Idea for nitrogen tank setup, feedback needed

[clearheadedclarity]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking for a while on the forum, and I'm grateful for all the advice and support that you guys offer. It feels like a lot of the posters here are able to truly empathize with the emotional / psychological / physical pain that some of us are experiencing. I was facing a stage iv cancer diagnosis, and I wanted to make a smooth exit instead of relying on hospice care for the next year or two. I didn't have a high budget, but I wanted to see what you guys think of this idea for a nitrogen setup.

I am located in the United States. I had planned on getting a 40 cu food grade nitrogen tank for a local gas supplier, that I recently created an account with. It has a standard CGA-580 connector.

I was on a budget, so I was trying to find a lower cost way of building a reliable mask setup. Here's the setup I was planning:

Amazon.com

This was the flow regulator I was planning on getting. I know that the forums recommend a 15 lpm flow meter, but this one measured in SCFH (standard cubic feet per hour).

I used this online converter:

Liters Per Minute to Cubic Feet Per Hour | Kyle's Converter

Instantly Convert Liters Per Minute (L/min) to Cubic Feet Per Hour (cu ft/h) and Many More Flow Conversions Online. Liters Per Minute Conversion Charts. Many Other Conversions.

www.kylesconverter.com

15 lpm converted to 31 scfh roughly, but I'm not completely confident I'm doing the math right. I've also heard that argon and nitrogen may have differences in densities / weight that would impact the reading on the flow meter, but I don't know a lot about this. If I'm doing something wrong, I would be very grateful for any feedback.

I had planned to connect this flow meter using a 1/4" barb connector to a 60 psi rated 1/4" hose.

Amazon.com

I was worried that the nitrogen gas coming out of the tank would be cold and would cause discomfort, so I was planning on using a 10 foot hose to help warm the gas up a bit to ambient temperatures.

The other end of the hose I planned to connect to this:

Amazon.com

This is a 1/4" barb to 1.5" connector.

Barbs on both ends would be secured with these:

Amazon.com

I planned to install the 1.5" connector into the 40 mm (1.57") filter port for a gas mask. It seems that most gas masks (either surplus military ones or civilian ones) use 40 mm filters.

I know this wouldn't be an exact fit, but I believe this connector should fit relatively snugly inside the 40 mm filter port. I planned on using a combination of Gorilla glue / gorilla tape / mini clamps to securely fix the connector inside the 40 mm port. I believe I can get an airtight seal that won't blow out, as long as it's placed correctly.

For the mask, I was planning on using any gas mask with a 40 mm filter port, like this one:

Amazon.com

I plan to place the mask on my head and use duct tape around all the edges to ensure that air can't leak in. I also plan to shave my head / beard so there isn't any hair that could increase the risk of air leaks. I planned to make the connection from the hose to the flow meter last, so I can have the mask on and breath regular air while I'm adding duct tape around the edges of the mask. I should be able to connect the hose to the barb and secure the clamp in about 5-10 seconds. I was also planning on taking at least 10 mg of bromazolam (a benzo) to reduce fear / anxiety as I was getting ready to exit.

In total, the cost of this setup would be less than $400, which was in my budget. If I had extra money, I would probably use a full face SCUBA or SCBA mask, but unfortunately I can't afford those at this time.

If you have recommendations for changes to this setup or ideas for a different mask / regulator / anything else, I'd be very grateful. I've done basic research into a lot of this, but this is one of those things that I definitely wouldn't want to mess up and leave myself in a coma / brain damaged. If you have any ideas about how to make this setup safer (ie a cleaner exit without the risk of serious disability), I'd be grateful.

Thanks for your help, and thank you to this community for all you do.

 

[Kapsyl]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking for a while on the forum, and I'm grateful for all the advice and support that you guys offer. It feels like a lot of the posters here are able to truly empathize with the emotional / psychological / physical pain that some of us are experiencing. I was facing a stage iv cancer diagnosis, and I wanted to make a smooth exit instead of relying on hospice care for the next year or two. I didn't have a high budget, but I wanted to see what you guys think of this idea for a nitrogen setup.

Welcome to the community, even if it sounds strange welcoming someone here since being here in the first place require some agony and torment to even considering joining. Either way welcome!

