I just want to Escape! (Personal beliefs and theories about reincarnation, afterlives, etc.)

[Exitwings]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

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I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

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So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

 

[KillingPain267]

I believe in the Christian physical resurrection where those who trusted Jesus as their savior will rise from the graves at judgment day and then live forever in a physical body enhanced to be immortal, painless, sorrowless and sinless. They will live in a new universe where the laws of physics are changed to allow this, and there will be no decay or death in nature either. Those who in this life did not believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins will also rise physically, but they will then be judged and cast into hell. But there they will perish, meaning they will be dead again and never rise anymore. So they will be unconscious forever, not be tortured consciously (that is a misinterpretation of metaphors in the text). So I don't believe that Scripture teaches that humans have immaterial "souls" that leave the body at death and live on consciously in "heaven" or "hell". When I die (possibly soon by suicide) I will be dead and unconscious until I wake up in my restored immortal physical body after judgment day. No intermediate state as a ghost or "soul" in "heaven". Consciousness is a product of a functioning brain, not immaterial "souls" (soul in Greek is psyche and just meant life originally until Plato came with pagan philosophy).

So the choice in the biblical text correctly interpreted is to live again forever physically (but without pain and in eternal bliss probably similar to being high on heroin constantly but without long term consequences), or to reject Jesus and be brutally executed and experiencing death again at judgment day but then never be conscious again after that (called annihilationism).

To give terms you can look up, it's "anthropoligical physicalism" and "annihilationism"/"conditional immortality").

This is just my beliefs. Maybe something you can think about and determine if it's unlikely or not and add it to number 9 if you like. Your list is very interesting.

 

[Exitwings]

I believe in the Christian physical resurrection where those who trusted Jesus as their savior will rise from the graves at judgment day and then live forever in a physical body enhanced to be immortal, painless, sorrowless and sinless. They will live in a new universe where the laws of physics are changed to allow this, and there will be no decay or death in nature either. Those who in this life did not believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins will also rise physically, but they will then be judged and cast into hell. But there they will perish, meaning they will be dead again and never rise anymore. So they will be unconscious forever, not be tortured consciously (that is a misinterpretation of metaphors in the text). So I don't believe that Scripture teaches that humans have immaterial "souls" that leave the body at death and live on consciously in "heaven" or "hell". When I die (possibly soon by suicide) I will be dead and unconscious until I wake up in my restored immortal physical body after judgment day. No intermediate state as a ghost or "soul" in "heaven". Consciousness is a product of a functioning brain, not immaterial "souls" (soul in Greek is psyche and just meant life originally until Plato came with pagan philosophy).

So the choice in the biblical text correctly interpreted is to live again forever physically (but without pain and in eternal bliss probably similar to being high on heroin constantly but without long term consequences), or to reject Jesus and be brutally executed and experiencing death again at judgment day but then never be conscious again after that (called annihilationism).

To give terms you can look up, it's "anthropoligical physicalism" and "annihilationism"/"conditional immortality").

This is just my beliefs. Maybe something you can think about and determine if it's unlikely or not and add it to number 9 if you like. Your list is very interesting.

Neat! ^_^;

Thank you, I won't. I just don't find a reason to add ones that are completely outside my personal reality (especially since the list would get ridiculously long if I started including all the religions I could possibly find). The 9 is mostly for "possibilities I can't even conceptualize because I have no frame of reference while I am currently confined to this plane of a reality."

If you're curious the "Heaven" I'm invisioning is vaguely reminiscent of the end of The Good Place and the Heaven in the webcomic Housepets. It has nothing to do with Christianity; I'm just using the word because people might kinda understand what I mean. That's also why I'm using quotation marks.

For me soul and consciousness are the same thing. They're synonyms. It's like, you don't have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body. Does that make sense?

(I'm a little confused about why people are supposed to be resurrected and then immediately die again? Wouldn't it be easier to just... leave them? Brutally executed seems a bit unnecessarily cruel of Jesus/God/Etc.)

 

[Hotsackage]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

 

[Exitwings]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

I'm curious about what evidence you say there is for reincarnation? If you mean anecdotal... the subculture I mentioned has had many many discussions and insights, both personal sharing and skeptical, about the nature of how "human" brains make memories, so I'm aware of past life memories and such. Is there another kind of evidence you could point me to?

