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ArteriesBindEveryon

ArteriesBindEveryon

Student
Feb 9, 2023
100
This is a story that I've been thinking about a lot lately and I wanted to hear opinions of people here. I've wanted to talk about this with someone else for years and feel like this is the only place where I can get a valuable opinion. I ask that you please read the entire story before commenting.
The first thing to understand is my experience with suicide. I've been contemplating suicide since I was seven years old. My whole life and still to this day, I've seen death as the end goal of life due to its inevitability and believe that there's nothing wrong with taking a shortcut to that ending. I've never been anti-suicide and think that punishing or being afraid of someone for being suicidal is unethical. This is the story of the one time I betrayed these strongly held beliefs.
There was this boy who we'll call Tim. Tim and I had been friends since sixth grade and were now in high school. I believe we were in tenth grade when his parents got divorced. Shortly after the divorce his mother started seeing another woman. Tim saw this as a betrayal to his family and started to become homophobic. At first it was just edgy jokes but it quickly became apparent that he was genuinely becoming hateful. I started making fun of him for this implying that he was gay himself and was trying to cover it up by being a homophobe, which he pushed back against very heavily. We kept teasing him about him being gay not because we thought he was, but because we wanted him to become embarrassed to be homophobic outwardly.
One day when we were in eleventh grade, Tim tried to "prove" that he wasn't gay by showing us his camera roll, which had a bunch of heterosexual porn videos downloaded in a row. Absolutely no person who was actually straight would do this, and at this moment it became clear that he was actually gay. I stopped teasing him for being gay even though he was still being extremely homophobic. I stopped sitting with Tim at lunch not long after this incident because his hatred had started to become worse. From the people who still talked to him, I learned that his beliefs had only gotten more radical, now at nazi-levels of evil. He'd begun to tell his friends that he was a white nationalist and genuinely believed in ethno-states.
Come our senior year of high school, in I believe October, I run into Tim in the hallway talking with some other people before class. He made a comment about killing himself, but didn't laugh at all when he said it. I asked if he was serious and he said, "Well, you never know." He was smiling, but his eyes and tone were full of sadness. From one suicidal person to another, I could tell that he was serious. I became incredibly concerned at this point not because of the possibility of suicide, but because of the radical beliefs he held at the time. This was the same year as the Parkland high school shooting as well as several other mass murders. While I do believe in the right to die, I also don't believe that anyone should have their life taken away against their will.
I thought very hard about what to do and eventually decided that it would be best to report him to the school councilor. I spoke to two people who were mutual friends of Tim and I and told them what I was thinking. They agreed with me and the three of us went to the office to tell an authority figure what was going on. I felt incredibly guilty about this because while I certainly didn't want a tragedy to befall our school, I was assuming that someone I once considered to be a friend was a potential school shooter. I had no idea if he had access to firearms and no evidence that this was a possibility beyond the fact that he was someone with outrageous beliefs and nothing to lose. And to make matters worse, I was compromising my own held beliefs on suicide by snitching on a fellow suicidal student. I don't think Tim ever found out that I was the one who lead the mission to get him reported.
I didn't speak to Tim again after this incident until the very end of high school. Our school put on a late-night senior party for us graduates. I ran into Tim there talking to some other friends of ours. It turned out that Tim had come out as gay and that he had a boyfriend at one point earlier in the year, though they broke up because he was moving away. He said he wanted to put all his edgy past behind him and start over. We hung out for a bit at the party, then parted ways and never saw each other again.

That's the story. Now, I want you to judge me for my actions. Everything we've been taught by wider society tells me that I did the right thing, but I still can't help but feel that I betrayed myself as well as all other suicidal people by doing what I did. I had no proof that he had any intention of harming others, only that he wanted to harm himself. While Tim came out of the ordeal a better person, there's no telling if my report is what helped him change and what I could've put him through. Did I do the right thing? Am I a traitor to suicidal people everywhere?
 
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Ash

Ash

What dreams may come?
Oct 4, 2021
1,758
I think, given information you've provided and the particular context, you did the right thing.

Also, it's worth remembering that not every person who feels suicidal wants to die.

We've all got things we can beat ourselves up for but I think you can let this one go.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
21,206
Hmm well it seems to have worked out for him so I doubt you ought to be judged too negatively for that. As for betraying your suicidal beliefs, I don't believe that's what happened either because you were simply prioritizing the lives of others and preventing them from potentially losing their lives against their will. Maybe if it had turned out that after being reported he would have gotten even worse and more hateful you might have a point but since he was able to come out and put his past behind him it seems like you genuinely did him and probably your entire school a favor.

Again, I do not believe you have betrayed your principles at all because you were both minors in this situation so according to this site's rules and philosophies at least you still did the right thing. Remember that we are pro choice more than anything else. I presume you must also be pro choice otherwise you wouldn't have cared that other people's lives were in danger. You can still want death for yourself without having to needlessly cast it upon others who don't want it. Reporting him was simply an expression of pro choice ideals. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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ArteriesBindEveryon

ArteriesBindEveryon

Student
Feb 9, 2023
100
Hmm well it seems to have worked out for him so I doubt you ought to be judged too negatively for that. As for betraying your suicidal beliefs, I don't believe that's what happened either because you were simply prioritizing the lives of others and preventing them from potentially losing their lives against their will. Maybe if it had turned out that after being reported he would have gotten even worse and more hateful you might have a point but since he was able to come out and put his past behind him it seems like you genuinely did him and probably your entire school a favor.

