly conservative region and it is not uncommon to hear cases of LGBTphobia, rape and sexual abuse, every day.

i get you. i grew up with an abusive father, and naturally i have a very negative reaction to anything masculine despite being born male.

from my own experience, i was forced to grow up "manly" and do "manly" things, thankfully i never came forward to it. problem is, there's a certain culture among men, especially spread by the likes of Andrew Tate, that maybe doesn't directly promote violence, but promotes ideas that validate it. one big thing - most men are insecure about their manliness, of course, they were conditioned to grow up to live to a certain arbitrary standard, to achieve certain goals and obey certain "traditions". one of the most dangerous aspects is how assertive men are supposed to be, this often leads to impulsive decisions and lack of respect for others and their opinions.

and it seems like being a man is a problem, but over the years i've met genuinely well-meaning people, who express masculinity in a healthy way, who don't take themselves too seriously, who are ready to accept their faults. in LGBT-friendly environments most men i've talked to don't exhibit these negative traits, or at least acknowledge them.

what can we do about it? hard to say. i think acceptance of LGBT all over the world should at least push this monolith of a culture that has been built up over 2000 years. what do you think?

 

[Namelesa]

I can understand if you are more scared of men due to them being on average stronger than women and committing more crimes and some of the more common personality traits they can have. It's understandable to not like certain traits or some of things men have done.

I have been scared of men throughout my life as I felt like men such as my dad and male teachers in school were less empathetic and got more angry so I felt like they were less approachable than women. I have had similar experiences with other men as time as gone so I am more cautious around them however I know there are men that don't act like this so I don't hate all men, just scared of the ones who act in certain ways.

I do feel sorry for them tho as they will more likely deal with things like toxic masculinity and other negative things just cus they are men and so may act in those ways because of it. No one should have to act a certain way just cus of their gender but that's society for you.

I would say it's okay to dislike men with these toxic traits and/or do terrible things and so it's understandable to be cautious around other men as they could potentially do those things but don't judge them yet as they may not have those traits or do those things and also try to be understanding and caring to the men who try to do good and had to unfairly deal with the negative things of being a man.

 

[escape_from_hell]

I'm a man. I don't really fit the qualities you describe that well other than to the extent that at least some degree of machismo or masculinity must be exhibited in some situations to avoid extreme abuse.

Even if you say you don't hate individuals that's okay. Feel free to hate me. In fact, I deserve to die, not particularly for the reasons you describe, but it doesn't really matter. If I had the option to let you kill me scot free, I would grant that to you, and hopefully that would help make you feel better at having vanquished what you perceive as evil. I DO have sexual desires, unfortunately, and based on the way people describe the fact that many men find women sexually attractive, that's probably sufficient criteria for eradication.

I honestly wish we could just hurry the F up and change the laws to allow euthanasia for men due to how they are perceived as evil and destructive to society, it seems inevitable. I am ready to go, I am just too cowardly to be tortured to death and prefer like gun shot to head or something equivalent.

 

[Namelesa]

I'm a man. I don't really fit the qualities you describe that well other than to the extent that at least some degree of machismo or masculinity must be exhibited in some situations to avoid extreme abuse.

Even if you say you don't hate individuals that's okay. Feel free to hate me. In fact, I deserve to die, not particularly for the reasons you describe, but it doesn't really matter. If I had the option to let you kill me scot free, I would grant that to you, and hopefully that would help make you feel better at having vanquished what you perceive as evil. I DO have sexual desires, unfortunately, and based on the way people describe the fact that many men find women sexually attractive, that's probably sufficient criteria for eradication.

I honestly wish we could just hurry the F up and change the laws to allow euthanasia for men due to how they are perceived as evil and destructive to society, it seems inevitable. I am ready to go, I am just too cowardly to be tortured to death and prefer like gun shot to head or something equivalent.