15 lpm converted to 31 scfh roughly, but I'm not completely confident I'm doing the math right. I've also heard that argon and nitrogen may have differences in densities / weight that would impact the reading on the flow meter, but I don't know a lot about this. If I'm doing something wrong, I would be very grateful for any feedback

Argon is a heavier gas then nitrogen and has slightly different properties, but nitrogen flows easier then argon

12.5LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~15litres LPM nitrogen flow
- 15LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 18LPM nitrogen flow
- 20 LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 24 LPM nitrogen flow

You method would probably require a much higher flow rate then 15/lpm, each breath you take would be limited to what's in the hose at that exact moment and you would probably feel suffocated. Try breathing from a garden hose which is cut of the end is probably a similar experience.

was worried that the nitrogen gas coming out of the tank would be cold and would cause discomfort, so I was planning on using a 10 foot hose to help warm the gas up a bit to ambient temperatures.

I've had no problems of it being cold, even trough I have a "cool nitrogen bottle". Use as long as hose you need but no need for extra long because it's not cold.

I planned to install the 1.5" connector into the 40 mm (1.57") filter port for a gas mask. It seems that most gas masks (either surplus military ones or civilian ones) use 40 mm filters.

40mm it's the nato standard tread used on many military gas mask and seems to be popular in the industry too.

Unfortunately the method you describe has a fatal flaw, if you continuously let nitrogen flow into the mask, it has to go somewhere. The idea is that you breathe it but if you can't keep it up, overpressure will start to form and will find somewhere to escape at the weakest link. Probably around the contours of the face mask.


What happens after you loose consciousness, you breathe a lot less but the gas is continuously flowing at the same rate and even more will start to leak. I'm not saying this is impossible but the overpressure concern is a real failure point and duct taping the mask around the face might make it worse since it might leak somewhere worse.

Lucky for you I had the same idea you have but come to a different conclusion. Instead of directly connecting the nitrogen to the gas mask, use a reservoir between the nitrogen and the gas mask. This enables you to take a full breath from the reservoir without a problem and the flow meter keeps filling the reservoir with inert gas. The reservoir also enables you to bleed out excess pressure to keep the reservoir to build to much pressure, I use a one way ball valve to achieve this.

This solution makes it very easy to breathe from and it's not forcing inert gas in the mask, also when stop breathing the inert gas will just bleed out without creating pressure around the seal of the mask eliminating the risk of air leaking in. It also creates a failsafe if the gas stops working or runs out, you will suffocate the ordinary way since there is very little air getting in the system if built correctly. Hopefully you are already unconscious at this scenario.

I plan to place the mask on my head and use duct tape around all the edges to ensure that air can't leak in. I also plan to shave my head / beard so there isn't any hair that could increase the risk of air leaks. I planned to make the connection from the hose to the flow meter last, so I can have the mask on and breath regular air while I'm adding duct tape around the edges of the mask

Have you tried a gas mask before? They already are airtight since it depends on that to function in a CBNR environment, at least a military grade one. Shaving your face is a good idea trough, other than that shaving the hair is not necessary but it could make it easier to put it on correctly depending on how long your hair is. For extra measure you could use some moisturizer the make the skin around the face more "sticky" creating a better seal.

I would recommend reading more on the treads here, but my own would benefit you especially. Worth mention the Hood method is quite similar to this, already tested and the same price even cheaper probably.

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

Well that certainly sounds uncomfortable and stressful, I can sympathize you seek alternatives. I'm no expert with the hoods but since the nitrogen directly flow in the mouth area and have co2 valves it is a superior setup, comfort wise at least. The best setup is arguably still scuba/scba but...

sanctioned-suicide.net

And finally my tread

Gas mask with reservoir, inert gas

I'm looking for advice for a variation of the inert gas method but using a military grade gas mask which is connected to a nitrogen filled environment instead. I haven’t seen this variation of inert gas proposed so I figured it was worthy its own thread I propose using this gas mask...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[clearheadedclarity]

Thanks Kapsyl for the excellent advice! The gas masks do seem to have a one-way exhaust port which would prevent leaking, but it does seem like it could be difficult to draw deep breaths with a setup like this. I was concerned that trying to get a full lung of nitrogen through a 1/4" hose could be difficult, since I could only inhale at whatever speed the nitrogen is entering the mask. I might be overthinking / overengineering this a bit -- just a regular exit bag may be a better choice. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Kapsyl]

Thanks Kapsyl for the excellent advice! The gas masks do seem to have a one-way exhaust port which would prevent leaking, but it does seem like it could be difficult to draw deep breaths with a setup like this. I was concerned that trying to get a full lung of nitrogen through a 1/4" hose could be difficult, since I could only inhale at whatever speed the nitrous is entering the mask. I might be overthinking / overengineering this a bit -- just a regular exit bag may be a better choice. Thanks again for all your help.