Again, I do not believe you have betrayed your principles at all because you were both minors in this situation so according to this site's rules and philosophies at least you still did the right thing. Remember that we are pro choice more than anything else. I presume you must also be pro choice otherwise you wouldn't have cared that other people's lives were in danger. You can still want death for yourself without having to needlessly cast it upon others who don't want it. Reporting him was simply an expression of pro choice ideals. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yes it worked out ok in the end, but at the time I did it there was no way of knowing for sure that it would. That's where the problem lies. As a suicidal person I know I wouldn't have wanted someone to report me. Was the concern of safety still justified when I didn't know if he had access to guns? That's the question that keeps me up at night.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
21,206
Yes it worked out ok in the end, but at the time I did it there was no way of knowing for sure that it would. That's where the problem lies. As a suicidal person I know I wouldn't have wanted someone to report me. Was the concern of safety still justified when I didn't know if he had access to guns? That's the question that keeps me up at night.
I understand you must be worried about what if another outcome had happened. For what it's worth, I still think it wasn't betraying yourself just because you acted without all the information. The important thing is you did take action and you got the added bonus of it working for the better.

Just as an example, if someone ever did report you and it successfully improved your life to the point where you weren't suicidal anymore, would you be okay with that? Sure now you think that there's no way you could ever not be suicidal but it's very possible that so did he. It's okay if your answer is still no and that you still wouldn't have wanted someone to report you even if it somehow improves your life in every measurable way.

As a reminder again, you were not betraying pro-choice suicides by making sure other people weren't robbed of their lives who didn't want it. It doesn't matter that you didn't have all the information or that maybe there was never any such threat. You still acted under pro-choice as a guiding principle and that's all there is to it. Unless you're one of those who believes that everybody should die to be free from all suffering from any kind (which is valid though I doubt that's what you actually believe), then simply helping someone else get a better shot at life is not betraying yourself.
 
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ArteriesBindEveryon

ArteriesBindEveryon

Student
Feb 9, 2023
100
I understand you must be worried about what if another outcome had happened. For what it's worth, I still think it wasn't betraying yourself just because you acted without all the information. The important thing is you did take action and you got the added bonus of it working for the better.

Just as an example, if someone ever did report you and it successfully improved your life to the point where you weren't suicidal anymore, would you be okay with that? Sure now you think that there's no way you could ever not be suicidal but it's very possible that so did he. It's okay if your answer is still no and that you still wouldn't have wanted someone to report you even if it somehow improves your life in every measurable way.

As a reminder again, you were not betraying pro-choice suicides by making sure other people weren't robbed of their lives who didn't want it. It doesn't matter that you didn't have all the information or that maybe there was never any such threat. You still acted under pro-choice as a guiding principle and that's all there is to it. Unless you're one of those who believes that every should die to be free from all suffering from any kind (which is valid though I doubt that's what you actually believe), then simply helping someone else get a better shot at life is not betraying yourself.
I don't know what happened to him after high school but I think you're right. From what I know and knew at the time it seems like I did the right thing. Thank you, it really helps to hear other pro-choice people say that.
 
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UKscotty

Doesn't read PMs
May 20, 2021
2,450
I think as decent humans, trying to help someone is the right thing to do.

Suicide is the last resort, not the first. I'd rather get well than die.
 
Coconut blue

Coconut blue

Student
May 13, 2024
161
Don't blame yourself for it OP, in your shoes i would've done the same thing
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,742
Given the context of the situation I think you did the right thing. The mixture of his disturbing beliefs at the time, along with him clearly struggling mentally, make it understandable as to why you would have had concerns about him. Not everyone going through suicidal ideation wants to actually die anyway and it's clear that what you did ended up allowing him to finally get the help he needed, so there isn't anything to feel guilty.

I didn't speak to Tim again after this incident until the very end of high school. Our school put on a late-night senior party for us graduates. I ran into Tim there talking to some other friends of ours. It turned out that Tim had come out as gay and that he had a boyfriend at one point earlier in the year, though they broke up because he was moving away. He said he wanted to put all his edgy past behind him and start over
^ I'm also really glad to hear about him accepting his sexuality and throwing away his past bigoted beliefs. I hope he's doing well, where ever he is in life.
 
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itsneverbeenmoreove

itsneverbeenmoreove

You are just my love
May 21, 2024
78
I definitely think that, given what you knew of his politics, you did the right thing. I would never want to deny someone the chance to choose their own path, but if they involve other people, I don't think that's acceptable. And we've seen a lot of violence from white nationalists over the past decade in the US. Life is valuable in the sense that all people should have the right to live or end their lives how they please. But ending someone else's life in the process of ending your own goes against what I think is core to having a choice.

And I'm glad he was able to move past those beliefs.
 
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