You don't deserve to be hated just cus you are man as you can't control that. No one deserves to be hated for their gender or sex as we can't choose what we are born with or the gender we feel. Also some of the more common traits that men have to due with society's expectations for them so they are not fully to blame for some negative traits they can have.

There's nothing wrong with sexual desires as they are something people (including women) often naturally have them. Its just that they need to be expressed at a appropriate time and place and everyone has to give consent for anything sexual to happen and people should be allowed to back out of a sexual encounter if they are no longer liking it. Sex can be used for good as way of showing love, having fun and way of expressing yourself but can be also used for bad with things like rape, sexual assault and grooming. Women have also committed these crimes so they are not fully innocent either.

 

[CatLvr]

You don't deserve to be hated just cus you are man as you can't control that. No one deserves to be hated for their gender or sex as we can't choose what we are born with or the gender we feel. Also some of the more common traits that men have to due with society's expectations for them so they are not fully to blame for some negative traits they can have.

There's nothing wrong with sexual desires as they are something people (including women) often naturally have them. Its just that they need to be expressed at a appropriate time and place and everyone has to give consent for anything sexual to happen and people should be allowed to back out of a sexual encounter if they are no longer liking it. Sex can be used for good as way of showing love, having fun and way of expressing yourself but can be also used for bad with things like rape, sexual assault and grooming. Women have also committed these crimes so they are not fully innocent either.

I agree completely with you. Saying a man deserves to die because if who he does and does not find attractive is the epitome of double standard, imo. There are/have been men in my life who I have loved dearly and would have died for, but did not find sexually attractive. Does what you are attracted to make you a bad person?? Of course not.

I am the living embodiment of "toxic masculinity" and I'm female. How so, you ask?? I was raised as my father's son until a real boy came along and then I was shuttled to the back of the bus to do "girl things" - basically be my mother's slave, taking care of babies she popped out like most people pour Skittles out of the bag - and punching bag. In response to all that I became the consummate tomboy.

If it was a traditionally known "boy" hobby I was obsessed. A "girl" hobby?? Fuck that shit. I was so polarized that my mother often voiced her concerns loud amd clear about me being "one of THOSE girls" even though in another attempt at getting even with my family for trying to pigeonhole me I slept with just about any man who showed even the slightest interest in me. If they satisfied me they were welcome back as long as the porch light was on -- literally. If they didn't show me the same amount of attention and al least give getting me where I had already gotten them they were shown the door and asked to not come back.

I got quite the reputation in college. And I didn't care. My question then was the same it is now -- Girls like me are why boys like you can have the vaulted title of "player". So why am I a "slut" and seen as a less than desirable person while you are seen as a manly man?? Funny ... No one had an answer for me.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is all these artificial groups society tries to force upon people are not useful at all. And to be honest, quite ridiculous to me anyway. I judge everyone, regardless of how the see themselves, and also regardless of outward appearances, by the way they handle themselves -- in public and in private. You will show me who you are -- quicker than you want to usually -- by the way you treat others when you think I'm not looking. Or, if you are "toxic" then when I am looking and you think you are gonna impress me -- that goes for both men and women. As well as all you queer folk on the spectrum.

It really is true that what you see is what you get -- problem is some people stop looking a little too quick and get themselves hurt. (I can say this from experience also.)

 

[Shadows From Hell]

I hate everyone, regardless of your race, religion, sexual preference, height, weight, cute, ugly, smells nice or disgusting, etc...

However, if you have cookies and share with me, I MIGHT like you for a day (2 at the most).

 

[Ligottian]

I agree completely with you. Saying a man deserves to die because if who he does and does not find attractive is the epitome of double standard, imo. There are/have been men in my life who I have loved dearly and would have died for, but did not find sexually attractive. Does what you are attracted to make you a bad person?? Of course not.

I am the living embodiment of "toxic masculinity" and I'm female. How so, you ask?? I was raised as my father's son until a real boy came along and then I was shuttled to the back of the bus to do "girl things" - basically be my mother's slave, taking care of babies she popped out like most people pour Skittles out of the bag - and punching bag. In response to all that I became the consummate tomboy.