A gas mask does have exhale valve so you probably right it would prevent the inert gas from leaking. But I'm still not sure how well built it is for this continuous gas flow. Either way it would be quite turbulent inside the mask every time you don't breathe in as the gas continues to rush in, would be pretty uncomfortable and maybe noisy.

A relaxed ordinary breath of air is approximately 0.5 liters of air each breath, with a big breath going up as high as 5-6 liters. If we set the flow meter at 30/lpm divided by 60 seconds we get 0,5 liters of air each seconds. Which is how long give or take it takes to inhale a breath. So being in a calm relaxed position it would be enough with 30/lpm but I doubt one is that calm before Ctb. In reality the flow would be more closer to 40/lpm maybe to not feel suffocated, which would form quite turbulent in the mask and be noisy.

This is not factoring the resistant of the mask filter which could complicate the flow.

I thought about this method for about two weeks before coming up my final design, even now I can list some enhancement for it. So nothing wrong with overthinking it.

If you don't want explore more of your original plan I would suggest looking at the Hood alternative, is similar to this but more researched with cases of successful ctb.

 

[clearheadedclarity]

I will check out the hood alternative! Back to the fascinating world of CTB research :)

 

[.ᴍᴀʏᴜ.]

I am also in the US. You mentioned using a SCUBA or SCBA mask. Just wanted to let you know you can frequently find complete SCBAs on Ebay with both the regulators and mask for around or just under 150 USD. I bought a Scott 4.5 Air Pak SCBA off there and it works flawlessly. You can also find all the needed adapters to convert CGA-580 to CGA 347 which is what the SCBA connection is. Feel free to message me if you have questions. Just thought id give a little extra information on that kind of setup.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Me thinks this would be a good time for @GasMonkey to chime in. He hasn't been seen since Aug of 2023, but hey,who knows? I don't think he cashed it in yet. I don't remember any goodbye threads from him, either.

 

[uzuf86]

The EEBD hood guide provided above in the links is a surefire and well described way for inert gas ctb.

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[kudaphillips]

Where are you at with this OP? The gas mask has big problems with not getting a sufficient seal ( I've heard ).the eebd hood or exit bag prob better. The eebd thread provided scared me at first from the complexity, but after sleeping on it and chipping away at the research it seems straightforward . Im in process of working out the kinks , clarifying things I'm not sure of, using the same set up, if you're still around maybe we can attack it together .

 

[Kapsyl]

Where are you at with this OP? The gas mask has big problems with not getting a sufficient seal ( I've heard )

Where'd you heard that? A gas mask without a sufficient seal wouldn't do its job particularly good.

 

[kudaphillips]

Where'd you heard that? A gas mask without a sufficient seal wouldn't do its job particularly good.

Well the recent Alabama execution used a gas mask that didn't go particularly well , and pph authors said it was because of the gas mask and how they don't give a good enough seal. He talked for a while about it on recent podcast . Yes also there was lack of cooperation from the inmate .
There's a post on FEN Facebook group about this and all the admins saying gas mask isn't ideal.. I also spoke with a FEN guide on the phone ad naseum about the gas mask and how hood is superior. Just saying what I've heard doesn't mean I'm right .
Also. Heard from you. Your initial response to Op …weren't you yourself talking to problems that could arise with the seal ? Needing to shave, making sure flow rate is right , not sticking to contours of your face etc

That was dr Philips main concern I think , after you pass out your face muscles move around and seal isn't trustable

 

[Forveleth]

Do they guarantee purity of the nitrogen? Don't want to get a bunch of oxygen mixed in!

 

[kudaphillips]

Do they guarantee purity of the nitrogen? Don't want to get a bunch of oxygen mixed in!

Nitrogen is used for things like welding where there cannot be any oxygen . It should be over 99% from a gas supply/ welding store. Though there seems to be some debate on if it should be 99.99% or if just anything over 99% is sufficient . You can get a oxygen analyzer like a cy-12c and test the oxygen concentration . I myself am in process of researching /determining if 99.0% is sufficient though .

 

[Forveleth]

Nitrogen is used for things like welding where there cannot be any oxygen . It should be over 99% from a gas supply/ welding store. Though there seems to be some debate on if it should be 99.99% or if just anything over 99% is sufficient . You can get a oxygen analyzer like a cy-12c and test the oxygen concentration . I myself am in process of researching /determining if 99.0% is sufficient though .