 

[Hotsackage]

Look up dr ian Stevenson, children recalling things from past lives, it's pretty wild. And another form of spiritual teaching, but it's a complicated case.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Cool post. I really like the label of "Somethingist" :D

I've gone through many similar rabbit holes and here are some of my options:

1. Quantum Immortality -

• Probability - I think as much as 50%
• Feelings - Only desirable if I can backward jump and keep enough memory or intuition to make better decisions

2. Layered bardo/underworld

• Probability - 50%, practically every non-Abrahamic religion has a structured underworld system of rewards and punishments. Usually acts as a weigh station for a next incarnation.
• Feelings - Mixed feelings, I hope I can gain favor of the gods of the underworld and they give me a boon if true.

3. Astral Prison - The Moon is the white light people see when they have a NDE. It's actually a giant bug zapper for souls that memory wipes you after astral imposters get you to negotiate and consent to another life of suffering as part of a cosmic energy harvesting machine run by an imposter god that goes by many names and generally Saturnian in nature.

• Probability - As much as 75% I'm afraid.
• Feelings - This is almost a worst case scenario. It takes lots of inner work to prepare for this ultimate showdown against the ruler of this ancient system if true. The Gnostics did say that you can lay claim to your divine heritage to a plane above this system but the astral minions will do their best to guilt trip, coheres and tempt one into coming back to "get it right this time".

4. Oblivion

• Probability - It's hard to speculate on this one. If true, it won't matter. It wont feel like "rest" as there would be no experience of a non-resting state to compare against it.
• Feelings- This would be akin to being put under anesthesia and never waking up. Ideal for some people. The thing is that if there is an organizational structure to the universe, something like the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis or quantum immortality could blip you back into sentience anywhere or anytime and It would feel like no time elapsed in the same way that most people don't remember a time before birth. All of a sudden, here we are. Unless there's a preplanning stage, it seems risky to come back and we'll still have to deal with the mundane and painful aspects of life if reborn in this realm.

5. Ancestor Simulation

• When we die we awaken is some type of "more real" place with the realization that our lives have been played as avatars in an ancestor simulation. Perhaps we did this along with others in a "soul group". I'm not sure why we would choose to do this for any other reason besides extreme boredom with having unlimited powers in this other realm and wanting to feel immense suffering for fun.
• Probability - meh
• Feelings - meh, I'm over it. I'd like to put down the controller and power down the console. :D

Summary - Because I actually entertain these ideas, I don't take ctb lightly. I'd hate to overlook some aspect of this life and have to make up for it somehow after death. If any of us were certain we'd probably not need this site to compare our thoughts on the matter. I don't want to "die" either. I just feel stuck in this life, a prisoner of circumstances and fate. What I want is my agency.

 

[KillingPain267]

For me soul and consciousness are the same thing. They're synonyms. It's like, you don't have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. This is what I believe the word "soul" in the Bible is ACTUALLY supposed to mean. If you study the underlying Hebrew "nephesh" often translated as soul and the Greek psyche often translated as either soul or life. But it means then that consciousness is a PHYSICAL phenomenon and product of a functioning brain (so life or consciousness or "soul" ceases when the brain dies from either destruction or lack of oxygen). Thus the only way to live or have an afterlife is if your body and brain is restored from the dust (and it will according to Scripture.

(I'm a little confused about why people are supposed to be resurrected and then immediately die again? Wouldn't it be easier to just... leave them? Brutally executed seems a bit unnecessarily cruel of Jesus/God/Etc.)

Because of showing divine judgment of sin. I'm sure some people would like to see someone like Hitler not escape by suicide but rather have him dangle in the Nuremburg trials or worse.

Think of it like this: a prisoner on death row getting the chair in a month. But before that, a fellow inmate strangles him. The government who sentenced him to death row would not be satisfied and think "oh well, he got the death he deserved one way or another". No, in fact they don't just leave prisoners to kill each other, but PRESERVE the man on death row, and may even punish the strangler inmate for murder. Why? Because the electric chair execution was supposed to be a show, that the government doesn't tolerate whatever he did (I don't support the government having death penalties, by the way, it's just an analogy).

Yes, Jesus/God may seem cruel in this interpretation, but remember what the common tradition teaches: that the burning continues FOREVER. That's way more cruel.

 

[divinemistress36]

In short I believe we go to some other dimension after we die and conciousness lives on I hate to say heaven cause that sounds to bibical. I think we came here to learn and experience but doesnt mean its a pleasant experience and its up to us if we decide to ctb no punishment . I do believe in spirits and maybe higher powers of some sorts based on some accurate psychic readings I got that nobody could have known and I believe reincarnation is a possibilty. I dont think our human monkey brain can know whats really out there

 

[msesis]

Honestly I have a hard time believing in an afterlife. Except maybe reincarnation. It just doesn't make sense to me. Think about how many "souls" have been alive at this point. Every time someone is born, that's a new soul, right? There's just no way every living human ever lived is still out there somewhere. That's what, quadrillions? And then what about animals? They have souls too. When do we draw the line? What about bugs? Plants? Bacteria? There's nowhere for all of these souls to go... Unless we reincarnate and are "reused" so to speak. But that just seems too good to be true. It's.. probably oblivion, honestly.