If it was a traditionally known "boy" hobby I was obsessed. A "girl" hobby?? Fuck that shit. I was so polarized that my mother often voiced her concerns loud amd clear about me being "one of THOSE girls" even though in another attempt at getting even with my family for trying to pigeonhole me I slept with just about any man who showed even the slightest interest in me. If they satisfied me they were welcome back as long as the porch light was on -- literally. If they didn't show me the same amount of attention and al least give getting me where I had already gotten them they were shown the door and asked to not come back.

I got quite the reputation in college. And I didn't care. My question then was the same it is now -- Girls like me are why boys like you can have the vaulted title of "player". So why am I a "slut" and seen as a less than desirable person while you are seen as a manly man?? Funny ... No one had an answer for me.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is all these artificial groups society tries to force upon people are not useful at all. And to be honest, quite ridiculous to me anyway. I judge everyone, regardless of how the see themselves, and also regardless of outward appearances, by the way they handle themselves -- in public and in private. You will show me who you are -- quicker than you want to usually -- by the way you treat others when you think I'm not looking. Or, if you are "toxic" then when I am looking and you think you are gonna impress me -- that goes for both men and women. As well as all you queer folk on the spectrum.

It really is true that what you see is what you get -- problem is some people stop looking a little too quick and get themselves hurt. (I can say this from experience also.)

What is your body count?

 

[CatLvr]

What is your body count?

I have absolutely no clue. But I came if age in the 70s and we had REALLY, REALLY good "bangin'" music!

 

[Ozzyno]

I agree completely with you. Saying a man deserves to die because if who he does and does not find attractive is the epitome of double standard, imo. There are/have been men in my life who I have loved dearly and would have died for, but did not find sexually attractive. Does what you are attracted to make you a bad person?? Of course not.

I am the living embodiment of "toxic masculinity" and I'm female. How so, you ask?? I was raised as my father's son until a real boy came along and then I was shuttled to the back of the bus to do "girl things" - basically be my mother's slave, taking care of babies she popped out like most people pour Skittles out of the bag - and punching bag. In response to all that I became the consummate tomboy.

If it was a traditionally known "boy" hobby I was obsessed. A "girl" hobby?? Fuck that shit. I was so polarized that my mother often voiced her concerns loud amd clear about me being "one of THOSE girls" even though in another attempt at getting even with my family for trying to pigeonhole me I slept with just about any man who showed even the slightest interest in me. If they satisfied me they were welcome back as long as the porch light was on -- literally. If they didn't show me the same amount of attention and al least give getting me where I had already gotten them they were shown the door and asked to not come back.

I got quite the reputation in college. And I didn't care. My question then was the same it is now -- Girls like me are why boys like you can have the vaulted title of "player". So why am I a "slut" and seen as a less than desirable person while you are seen as a manly man?? Funny ... No one had an answer for me.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is all these artificial groups society tries to force upon people are not useful at all. And to be honest, quite ridiculous to me anyway. I judge everyone, regardless of how the see themselves, and also regardless of outward appearances, by the way they handle themselves -- in public and in private. You will show me who you are -- quicker than you want to usually -- by the way you treat others when you think I'm not looking. Or, if you are "toxic" then when I am looking and you think you are gonna impress me -- that goes for both men and women. As well as all you queer folk on the spectrum.

It really is true that what you see is what you get -- problem is some people stop looking a little too quick and get themselves hurt. (I can say this from experience also.)

It's not men deciding what's desirable and attractive for women… if you have sex with a thousand men as a woman you will be considered to be a slut because 99% of the men would have sex with anyone. (Much more difficult for women to find a love lasting partner who's loyal and that puts effort into the relationship)

As a man to find a sexual partner is really different because women are the ones that get to choose (unless you are a 150kg woman or just really ugly).