Yes, but they said they were getting food-grade and I don't know of the srandards are the same as for welding.

 

[kudaphillips]

Yes, but they said they were getting food-grade and I don't know of the srandards are the same as for welding.

Who said this, a gas supply store ? You got to test it I wouldn't take any wines word for it .

 

[Kapsyl]

Well the recent Alabama execution used a gas mask that didn't go particularly well , and pph authors said it was because of the gas mask and how they don't give a good enough seal. He talked for a while about it on recent podcast . Yes also there was lack of cooperation from the inmate .

The Alabama execution was botched in many ways, last known picture of the inmate he was rocking a full beard. Which is not a particularly good idea, since a clean shave is required for a good seal. Maybe he shaved beforehand but there are other aspects of the execution that were neglected.

Nitschke visited the prison before they purchased the equipment so he didn't actually inspect it in person, Nitschke is known to be very negative against anything other than exit bags for inert ctb. We don't actually know exactly what kind of mask they used for the inmate.

Nitschke talks about mask in Pph but he is referring to rebreather oxygen mask used in hospitals which are not designed to provide a full air seal.

There's a post on FEN Facebook group about this and all the admins saying gas mask isn't ideal.. I also spoke with a FEN guide on the phone ad naseum about the gas mask and how hood is superior. Just saying what I've heard doesn't mean I'm right .

Without more details I can't tell exactly why they think mask are inferior. But it's likely not a problem of seal and more likely of inert delivery method, look at the original post and my comments why it doesn't work. It boils down to that a continuous flow of gas directly into the mask is not suitable and creates flaws which compromise the seal.

Scba and scuba gear look very similar to modern gas mask and they work? That's because they use a on demand delivery method and not a continuous flow of gas.

I would argue a modern gas mask designed for continuous use for many hours are better than a EEbd hood designed for emergency use for short duration of time. It's just much easier to setup a functional Eebd hood setup to inert gas, that doesn't make it better strictly design wise.

Also. Heard from you. Your initial response to Op …weren't you yourself talking to problems that could arise with the seal ? Needing to shave, making sure flow rate is right , not sticking to contours of your face etc

That was dr Philips main concern I think , after you pass out your face muscles move around and seal isn't trustable

Needing to shave is not because of faulty equipment and more user error, facial hair is quite thick and provide space between the skin and mask which air can come through. It's simply a necessity, full face scuba, scba gear also have this requirement and they seem to work perfectly well.

I stated that shaving is a good idea and some cream could be used for extra security not a requirement. I suggest reading the post again to understand the bigger picture of what I meant. Duct taping your face is hardly required for a good seal.

As I said before Nitschke is very negative to face mask and we don't know exactly what kind of mask he is referring to here that loses its seal when unconscious. Scba and scuba have very similar seals and people have successfully ctb with those.

It's actually very simple to test how air tight a gas mask is, simply hold your hand over the filter and try to breathe . You will find the mask forming onto the face because of vacuum and you will not be able to breathe. An even better test is standing inside a gas chamber with tear gas, there you will find the very quickly if the airseal is efficient enough. In my case when I tried it was, because I was clean shaven and had the mask fitted properly.

I think the negatives about gas mask is related to the deliver method rather than the seal. My method with a gas mask appears to work perfectly fine, but it's more complicated to construct then hood or exit bag.

 

[kudaphillips]

The Alabama execution was botched in many ways, last known picture of the inmate he was rocking a full beard. Which is not a particularly good idea, since a clean shave is required for a good seal. Maybe he shaved beforehand but there are other aspects of the execution that were neglected.

Nitschke visited the prison before they purchased the equipment so he didn't actually inspect it in person, Nitschke is known to be very negative against anything other than exit bags for inert ctb. We don't actually know exactly what kind of mask they used for the inmate.

Nitschke talks about mask in Pph but he is referring to rebreather oxygen mask used in hospitals which are not designed to provide a full air seal.



Without more details I can't tell exactly why they think mask are inferior. But it's likely not a problem of seal and more likely of inert delivery method, look at the original post and my comments why it doesn't work. It boils down to that a continuous flow of gas directly into the mask is not suitable and creates flaws which compromise the seal.

Scba and scuba gear look very similar to modern gas mask and they work? That's because they use a on demand delivery method and not a continuous flow of gas.

I would argue a modern gas mask designed for continuous use for many hours are better than a EEbd hood designed for emergency use for short duration of time. It's just much easier to setup a functional Eebd hood setup to inert gas, that doesn't make it better strictly design wise.