 

[acey]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

Could you share what "evidence" you are referring to? I assume it's all hypothetical regardless, but I'm curious. I'd been searching all my life and so far all my experiences and research have only led me to believe stronger that there is only physical existence, and I hate it.

Honestly I have a hard time believing in an afterlife. Except maybe reincarnation. It just doesn't make sense to me. Think about how many "souls" have been alive at this point. Every time someone is born, that's a new soul, right? There's just no way every living human ever lived is still out there somewhere. That's what, quadrillions? And then what about animals? They have souls too. When do we draw the line? What about bugs? Plants? Bacteria? There's nowhere for all of these souls to go... Unless we reincarnate and are "reused" so to speak. But that just seems too good to be true. It's.. probably oblivion, honestly.

Even if true, the current human population of the world is about as much as existed with all time combined before (all people who died to date), so in that case it would mean there are a lot of "stagnant" souls. In the case you assume earthly existence is not the "main" type of existence, it can make sense. Like people who believe this is some kind of trial, learning experience or similar. Personally I still think it's all unlikely and are just things we come up with that make sense when looking at the world through our human experience, but thats just my opinion.

 

[sugarb]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

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I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

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So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

This is interesting.

I feel kinda alone/crazy sometimes because I'm not a hardcore "it's just nothingness and there's zero chance of anything else" type like many others here, glad I'm not alone in hoping for a cool afterlife lol

I might be a bit more deluded in my certainty levels admittedly

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

- Personal belief of probability: Not likely.
- How I feel about it: Don't care. Impossible to comprehend and there are zero downsides.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: Near certainty based off of a gut feeling. To me everything seems to point towards this life being some type of trial or simply one stage of existence, and the next step comes through the barrel of a gun.
• How I feel about it: Hell yeah. Better than this pervasive boredom at least.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: Near certainty based off a gut feeling.
• How I feel about it: Not sure what the difference between this and #2 are, if any. For me having my wishes granted would be heaven.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely.
• How I feel about it: I'd rather not, unless I was reincarnated into a more peaceful mind. Don't care if my conditions are materially worse or if I'm stupid or etc- just want a mind that's less miserable.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Unlikely. Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: Slightly more likely.
• How I feel about it: Would rather not.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Zero chance. My gut says cosmic punishment does not exist, and the only hell would be reincarnation into a less pleasant reality.
• How I feel about it: Wouldn't like it, but it's not gonna happen.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: Unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: Ehhh sounds unlikely.
• How I feel about it: Would suck, but I don't think it'd happen.

9. IDK/OTHER

yea

-

So- I entirely discount anything other than oblivion or an infinitely better existence.

 

[Hotsackage]

Could you share what "evidence" you are referring to? I assume it's all hypothetical regardless, but I'm curious. I'd been searching all my life and so far all my experiences and research have only led me to believe stronger that there is only physical existence, and I hate it.

Even if true, the current human population of the world is about as much as existed with all time combined before (all people who died to date), so in that case it would mean there are a lot of "stagnant" souls. In the case you assume earthly existence is not the "main" type of existence, it can make sense. Like people who believe this is some kind of trial, learning experience or similar. Personally I still think it's all unlikely and are just things we come up with that make sense when looking at the world through our human experience, but thats just my opinion

Could you share what "evidence" you are referring to? I assume it's all hypothetical regardless, but I'm curious. I'd been searching all my life and so far all my experiences and research have only led me to believe stronger that there is only physical existence, and I hate it.

Even if true, the current human population of the world is about as much as existed with all time combined before (all people who died to date), so in that case it would mean there are a lot of "stagnant" souls. In the case you assume earthly existence is not the "main" type of existence, it can make sense. Like people who believe this is some kind of trial, learning experience or similar. Personally I still think it's all unlikely and are just things we come up with that make sense when looking at the world through our human experience, but thats just my opinion.

 

[sserafim]

Cool post. I really like the label of "Somethingist" :D

I've gone through many similar rabbit holes and here are some of my options:

1. Quantum Immortality -

• Probability - I think as much as 50%
• Feelings - Only desirable if I can backward jump and keep enough memory or intuition to make better decisions

2. Layered bardo/underworld

• Probability - 50%, practically every non-Abrahamic religion has a structured underworld system of rewards and punishments. Usually acts as a weigh station for a next incarnation.
• Feelings - Mixed feelings, I hope I can gain favor of the gods of the underworld and they give me a boon if true.