If you are a man and you dare to say to a woman that you didn't have a lot of partners in your life she will just stop talking with you immediately because you are a 'loser'. Even if you had opportunities but didn't take them because you as a man were picky.

It's really easy to hate on masculinity and I would really love to be much more feminine when I am around people because that's how I feel, but you gotta understand that we can't (unless you want to ruin your life). I still remember when I told my parents that I am suicidal and they didn't even said anything related to that, they just told me to 'man up' (not the literal words but that was the point). Some months ago I've met a 24 yo girl that blatantly flirted with me for months, I was unsure about her because we don't have much in common and before having sex with her I wanted to let her know me better… well, when I told her that I sometimes have anxiety attacks she literally vanished, never saw her again and her reason was 'I just don't think we are meant for each other'.

Andrew Tate, which I despise, is just a cultural response that comes from this 'trap' women put men into: be open, be vulnerable. Then when you do that you will find yourself alone and you'll ask yourself what's wrong with you.

I don't know how old are you but this is my experience as a 26 yo living in Central Europe.

 

[CatLvr]

It's not men deciding what's desirable and attractive for women… if you have sex with a thousand men as a woman you will be considered to be a slut because 99% of the men would have sex with anyone. (Much more difficult for women to find a love lasting partner who's loyal and that puts effort into the relationship)

As a man to find a sexual partner is really different because women are the ones that get to choose (unless you are a 150kg woman or just really ugly).

If you are a man and you dare to say to a woman that you didn't have a lot of partners in your life she will just stop talking with you immediately because you are a 'loser'. Even if you had opportunities but didn't take them because you as a man were picky.

It's really easy to hate on masculinity and I would really love to be much more feminine when I am around people because that's how I feel, but you gotta understand that we can't (unless you want to ruin your life). I still remember when I told my parents that I am suicidal and they didn't even said anything related to that, they just told me to 'man up' (not the literal words but that was the point). Some months ago I've met a 24 yo girl that blatantly flirted with me for months, I was unsure about her because we don't have much in common and before having sex with her I wanted to let her know me better… well, when I told her that I sometimes have anxiety attacks she literally vanished, never saw her again and her reason was 'I just don't think we are meant for each other'.

Andrew Tate, which I despise, is just a cultural response that comes from this 'trap' women put men into: be open, be vulnerable. Then when you do that you will find yourself alone and you'll ask yourself what's wrong with you.

I don't know how old are you but this is my experience as a 26 yo living in Central Europe.

Of course it's not men deciding what is attractive to women. Just like it's not women deciding what is attractive to men. I don't know if I agree with the 99% of guys will "have at it" and that's why I'm a slut. Lol I got to where I rarely asked a man over because I got turned down. A lot. And I am what I really believe to be average in looks. But even the "ugly" guys who NEVER had a woman anywhere near them would tell me no. Really funny thing was, usually about 2 to 3 months later "Mr. Picky" would approach me to go out with him. Nope. You had your shot buddy. Honestly, now that I am older and maybe a little bit wiser, I think a lot of men (even toxic manly men) have pretty fragile egos. (Talk about unpopular opinions, huh?? At least half the people on this forum are now gunning for me. )

I do find it interesting that you feel like women have ALL the power in the dating scene. I actually never felt like I was in a power struggle while I was dating. Either person (the man or the woman) in the exchange had the ability to say yes or no, depending on how things went. Dating is basically negotiations to see if you might want to spend more time with a person. Or take a relationship to a more ... Uhmmm ... "Intense" maybe ... Level. At any time during that process it is completely acceptable for one party or another to say "ok, this isn't turning out like I thought; I think I should move on" no harm, no foul. Just like when I told guys "no thank you" after an evening if I wasn't satisfied with how things went. That knife cut both ways -- I had plenty of guys decline another evening with me when I asked. I didn't take it personal. It was just the way dating was.

I knew plenty of women (now I just know a few single women from work) that felt like you do -- that because they had/have certain standards it is almost impossible for them to get a date because all the single men are only after a home-cooked meal and a roll in the sack real quick before they get on out the door to meet the boys at the bar for a couple of beers before they head home for the evening.