Needing to shave is not because of faulty equipment and more user error, facial hair is quite thick and provide space between the skin and mask which air can come through. It's simply a necessity, full face scuba, scba gear also have this requirement and they seem to work perfectly well.

I stated that shaving is a good idea and some cream could be used for extra security not a requirement. I suggest reading the post again to understand the bigger picture of what I meant. Duct taping your face is hardly required for a good seal.

As I said before Nitschke is very negative to face mask and we don't know exactly what kind of mask he is referring to here that loses its seal when unconscious. Scba and scuba have very similar seals and people have successfully ctb with those.

It's actually very simple to test how air tight a gas mask is, simply hold your hand over the filter and try to breathe . You will find the mask forming onto the face because of vacuum and you will not be able to breathe. An even better test is standing inside a gas chamber with tear gas, there you will find the very quickly if the airseal is efficient enough. In my case when I tried it was, because I was clean shaven and had the mask fitted properly.

I think the negatives about gas mask is related to the deliver method rather than the seal. My method with a gas mask appears to work perfectly fine, but it's more complicated to construct then hood or exit bag.

Ok. I'm certainly just learning , but I would've been remissed to not mention what I personally had heard about gas mask from nitchke ( whom I thought was credible ) and exit guides at FEN.

Now you have me questioning eebd though. Vizzys guide on Eebd should be pretty damn reliable no? I'm choosing this over exit bag for time being .

Also what do you think of the above persons question on nitrogen purity ? Vizzy saying he/she payed more for 99.999% and wouldn't do 99% has me cautious .

 

[Kapsyl]

Ok. I'm certainly just learning , but I would've been remissed to not mention what I personally had heard about gas mask from nitchke ( whom I thought was credible ) and exit guides at FEN.

Now you have me questioning eebd though. Eebd should be pretty damn reliable no?

Nitschke contribution to the knowledge about inert gas is immense, he practically made it popular and the exit bag treads are based on his work. But methods evolve, in the same podcast you stated before he doesn't appear to know about Eebd hoods. The guest ask about the hoods and he claims it another word for exit bag.

He is also developing the sacro pod which is just ridiculous expensive, telling he's own product is vastly superior then the much more efficient facemask isn't that strange. Scuba, scba gear appears to be the quickest way to lose unconsciousness by inert gas. Wouldn't be wise financially to recommend a better alternative than pouring money into his pocket.

Several member here have ctb with Eebd hoods, they work. I simply stated that they're designed for emergency use, since we only need to use it once and not hundred of times they work fine.

 

[kudaphillips]

Nitschke contribution to the knowledge about inert gas is immense, he practically made it popular and the exit bag treads are based on his work. But methods evolve, in the same podcast you stated before he doesn't appear to know about Eebd hoods. The guest ask about the hoods and he claims it another word for exit bag.

He is also developing the sacro pod which is just ridiculous expensive, telling he's own product is vastly superior then the much more efficient facemask isn't that strange. Scuba, scba gear appears to be the quickest way to lose unconsciousness by inert gas. Wouldn't be wise financially to recommend a better alternative than pouring money into his pocket.

Several member here have ctb with Eebd hoods, they work. I simply stated that they're designed for emergency use, since we only need to use it once and not hundred of times they work fine.

Got it. And ya that's true , since most of my knowledge comes from pph and nitchkee I wasn't aware of hoods till this site either , and I thought they were same as bag..
also on your face mask thread it seems there was some discussion on some hoods not being able to purge cO2 effectively, causing issues, though I wonder if bags have that same issue . I suppose higher LPM would at least help alleviate that possibility .

 

[kudaphillips]

Nitschke contribution to the knowledge about inert gas is immense, he practically made it popular and the exit bag treads are based on his work. But methods evolve, in the same podcast you stated before he doesn't appear to know about Eebd hoods. The guest ask about the hoods and he claims it another word for exit bag.

He is also developing the sacro pod which is just ridiculous expensive, telling he's own product is vastly superior then the much more efficient facemask isn't that strange. Scuba, scba gear appears to be the quickest way to lose unconsciousness by inert gas. Wouldn't be wise financially to recommend a better alternative than pouring money into his pocket.

Several member here have ctb with Eebd hoods, they work. I simply stated that they're designed for emergency use, since we only need to use it once and not hundred of times they work fine.

