Discussion "If you actually didn't like life, you would have already killed yourself"

[downfall13]

Earlier today I made a post on a different public forum expressing the opinion that for too many people life is overall a negative experience. That there can't possibly be any harm in having never existed, but existence guarantees that you will face suffering, while there's no guarantee that you will ever be happy/satisfied with your life. And thus we shouldn't create new lives. Something like this, a basic antinatalism argument.

I've gotten a ton of pushback and mostly people were just telling me to kill myself or saying that I'm wrong, because If I were right, I would have already killed myself. (Mind you, I didn't even mention suicide in my original post, what kind-hearted people those life-advocates areXD). So yeah, for some reason they all seemed to suggest that I couldn't possibly feel that way about life, because I'm yet to end mine. They talked about cbt as if it was something very easy and trivial.

I said that the will to survive is one of the most powerful fundamental forces instilled in humans, and that it's not easy to overcome(I thought it was obvious, though?). It didn't convince anyone.

So here I'm wondering what does SS think about it? Can't I dislike life, recognize suicide as my best possible solution, but still not be ready to do it yet? For me personally, life hasn't driven me to go through with the plan yet. It's bad, but not bad enough for me to have enough motivation to hang myself. If I could simply choose not to wake up tomorrow, I00% would do it, but hanging? That's much more complicated. Does it make me a hypocrite? Idk.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

what's holding me up is that they made all guaranteed suicide methods crimes. so i have to risk brain damage to kill myself.

they made all guaranteed painless suicide methods into crimes. so they made this world a prison. for example they made anyone helping you with suicide a crime. so you can't pay someone to help you or shoot you because they would put that person in prison for a long time.

everyone should have the right to be able to move away from suffering in a painless, guaranteed , quick , easy way. and we did have that right until they passed all these laws to make these kinds of methods crimes.

 

[human909]

The only thing that is keeping me from ctbing is that i have to find the perfect time to do it, i would have done it already but my curtain broke with rope i hang up.

 

[downfall13]

what's holding me up is that they made all guaranteed suicide methods crimes. so i have to risk brain damage to kill myself.

they made all guaranteed painless suicide methods into crimes. so they made this world a prison. for example they made anyone helping you with suicide a crime. so you can't pay someone to help you or shoot you because they would put that person in prison for a long time.

Agreed. They treat suicidal people like clinicaly insane children who don't know what's good for them.

The only thing that is keeping me from ctbing is that i have to find the perfect time to do it, i would have done it already but my curtain broke with rope i hang up.

That's sad(
In my case I don't even know any secluded places with suitable anchor points, so I'd have to first find one and go there

The only thing that is keeping me from ctbing is that i have to find the perfect time to do it, i would have done it already but my curtain broke with rope i hang up.

That's sad(
In my case I don't even know any secluded places with suitable anchor points, so I'd have to first find one and go there

 

[ijustwishtodie]

The people who oppose antinatalism by saying that bullshit tripe are honestly so annoying. I remember seeing a post on the antinatalism subreddit a few days ago about euthanasia and there were so many annoying responses from people there saying "why don't you just kill yourself then". On that same thread, there was a sadistic evil person who was okay with people dying via risky and extremely painful methods like hanging or jumping but vehemently oppose people dying peacefully with N or the sacro pod. I loathe these people so much. Also, no, you hating life and still being alive doesn't make you a hypocrite. Suicide is the most difficult act that a human being can do, it isn't easy at all. The people who oppose suicide don't even seem to believe that SI is real since the media censors facts like that in order to push their anti suicide narrative even better

 

[Forever Sleep]

I just think these sorts of people have never actually contemplated suicide in a practical way. It's incredibly risky. Just because we're suicidal, doesn't mean we're stupid or incapable of calculating risk! Or, the probability of success or failure with the options available to us.

To suggest an example back to them: Surely, most people's lives would improve if they had more money. So- why don't they play the lottery? The chances of them winning increase when they buy more tickets. So- why don't they sink all their savings into next weeks draw? Because they're not dumb! That's why. Because they know their chances of winning are small and they loose everything if their numbers don't come up.