3. Astral Prison - The Moon is the white light people see when they have a NDE. It's actually a giant bug zapper for souls that memory wipes you after astral imposters get you to negotiate and consent to another life of suffering as part of a cosmic energy harvesting machine run by an imposter god that goes by many names and generally Saturnian in nature.

• Probability - As much as 75% I'm afraid.
• Feelings - This is almost a worst case scenario. It takes lots of inner work to prepare for this ultimate showdown against the ruler of this ancient system if true. The Gnostics did say that you can lay claim to your divine heritage to a plane above this system but the astral minions will do their best to guilt trip, coheres and tempt one into coming back to "get it right this time".

Wdym by a layered bardo/underworld? Do you mean something like the 9 circles of hell? How can you gain the favor of the gods of the underworld?

I've heard about prison planet theory and the soul trap but I'm not sure on how to escape it. Don't go towards the light? That seems way too simple. What kind of inner work should you do to prepare? How can you lay claim to your divine heritage?

 

[Exitwings]

I accidentally left out a small detail that might be confusing people a little?

As I said, I'm planning to CTB to leave both this body and this universe/plane of existence. I have my sights on another universe, which I am hoping to incarnate in, in a specific way.
When I refer to my Goals, Plans, and/or Wish(es), I'm referring to: I want to slip into a pre-made life in That Universe. It is very specific and personal (and really mundane lol).

Not that yall can't share your own lists and stuff! It's very interesting. Just wanted to explain what I was talking about.

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Cool post. I really like the label of "Somethingist" :D

I've gone through many similar rabbit holes and here are some of my options:

1. Quantum Immortality -

• Probability - I think as much as 50%
• Feelings - Only desirable if I can backward jump and keep enough memory or intuition to make better decisions

2. Layered bardo/underworld

• Probability - 50%, practically every non-Abrahamic religion has a structured underworld system of rewards and punishments. Usually acts as a weigh station for a next incarnation.
• Feelings - Mixed feelings, I hope I can gain favor of the gods of the underworld and they give me a boon if true.

3. Astral Prison - The Moon is the white light people see when they have a NDE. It's actually a giant bug zapper for souls that memory wipes you after astral imposters get you to negotiate and consent to another life of suffering as part of a cosmic energy harvesting machine run by an imposter god that goes by many names and generally Saturnian in nature.

• Probability - As much as 75% I'm afraid.
• Feelings - This is almost a worst case scenario. It takes lots of inner work to prepare for this ultimate showdown against the ruler of this ancient system if true. The Gnostics did say that you can lay claim to your divine heritage to a plane above this system but the astral minions will do their best to guilt trip, coheres and tempt one into coming back to "get it right this time".

4. Oblivion

• Probability - It's hard to speculate on this one. If true, it won't matter. It wont feel like "rest" as there would be no experience of a non-resting state to compare against it.
• Feelings- This would be akin to being put under anesthesia and never waking up. Ideal for some people. The thing is that if there is an organizational structure to the universe, something like the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis or quantum immortality could blip you back into sentience anywhere or anytime and It would feel like no time elapsed in the same way that most people don't remember a time before birth. All of a sudden, here we are. Unless there's a preplanning stage, it seems risky to come back and we'll still have to deal with the mundane and painful aspects of life if reborn in this realm.

5. Ancestor Simulation

• When we die we awaken is some type of "more real" place with the realization that our lives have been played as avatars in an ancestor simulation. Perhaps we did this along with others in a "soul group". I'm not sure why we would choose to do this for any other reason besides extreme boredom with having unlimited powers in this other realm and wanting to feel immense suffering for fun.
• Probability - meh
• Feelings - meh, I'm over it. I'd like to put down the controller and power down the console. :D

Summary - Because I actually entertain these ideas, I don't take ctb lightly. I'd hate to overlook some aspect of this life and have to make up for it somehow after death. If any of us were certain we'd probably not need this site to compare our thoughts on the matter. I don't want to "die" either. I just feel stuck in this life, a prisoner of circumstances and fate. What I want is my agency.

Yeah, could you elaborate? I kinda don't know what "quantum immortality", "layered underworld", or... really any of the things on your list are ^_^;

(Also completely off topic: I've been under anesthesia quite a few times and it's not always oblivion for me, I've had the weirdest dreams during surgeries. But I also dream pretty vividly.)

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Wdym by a layered bardo/underworld? Do you mean something like the 9 circles of hell? How can you gain the favor of the gods of the underworld?