I might just do exit bag in next couple days, can't hold out for the eebd stuff to come I don't think , I asked about my regulators in some other threads but got no responses , all the gurus are gone I guess. You seem to be knowledgeable though.
I bought a regulator from max dog a while back. Looking closer , it doesn't appear to be max dog and says oxygen only. It does however have a click flow meter up to 15 . Pictured

Would you use this ? Or a cheap argon regulator like the one pictured
The SUMO argon regulator used in the eebd guide thread i can't find unless I speak other languages
OR.. would you recommend buying a completely different one. Money isn't a concern
eter up to 25

 

[Forveleth]

Who said this, a gas supply store ? You got to test it I wouldn't take any wines word for it .

OP said they were getting a 40 cu food grade nitrogen tank.

 

[Kapsyl]

Also what do you think of the above persons question on nitrogen purity ? Vizzy saying he/she payed more for 99.999% and wouldn't do 99% has me cautious .

Pph has suggested a lower limit of purity of 97% but higher purity would theoretically speed up the process. Some users here have advocated loudly the importance of absolute 99.9999999% purity, but I fail to see how 99% versus 99.9999% would sustain life in a meaningful way. It could potentially lower the time until unconsciousness but the difference would probably be negligible, my setup is 99.8% and I'm happy with it.

Something we do know is even if the setup is contaminated with oxygen, as long it's under 5% the cells still die. It just takes longer. There is that case of a woman taking 37 min until cessation of breathing because of a bad fitting mask, the others in the study took average 3 min for the same. She eventually still ctb, but because of the compromised seal it took a lot longer.

Having a large supply of inert gas can remedy a not perfect inert atmosphere.

Got it. And ya that's true , since most of my knowledge comes from pph and nitchkee I wasn't aware of hoods till this site either , and I thought they were same as bag..
also on your face mask thread it seems there was some discussion on some hoods not being able to purge cO2 effectively, causing issues, though I wonder if bags have that same issue . I suppose higher LPM would at least help alleviate that possibility .

Apparently some Draeger hood models lacked the co2 exhale, it will be apparent when you receive your model. Some have been experiencing problem with co2 build up within the bag, possibly because low gas flow. Exit bag is the cheaper option and doesn't have the benefit of more high end options with co2 valves, but it's reliable.

I might just do exit bag in next couple days, can't hold out for the eebd stuff to come I don't think , I asked about my regulators in some other threads but got no responses , all the gurus are gone I guess. You seem to be knowledgeable though.
I bought a regulator from max dog a while back. Looking closer , it doesn't appear to be max dog and says oxygen only. It does however have a click flow meter up to 15 . Pictured

Would you use this ? Or a cheap argon regulator like the one pictured
The SUMO argon regulator used in the eebd guide thread i can't find unless I speak other languages
OR.. would you recommend buying a completely different one. Money isn't a concern

I would definitely choose a flowmeter which can output a higher lpm, 15 could not be enough for hood or exit bag. The one you suggested looks adequate, but surely there are more quialty ones to buy?

 

[kudaphillips]

Pph has suggested a lower limit of purity of 97% but higher purity would theoretically speed up the process. Some users here have advocated loudly the importance of absolute 99.9999999% purity, but I fail to see how 99% versus 99.9999% would sustain life in a meaningful way. It could potentially lower the time until unconsciousness but the difference would probably be negligible, my setup is 99.8% and I'm happy with it.

Something we do know is even if the setup is contaminated with oxygen, as long it's under 5% the cells still die. It just takes longer. There is that case of a woman taking 37 min until cessation of breathing because of a bad fitting mask, the others in the study took average 3 min for the same. She eventually still ctb, but because of the compromised seal it took a lot longer.

Having a large supply of inert gas can remedy a not perfect inert atmosphere.

View attachment 137480




Apparently some Draeger hood models lacked the co2 exhale, it will be apparent when you receive your model. Some have been experiencing problem with co2 build up within the bag, possibly because low gas flow. Exit bag is the cheaper option and doesn't have the benefit of more high end options with co2 valves, but it's reliable.



I would definitely choose a flowmeter which can output a higher lpm, 15 could not be enough for hood or exit bag. The one you suggested looks adequate, but surely there are more quialty ones to buy?

Thank you for this kapsyl.
I guess I'll go with the argon ones but the cheapness (23$ usd) just frightens me. Unless you had a particular one in mind that you know of.

I've been studying scuba also, and might go this route or at least buy the setup and see how it feels and what route I'm most comfortable with . But I do not understand how the regulator stays in th mouth. I've scuba a lot in my life and I always have to consciously bite down or the regulators fall out. But I don't see any concern over this so maybe the full face masks alleviate this issue .