Now- ask them to bet their health as well. Tell them- if they loose, they loose a limb, become crippled, endure permanent organ damage. Spend time in a psyche ward. Alter their relationship with their loved ones. Maybe loose their job. How willing are they now to 'bet' on their desired outcome? Probably not at all because they'd see that as foolish.

I just think they get annoyed in part because they want to see suicide as the action of someone who's desperate, impulsive and, not thinking clearly. I suspect they like to view the suicidal person as emotionally and mentally unbalanced because it differenciates us from them.

 

[downfall13]

The people who oppose antinatalism by saying that bullshit tripe are honestly so annoying. I remember seeing a post on the antinatalism subreddit a few days ago about euthanasia and there were so many annoying responses from people there saying "why don't you just kill yourself then". On that same thread, there was a sadistic evil person who was okay with people dying via risky and extremely painful methods like hanging or jumping but vehemently oppose people dying peacefully with N or the sacro pod. I loathe these people so much. Also, no, you hating life and still being alive doesn't make you a hypocrite. Suicide is the most difficult act that a human being can do, it isn't easy at all. The people who oppose suicide don't even seem to believe that SI is real since the media censors facts like that in order to push their anti suicide narrative even better

You get it

I just think these sorts of people have never actually contemplated suicide in a practical way. It's incredibly risky. Just because we're suicidal, doesn't mean we're stupid or incapable of calculating risk! Or, the probability of success or failure with the options available to us.

To suggest an example back to them: Surely, most people's lives would improve if they had more money. So- why don't they play the lottery? The chances of them winning increase when they buy more tickets. So- why don't they sink all their savings into next weeks draw? Because they're not dumb! That's why. Because they know their chances of winning are small and they loose everything if their numbers don't come up.

Now- ask them to bet their health as well. Tell them- if they loose, they loose a limb, become crippled, endure permanent organ damage. Spend time in a psyche ward. Alter their relationship with their loved ones. Maybe loose their job. How willing are they now to 'bet' on their desired outcome? Probably not at all because they'd see that as foolish.

I just think they get annoyed in part because they want to see suicide as the action of someone who's desperate, impulsive and, not thinking clearly. I suspect they like to view the suicidal person as emotionally and mentally unbalanced because it differenciates us from them.

I think you are right that most of those people haven't ever contemplated suicide in a practical way. I'd add that they've probably never been suicidal either.

Attempted suicide is a huge step that could either grant you eternal peace or completely ruin whatever life you've led up to that moment.

 

[outrider567]

Earlier today I made a post on a different public forum expressing the opinion that for too many people life is overall a negative experience. That there can't possibly be any harm in having never existed, but existence guarantees that you will face suffering, while there's no guarantee that you will ever be happy/satisfied with your life. And thus we shouldn't create new lives. Something like this, a basic antinatalism argument.

I've gotten a ton of pushback and mostly people were just telling me to kill myself or saying that I'm wrong, because If I were right, I would have already killed myself. (Mind you, I didn't even mention suicide in my original post, what kind-hearted people those life-advocates areXD). So yeah, for some reason they all seemed to suggest that I couldn't possibly feel that way about life, because I'm yet to end mine. They talked about cbt as if it was something very easy and trivial.

I said that the will to survive is one of the most powerful fundamental forces instilled in humans, and that it's not easy to overcome(I thought it was obvious, though?). It didn't convince anyone.

So here I'm wondering what does SS think about it? Can't I dislike life, recognize suicide as my best possible solution, but still not be ready to do it yet? For me personally, life hasn't driven me to go through with the plan yet. It's bad, but not bad enough for me to have enough motivation to hang myself. If I could simply choose not to wake up tomorrow, I00% would do it, but hanging? That's much more complicated. Does it make me a hypocrite? Idk.

The will to survive is not powerful at all when your longtime loved one dies, drops by 99%

 

[L'absent]

What you wrote completely resonates with me. Life is not a gift or something positive. The truth is, a person is born, grows up, and then suffers for a variety of reasons, both physical and psychological, until death. There's no guarantee of happiness, only a long list of problems, diseases, accidents, and suffering. No one was asked to be born, and not everyone desires this life. So yes, it's fair to say that life, as it is, sucks. The fact that there are people who try to mask this reality with pro-life rhetoric doesn't change the fact that suffering is a constant. Society makes us believe that we must love life, but when we look at it without filters, we realize that in reality, it's just a cycle of senseless suffering.