I've heard about prison planet theory and the soul trap but I'm not sure on how to escape it. Don't go towards the light? That seems way too simple. What kind of inner work should you do to prepare? How can you lay claim to your divine heritage?

The 9 circles of hell are from Dante's Inferno. I don't know what inspired his concept but it seems more like Christian morality propaganda rather than derived from an experiential encounter. Nevertheless, it does loosely resemble pagan underworlds which he was most likely aware of.

From what I know of Buddhism there are 6 layers to the bardo system. A person can learn to navigate them through practices like dream yoga and meditation. The eastern mystical arts including the various tantras, austerities, devotional practices and alms are essentially geared toward preparing oneself for afterlife navigation and ultimate transcendence from incarnation altogether. As far as gaining favor, I would assume taking on a patron saint or deity and offering devotionals wouldn't hurt and could help.

The general tone of the pagan beliefs regarding the afterlife is the there is a type of testing and judgment but without the one-and-done finality as espoused by Christian thought framed in the book of Revelation. Like how the Egyptians taught about the heart being weighed against the feather of Ma'at.

What's interesting is that both Chinese mythology and the Hellenistic Greeks had beliefs of a water of forgetfulness. The Greeks had the River of Lethe and the Chinese have Meng Po's Soup. If a person is careful to not drink too much, they will have an element of reembrace in their next incarnation. This could explain those that seem to live charmed lives, always making the right decisions and such. In todays prison planet ideology, the moon takes the role of that which causes forgetfulness. I'm not sure how "not going to the light" would actually work as I imagine it would act like a giant tractor beam.

All cultures and all ideologies have some type of emissary to help the dead or dying navigate between worlds. This falls under the umbrella of the term "psychopomp". For strict materialists this can even be a person like a death doula, hospice worker or psychedelic experience guide.

I know of only one suicide deity and this is Ixtab the Mayan goddess of the rope. There's not too much known about how her role in culture or how suicide factored into the lives of the Mayans. I'm guessing that the public was a bit more comfortable about death with all the public sacrifices.

In our modern world, the Santa Muerte cult has become quite large in Mexico. Part of the thought behind her veneration is that since death takes both the good and evil, she will still give favor to the wrongdoer if petitioned due to the impartiality of death.

"How can you lay claim to your divine heritage?'
This is from the gnostic writing "The First Apocalypse of James"

The (First) Apocalypse of James -- The Nag Hammadi Library

The (First) Apocalypse of James, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.

www.gnosis.org

"James, behold, I shall reveal to you your redemption. When you are seized, and you undergo these sufferings, a multitude will arm themselves against you that <they> may seize you. And in particular three of them will seize you - they who sit (there) as toll collectors. Not only do they demand toll, but they also take away souls by theft.
<edit for brevity>
"When you come into their power, one of them who is their guard will say to you, 'Who are you or where are you from?' You are to say to him, 'I am a son, and I am from the Father.' He will say to you, 'What sort of son are you, and to what father do you belong?' You are to say to him, 'I am from the Pre-existent Father, and a son in the Pre-existent One.'...When he also says to you, 'Where will you go?', you are to say to him, 'To the place from which I have come, there shall I return.' And if you say these things, you will escape their attacks."

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I accidentally left out a small detail that might be confusing people a little?

As I said, I'm planning to CTB to leave both this body and this universe/plane of existence. I have my sights on another universe, which I am hoping to incarnate in, in a specific way.
When I refer to my Goals, Plans, and/or Wish(es), I'm referring to: I want to slip into a pre-made life in That Universe. It is very specific and personal (and really mundane lol).

Not that yall can't share your own lists and stuff! It's very interesting. Just wanted to explain what I was talking about.

━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━


Yeah, could you elaborate? I kinda don't know what "quantum immortality", "layered underworld", or... really any of the things on your list are ^_^;

(Also completely off topic: I've been under anesthesia quite a few times and it's not always oblivion for me, I've had the weirdest dreams during surgeries. But I also dream pretty vividly.)

Quantum Immortality is a theory that consciousness can't be destroyed and therefore finds a way to persist. In the case of a premature death, awareness of self shifts into to closest adjacent dimension where it's plausible that one did not die. Oddly enough, the majority of people that consider QI are usually failed suicides, accident survivors/near misses and unintentional OD's.

In the example of a failed ctb, the person actually does "die" but transfers to the closest "reality" in which they survived under a plausible if not highly unusual scenario. For example, Kevin Hines whom jumped off the Golden Gate bridge and broke his back but a sea lion held him afloat and a driver happened to see him jump and immediately called the coast guard whom saved him and now he's a motivational speaker. Perhaps he did "die" but there were enough props in his vicinity to self organize and create a scenario where he seemingly stayed "here".