It appears to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same. (And Andrew Tate is an idiot. It is no more a woman's fault for not being attracted to you than it is your fault for some woman not being attracted to you. ) As far as any trap being laid, I can tell you you SHOULD BE GRATEFUL for some woman cutting it off for ANY reason -- no good comes from someone ignoring something that is a trigger for them, no matter what it is. And I'm not telling you to lie to a woman just to get a date. I am suggesting maybe you need to consider HOW you tell someone something about yourself.

The bottom line is dating sucks. But it doesn't suck as bad as being married to someone you can't stand or who can't stand you, because one of you wasn't honest with the other during the dating process. Or one or the other of you are/was aware of your shortcomings so you love-bombed your way into a relationship (and legal contract) and now it is just too damned expensive to bother getting out.

Btw, I am about to be 70, an American citizen and on my second (and last) marriage. I will NOT date, though that seems to be a big deal with Boomers in general) should I ever find myself single again. More like I will be grateful for the peace and quiet and enjoy my newfound freedom. And I have sons, only one of which has had the same complaints you have voiced. I suspect I know what his problem is but I'm his mom so what do I know?? It's got nothing to do with his looks, or his ability to earn a paycheck. His brothers, however, have never voiced the same distain he has when it comes to dating and women in general.

I am unaware how much similar, or different, dating in the US might be compared to what you experience across the pond, so take anything I have said with a grain of salt because it could very well not apply at all to your circumstance. I hope things get better for you.

 

[Ozzyno]

Of course it's not men deciding what is attractive to women. Just like it's not women deciding what is attractive to men. I don't know if I agree with the 99% of guys will "have at it" and that's why I'm a slut. Lol I got to where I rarely asked a man over because I got turned down. A lot. And I am what I really believe to be average in looks. But even the "ugly" guys who NEVER had a woman anywhere near them would tell me no. Really funny thing was, usually about 2 to 3 months later "Mr. Picky" would approach me to go out with him. Nope. You had your shot buddy. Honestly, now that I am older and maybe a little bit wiser, I think a lot of men (even toxic manly men) have pretty fragile egos. (Talk about unpopular opinions, huh?? At least half the people on this forum are now gunning for me. )

I do find it interesting that you feel like women have ALL the power in the dating scene. I actually never felt like I was in a power struggle while I was dating. Either person (the man or the woman) in the exchange had the ability to say yes or no, depending on how things went. Dating is basically negotiations to see if you might want to spend more time with a person. Or take a relationship to a more ... Uhmmm ... "Intense" maybe ... Level. At any time during that process it is completely acceptable for one party or another to say "ok, this isn't turning out like I thought; I think I should move on" no harm, no foul. Just like when I told guys "no thank you" after an evening if I wasn't satisfied with how things went. That knife cut both ways -- I had plenty of guys decline another evening with me when I asked. I didn't take it personal. It was just the way dating was.

I knew plenty of women (now I just know a few single women from work) that felt like you do -- that because they had/have certain standards it is almost impossible for them to get a date because all the single men are only after a home-cooked meal and a roll in the sack real quick before they get on out the door to meet the boys at the bar for a couple of beers before they head home for the evening.

It appears to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same. (And Andrew Tate is an idiot. It is no more a woman's fault for not being attracted to you than it is your fault for some woman not being attracted to you. ) As far as any trap being laid, I can tell you you SHOULD BE GRATEFUL for some woman cutting it off for ANY reason -- no good comes from someone ignoring something that is a trigger for them, no matter what it is. And I'm not telling you to lie to a woman just to get a date. I am suggesting maybe you need to consider HOW you tell someone something about yourself.

The bottom line is dating sucks. But it doesn't suck as bad as being married to someone you can't stand or who can't stand you, because one of you wasn't honest with the other during the dating process. Or one or the other of you are/was aware of your shortcomings so you love-bombed your way into a relationship (and legal contract) and now it is just too damned expensive to bother getting out.