I believe many of the people who reacted with attacks, wishing you suicide, are simply projecting their own fears and anxieties. In fact, I think the reason why these people talk so openly about suicide is because of their fear of confronting their own suicidal thoughts. It's as if, not having the strength to look inside themselves, they try to project their fear onto others. Probably many of them have repressed suicidal ideation, precisely because of the pro-life culture that teaches us to reject such thoughts. There are two types of people in the world: those who live with open suicidal thoughts, and those who repress them, but are still affected by the culture that denies and diminishes these thoughts.

 

[divinemistress36]

The survival instinct is so strong . You can hate life but your body wants to survive at all costs. I cant remember the statistics but I think in the USA only like 40,000 or so (that are reported) succeed in ctb with a million or so suicide attempts.

 

[Richard Langford]

For many (and me) I ptrsume its the practicalities of it that are difficult. A peaceful, painless, non-violent method. That's ideally opiates for me. As an average guy with no experience of that genre (or indeed knows anyone who does) thats difficult.

 

[ShatteredShards]

I'm sure there's a few factors on both sides that prolong the whole debate, but I won't go into that. All I can say is that the methods of 'quick' and 'painless' suicides are limited and prevented many in different ways. Hell, if I had the ability to get SN, I'd jump off a building soon after consumption. Duel effective methods are pretty much 100%.

 

[J&L383]

You get it

I think you are right that most of those people haven't ever contemplated suicide in a practical way. I'd add that they've probably never been suicidal either.

Attempted suicide is a huge step that could either grant you eternal peace or completely ruin whatever life you've led up to that moment.

Yes, once you dispense with the intellectual analysis, the practical realities are a whole other matter. The social backlash, the logistics, the potential results could be devastating and make life even worse than it was before. Plus, as Opie said, there's an inherent built-in will to love that pushes back. To counteract that, there must be a greater force that propels you past that breaking point. Unbearable physical or mental suffering that is unrelenting and unlikely to change.

 

[Kanashii]

I just think these sorts of people have never actually contemplated suicide in a practical way. It's incredibly risky. Just because we're suicidal, doesn't mean we're stupid or incapable of calculating risk! Or, the probability of success or failure with the options available to us.

To suggest an example back to them: Surely, most people's lives would improve if they had more money. So- why don't they play the lottery? The chances of them winning increase when they buy more tickets. So- why don't they sink all their savings into next weeks draw? Because they're not dumb! That's why. Because they know their chances of winning are small and they loose everything if their numbers don't come up.

Now- ask them to bet their health as well. Tell them- if they loose, they loose a limb, become crippled, endure permanent organ damage. Spend time in a psyche ward. Alter their relationship with their loved ones. Maybe loose their job. How willing are they now to 'bet' on their desired outcome? Probably not at all because they'd see that as foolish.

I just think they get annoyed in part because they want to see suicide as the action of someone who's desperate, impulsive and, not thinking clearly. I suspect they like to view the suicidal person as emotionally and mentally unbalanced because it differenciates us from them.

What people don't realise as well is that not all suicidal people "look suicidal" if that makes sense.

You don't have to be depressed or look depressed, never be happy to be suicidal. How the media portrays suicidal people is that we're all mentally ill and should be locked away for good to prevent us from ever having the opportunity to loll ourselves or to "get help" and have "therapy".
Therapy doesn't work and people don't always help the situation, especially health professionals. Some aren't professional at all and you can tell that they're judging you sometimes.

Also there is the fact of yes, what if you do survive your CTB attempt? What if you do lose a limb or lose all the people around you if you do have them. There's so many things which can stop us, and that's why we have to think and some times those things... they do stop us.
As much as we don't want them to, circumstances don't always work out in our favour. Media will always view suicidal people as mentally unbalanced maniacs for the rest of time, but the truth is they just don't know what it's like, don't know someone who is suicidal, or just simply don't know what the fuck they're on about. Media always puts people down and will continue to. If it's not us, it's another group of people that media likes to portray as bad.

It's a vicious cycle that will never end. People just don't think and assume things which aren't true whatsoever.