I've read anecdotal stories of people certain they were in a car crash but then the scene dissolved and it turned out to be a near miss. It's all sort of a simulation/multiverse meets dream world. People that claim to have had a potential QI experience report slight differences in their reality experience like people around them remember events differently sort of like the Mandela Effect.

Bardo is just the Buddhist underworld and layers just means something akin to floors.

Cool that you have an intention and destination world. Sometimes I'd like a chance to redo this life but other times I'd be happy to move on for good. I don't hate life, just what's become of mine.

 

[avalonisburning]

Quantum Immortality is a theory that consciousness can't be destroyed and therefore finds a way to persist. In the case of a premature death, awareness of self shifts into to closest adjacent dimension where it's plausible that one did not die. Oddly enough, the majority of people that consider QI are usually failed suicides, accident survivors/near misses and unintentional OD's.

I wonder if it's possible to die under Quantum I mortality, ever. Or if we're all individually just stuck in Planescape: Torment and we don't know it yet. Except without the magic, and cool and fantastical locales.

 

[spentspirit]

Quantum seems more likely unfortunately, although I'm not sure that it's immortality for all.

Brain experiment suggests that consciousness relies on quantum entanglement

New research indicates that consciousness may rely on quantum mechanics. Perhaps the brain does not operate in a "classical" way.

bigthink.com

Researchers Discover Protective Quantum Effect in the Brain

Researchers have discovered a quantum effect in biological systems that could protect the brain from degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and enable

scienceblog.com

 

[michibella]

The 9 circles of hell are from Dante's Inferno. I don't know what inspired his concept but it seems more like Christian morality propaganda rather than derived from an experiential encounter. Nevertheless, it does loosely resemble pagan underworlds which he was most likely aware of.

Funnily enough it is very similar to the Naraka realm in Hinduism

Naraka (Hinduism) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[trs]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

There's actually more evidence for reincarnation than there is for any other "after life" thread. It's story after story after story for millennia up to the present. And if one tune's in as deep as one can, one just can feel it to be true.
Shamanism is the oldest "form" of spirituality. And shamanic practitioner have described it forever, and still do today.
It didn't come as one "book" via a few authors, it came as an indefinite number of experiences over an indefinite period of time.

Quantum Immortality is a theory that consciousness can't be destroyed and therefore finds a way to persist. In the case of a premature death, awareness of self shifts into to closest adjacent dimension where it's plausible that one did not die. Oddly enough, the majority of people that consider QI are usually failed suicides, accident survivors/near misses and unintentional OD's.

In the example of a failed ctb, the person actually does "die" but transfers to the closest "reality" in which they survived under a plausible if not highly unusual scenario. For example, Kevin Hines whom jumped off the Golden Gate bridge and broke his back but a sea lion held him afloat and a driver happened to see him jump and immediately called the coast guard whom saved him and now he's a motivational speaker. Perhaps he did "die" but there were enough props in his vicinity to self organize and create a scenario where he seemingly stayed "here".

I've read anecdotal stories of people certain they were in a car crash but then the scene dissolved and it turned out to be a near miss. It's all sort of a simulation/multiverse meets dream world. People that claim to have had a potential QI experience report slight differences in their reality experience like people around them remember events differently sort of like the Mandela Effect.

Bardo is just the Buddhist underworld and layers just means something akin to floors.

Cool that you have an intention and destination world. Sometimes I'd like a chance to redo this life but other times I'd be happy to move on for good. I don't hate life, just what's become of mine.

You are speaking of near death experiences. This has been experienced and reported by people since time immemorial.
We are surrounded by conscious spirit and spirits. The sea lion was one, and I'm sure knew exactly what was going on and what he was supposed to do.
We are still conscious after we pass. Those who speak to spirits who are passed speak with intelligent, conscious spirits.
Shamanic practitioners have spoken with them for millennia and still do today.
Consciousness does not get destroyed. Consciousness is an energy just like any other physical energy and we know via physics energy is matter and that matter is neither created nor destroyed, it can simply change forms. Our consciousness changes from being housed in this physical form into a different form after we pass.
I've actually experienced interacting with the form after some close to me have passed. It feels like other non-visible energy one might feel here in 3D.