Btw, I am about to be 70, an American citizen and on my second (and last) marriage. I will NOT date, though that seems to be a big deal with Boomers in general) should I ever find myself single again. More like I will be grateful for the peace and quiet and enjoy my newfound freedom. And I have sons, only one of which has had the same complaints you have voiced. I suspect I know what his problem is but I'm his mom so what do I know?? It's got nothing to do with his looks, or his ability to earn a paycheck. His brothers, however, have never voiced the same distain he has when it comes to dating and women in general.

I am unaware how much similar, or different, dating in the US might be compared to what you experience across the pond, so take anything I have said with a grain of salt because it could very well not apply at all to your circumstance. I hope things get better for you.

If you try out any dating app or if you have any social media and compare a woman's experience to a man's one you can easily realise how many choices an average looking woman has and how many choices a man has. My ex gf is one of my friends and we talk to each other without filters: she is a complete loser, never accomplished anything at all, doesn't have a job, she studies but it's the least useful university course, she doesn't particularly look good (I look better than her by a mile) and her brain is completely cooked because of her weed addiction. She could get a date tomorrow. You don't realise how difficult it is for a man do to the same. And don't take as an example the top 5% of men, they are the ones getting all the dates.

80% of my friends are women, men don't care if they are bottom crappy losers, they will date them (to have sex, they will vanish after that because they just care to use you as a piece of meat). Am I grateful women that weren't sure about me turned me down? Yes I get it, but it also comes to a point where I literally don't know what I could do more than this so my natural response is to just give up and kill myself. I don't see masculine men having my problems because women like that type of man. So what did I earn by being a little sensitive and feminine? What did I earn by refusing toxic masculinity? Nothing: I will never be loved by any woman and I also struggle to have male friends unless they are similar to me. Good future ahead uh?

 

[CatLvr]

If you try out any dating app or if you have any social media and compare a woman's experience to a man's one you can easily realise how many choices an average looking woman has and how many choices a man has. My ex gf is one of my friends and we talk to each other without filters: she is a complete loser, never accomplished anything at all, doesn't have a job, she studies but it's the least useful university course, she doesn't particularly look good (I look better than her by a mile) and her brain is completely cooked because of her weed addiction. She could get a date tomorrow. You don't realise how difficult it is for a man do to the same. And don't take as an example the top 5% of men, they are the ones getting all the dates.

80% of my friends are women, men don't care if they are bottom crappy losers, they will date them (to have sex, they will vanish after that because they just care to use you as a piece of meat). Am I grateful women that weren't sure about me turned me down? Yes I get it, but it also comes to a point where I literally don't know what I could do more than this so my natural response is to just give up and kill myself. I don't see masculine men having my problems because women like that type of man. So what did I earn by being a little sensitive and feminine? What did I earn by refusing toxic masculinity? Nothing: I will never be loved by any woman and I also struggle to have male friends unless they are similar to me. Good future ahead uh?

Ok, well, you have me there. I have never been on a dating app. So, I will defer to your experience and quite honestly, that sounds horrible and I can see why you and other young men would be suicidal having to deal with that mess. Talk about no hope. I honestly am having trouble finding the words to convey my despair for you and all the other young men who find themselves in the same spot. And I thought the world was a cruel place when I was your age. Damn. I am so sorry.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't think it's a bad idea for either gender to be wary of the other for traits that are potentially harmful. Maybe don't go in to any interaction believing they are going to be evil but don't entirely trust them either! That goes for both genders though.

I suppose overall, I've wondered what it would be like to live in a matriarchal society. Would it be more peaceful? Would women be attacked less? I'm not sure really.

 

[divinemistress36]

As a victim of assault by a "Conservative man" I get the fear of men. Your body wants to protect you at all costs and sees them as a threat. Yes, there are lots of good men but there are bad men to and negative experiences are going to make you cautious of them