They aren't "stagnant" souls when they aren't incarnated. If anything because the 3D physical is the least expanded state we can inhabit, it can be juxtaposed that this is as "stagnant" a state as our soul might experience. What we cannot perceive with the five senses is beyond what we can physically comprehend. Still remaining within the physical, many animals other than ourselves can perceive different physical frequencies of the 3D physical spectrum which we cannot, and we sometimes can perceive a few that they may not.
We are very limited by the physical parameters of this dimension or this existence, but our soul is not limited to existing in this dimension, it is a temporal existence for us. We are only here briefly. But we truly exist outside of time. The soul is beyond time and beyond this 3D.
The more physics explores additional dimensional realities and the boundaries of our known universe, the more it sees that parameters such as time fall apart. And this is modern day science, but those "non" scientists, the spiritual leaders of communities (shamanic practitioners, etc.) since time immemorial would tap into these expanded universal boundaries and experience the things which "science" is beginning to see.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

═════════════════════════

I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰

So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

This is the most interesting thing I have read in a long while, so thank you. Somethingist & meatsuit are now part of my vernacular, so thank you again. I think oblivion is most likely our personal experience, but not the experience of our souls. I believe that energy never dies, it just changes form. To what form? And are we aware? Fucked if I know. I watched someone die & I only knew when it happened because the doctor came in & said so (they turned all the screens off in the room but obvs not outside the room). I am not religious. At. All. But I really thought I would feel it when they died, feel something, anything. Probably just a shift. That's probably the best way to describe it - a shift in energy. Something leaving, something staying. I spent a lot of time with that person dying & talked to them the whole time, they might've left to shut me up. But once the doctor said they were gone, their physical body didn't matter to me anymore. That's not where they are now. I still talk to that person, a lot. But their body stopped being of any interest to me & I was shocked that the doctors wanted me to say goodbye. I'd been saying goodbye to their person & their soul & then that left. Why would I want to talk to an empty vessel? And I was shocked that people wanted to see that vessel embalmed. But to each their own. I don't visit where their vessel ended up. Or anyone else's. That's not where they are to me. But that does not mean I love them any less than someone that goes with flowers to a grave site every day. I have loved all my humans that died. I only talk to two because of their relationship to me - the everlasting bonds. Do I think they can hear me? Probs not. But also, kind of?? Do I think the universe does? Yes. I know that talking to them helps me. But I don't think that's the only reason I do it. When the first & second of my best humans died (not my 2), I was overwhelmed by a feeling / thought "they were here & now they're gone". Over & over in a loop. They were here & now they're gone. I spent a lot of time studying different religions, trying to find something that fit, that made sense, that would bring me peace. But my rational mind wouldn't allow it. It's not how I think or feel & I can't change that. It was difficult to accept when the first of my 2 humans died - I didn't talk to them at the start. I worried that was crazy. I didn't know "normal" people do it. All. The. Time. Normies!!! I had no idea. It took a long time & a very specific song to convince me - I pretty much "guarantee" that it's not the same song for anyone else in this universe, it's such a weird choice. But it brought me comfort. And I was in desperate need of comfort.
I have vivid dreams too & both my humans were in the same dream this week & I talked to them, just a normal convo & by golly, it felt real. And I wondered, if, on some level it was. That they know I'm coming. Or going. Whatever the case may be. Let's just call it "the bus" to make things easy. And even though I have considered CTB'ing for 3 decades, I think probably the clincher was watching my human die & not feel anything. Not about their death, I have all the feels about that. All of them. I mean that I didn't feel them leave. Or stay. It was just a nothingness. I don't know where they went but I don't believe they're gone, gone. But it made me think it wasn't the worst thing in the world to do anymore, that it wasn't wrong. That we are specks in the cosmos & we'll keep mattering to who we matter to. But as what matter? Fucked if I know. I'm very scared to CTB, I'm very scared to fail. I don't know where I'll go & as a control freak, that loss of control is staggering. But the bus is calling my name & I will be on a seat someone saved for me & it will take me wherever I'm supposed to go. Buses have routes, right?
I'm not gonna reread this before I post. Stream of consciousness. Catharsis. Someone else's problem to read or ignore.
PS I have 100% respect for every single other human in the world for their beliefs, I will never try to change someone's mind or inflict my views & I appreciate the same in return. And, send.

 

[Infinitespace_]

when you die you will die in unconsciousness so you wont get your answer even after death, sorry lol

 

[Exitwings]

There's actually more evidence for reincarnation than there is for any other "after life" thread. It's story after story after story for millennia up to the present. And if one tune's in as deep as one can, one just can feel it to be true.

You realize that that could easily be a Survivor Bias, right? Only reincarnated people would actually be here to tell us. The ones that went to afterlives... would still be there?

Assuming of course that both are possible.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

You are speaking of near death experiences. This has been experienced and reported by people since time immemorial.
We are surrounded by conscious spirit and spirits. The sea lion was one, and I'm sure knew exactly what was going on and what he was supposed to do.

No, QI is different than a NDE. With Qi there isn't a white light or out of body experience, it's more along the lines of a reality shift or dimensional jump. The near death event occurs or in some cases doesn't even actually happen and is more like a precognitive vision and the subsequent experience is of that being in a slightly different world.

 

[Beyond_Repair]

I think the theory of reincarnation is interesting. Children having vivid memories of past lives without any supposed outside influence is difficult to explain

Near death experiences are difficult to interpret as proof because when the brain is dying it releases a flood of endorphins and other chemicals that mimic the effects of a psychedelic trip, causing hallucinations (which would explain seeing people, places, god, etc). There has also been studies of these cases that have found that the things people see and experience are connected to their culture/belief system. So people who are Christian might see God/Jesus/Heaven while agnostics might see something entirely different. I would have to do some digging to find the study though

I personally prefer the idea of oblivion. The idea that there might be a higher form of life that we return to when we die isn't appealing to me, because I don't know how much autonomy we would have or what, if any, "government" there would be (what if it's like a totalitarian government and "souls" have no control over their lives whatsoever?) I'd prefer nothing versus chancing it

if showing divine judgment of sin. I'm sure some people would like to see someone like Hitler not escape by suicide but rather have him dangle in the Nuremburg trials or worse.

According to your interpretation, would someone like Hitler be in the same league (and deserving the same punishment) as someone who wasn't a believer, didn't believe in God/Jesus but otherwise was a decently moral person in everyday life? Just curious

 

[lomorbu]

Reincarnation is my biggest nightmare because the idea of having to live life pretty much until the sun goes out sounds bleak. I remember being told there is a belief that hell is on Earth and we are suppose to break through it to reach Nirvana or heaven. I'm not sure if that meant death or a form of higher consciousness.

 

[esistzeit]

This was fun to read, thank you.

I'm more inclined towards nothingness. What happens when the body cannot sustain consciousness (sleep, fainting, etc)? You black out and there is nothing. Dying is when the body is brought to a point where it can no longer sustain consciousness, ever again.

But not fulfilling my dreams hurts too much so I indulge in fantasies that allow me to be happy. Like restarting life with all memories intact or ascending to a fourth dimension.

 

[J&L383]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

═════════════════════════

I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰

So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

Wow, you've certainly given it a lot of thought! I personally believe in the number one scenario. I also can totally relate to being in some sort of meatsuit. It feels frustrating and limiting most of the time, but at the same time I do appreciate many elements of the physical universe. Sometimes I feel I just want out right now, other times I feel like time will pass soon enough and maybe I can just make it to the "end" however that is. My only observation from where I'm sitting is that in your case, that as long as you continue to be able to mull these things over, perhaps you're not ready? Another day, another week, another year, time is relative. I do wish you the best and thank you for your post it was very interesting!

 

[Exitwings]

Wow, you've certainly given it a lot of thought! I personally believe in the number one scenario. I also can totally relate to being in some sort of meatsuit. It feels frustrating and limiting most of the time, but at the same time I do appreciate many elements of the physical universe. Sometimes I feel I just want out right now, other times I feel like time will pass soon enough and maybe I can just make it to the "end" however that is. My only observation from where I'm sitting is that in your case, that as long as you continue to be able to mull these things over, perhaps you're not ready? Another day, another week, another year, time is relative. I do wish you the best and thank you for your post it was very interesting!

^_^; thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by "not ready" because I'm "still able to mull things over"?

I believe I'm ready mentally and emotionally (and I suppose "spiritually", assuming that refers to all the metaphysical stuff I've been talking about) to leave Here. Unfortunately the practical physical deactivation is, as I've said, really goddamn difficult. Feel free to check my posting history for more context of how I've been trying to find a method for... I think a year and a half now? I gave up on this universe/version of Earth then, mostly because I gave up on trying to find a surgeon who will fix the cause of my chronic illness, (and partially because I finally figured out what my destination universe looks like, what Home looks like.)

Oh, perhaps I should have given the context in that quick intro bit in the first post: I'm not depressed. I've made the (unfortunately rational) decision to CTB because my circumstances are very bad with no more hope in sight. I'm in constant full body pain, had to put my transition on hold, can't do any of my hobbies anymore, and the symptoms are and have always been progressive. I'm not suicidal because of any mental illness – it's Shit Life Syndrome, unfortunately.

edit:
(Not directed at previous poster)
I can't emphasize it enough I want to go HOME!!!