fightingsioux
Specialist
- Oct 22, 2019
- 357
I've stopped posting on this forum for various reasons--including some personal moral and ethical concerns, and the frustration with so many posters who refuse to do the most basic level of research into methods, even so far as bothering to read the relevant mega-threads on this site from the beginning! Instead we have the same questions asked over and over and over and....sometimes answered correctly, often not.
(Many posters here no longer remember Stan, a prolific, compassionate and knowledgeable poster especially about SN. The continued repetition of questions already asked and answered multiple times became a running joke on the SN thread.)
There's also a lot of nonsense and misinformation here about gases,regulators,fittings and hoses, how to connect and use them properly, and the entire process. People who've never even seen or touched a gas cylinder or a regulator--much less actually used one--keep weighing in as experts based on a few minutes of Googling. We all know that this phenomenon is an internet-wide, global plague that spreads misinformation and blurs the distinction between factual truths and falsehoods. But that's today's world.
I've gotten so many PM's with various gas cylinder (also called a tank) and regulator questions that I'm going to try and answer most of them here.
First, I've never, in over 50 years of welding, purchased a gas cylinder from a reputable dealer and NOT had the cylinder be full/fully pressurized with the correct gas. It just doesn't happen. The sale of inert gases for self-deliverance is a tiny fraction of 1% of the market. These shops sell to professional welders often working for multi-million dollar companies, they'd be out of business in a week if their tanks were not fully filled with the correct gas. It's totally unnecessary to worry about or waste your time trying to test for purity: the gas is of the purity stated. Industrial, medical or food grade are all typically going to be over 98% pure, most at 99.8% (absolute purity is virtually impossible to attain outside of a research lab). If you're not sure, just phone or email the company and ask. They'll tell you, they won't ask you why you want to know, you won't be arrested or committed. Actually, anything over 95% will do the trick just fine.
Which gas to use? Let me make this quick and simple: for the purpose of the posters here, it doesn't matter a damn! There's about 2 million species (distinct groups) of living things on Earth. From unicellular, microscopic amoebas to whales and elephants, from algae to redwoods: that's a trillion trillion individuals. None of them, not a one, can live in an atmosphere of inert gas. Zero, nada, zilch.This includes you and your Uncle Bob.
For actual welding, it matters. For example, if you're working with aluminum you'd use argon. But for self-deliverance, argon or hydrogen will work exactly the same. (Pure helium from a welding gas supplier also works fine, but because most balloon-inflation tanks are now only 80% pure, I don't like to mention it for fear of confusing someone.) I probably read as much uninformed crap about this subject as anything else: molecular density, the Earth's atmosphere, what have you. Let me repeat: argon, helium, or nitrogen at sufficient purity will all accomplish your purpose! I'd suggest going with nitrogen just because it's so widely available and has many non-welding, non-suicide uses (beer brewing, food preservation, other things). You won't attract any attention buying it. (I'm not going to get into my whole shpiel about what to say to the clerk at the parts desk, PM me if you really need to know.)
If you procure the correct equipment and assemble it correctly (more about that later) there is no reason in the world to keep experimenting. Once is one too many times, IMO, but if you must then quickly inflate the bag for 10 or 15 seconds and then shut it off, you're wasting gas. With this in mind, a 20 CF (cubic foot) tank is plenty. Plenty. If you're a real nervous Nellie worrywart go ahead and spend the extra money and get a 40 CF, but you really don't need it (more about this later, how long the whole thing will take and therefor how much gas you'll need.) I'm not going to get into any U.S. to European measurement conversions here: hundreds of free converters available on the net, liters to cubic feet, etc. To sum it up: don't torture yourself worrying about cylinder size: 20 CF will do the job.
Pressure,aperture (nozzle) size, and flow are the three main factors when working with any inert gas. I'll get into a simplified discussion of that in a minute. But for now, still talking about the gas cylinder, once again, don't worry about the pressure! The tank you buy from any reputable company will be fully pressurized. Depending on the size of the tank and the type of gas, the internal pressure and the pressure at which the gas is released from the tank's top valve will be slightly different, but it doesn't matter to you! You're not learning how to be a professional welder or running a NASA experiment. Once again, this is where the Googlers differ from the real world. Just buy a 20 or a 40 (that's the terminology welders use) of industrial grade nitrogen and you're good to go.
Let's move on from the gas and the cylinder to a very simple mechanical piece of equipment that seems to freak out many folks: the dreaded regulator.
If a small plastic bag like the Exit Bag were attached directly to a high pressure cylinder, the force of the discharge would blow the bag to shreds in an instant. So you need something to adjust/modulate/control/regulate the delivery pressure. A regulator. It simply lessens the powerful pressure from the tank so a welder can finely control his torch flame or you can fill your turkey roasting bag.
The Max Dog regulator is fine. There are many other regulators available at stores or online. It doesn't matter if the regulator is being sold as an argon/oxygen regulator or a nitrogen regulator or what gas you're using. For your purpose, any combination will work. The female threaded output fitting on any and all cylinders will fit the male threaded input fitting on any and all regulators. In other words, as long as you hold the two pieces fairly level with each other and slowly and carefully thread them together, you'll have a solid, leak-proof connection. Not merely hand-tight, not merely snug, but tight. Wrench (spanner) tight. Not over-tight (beads of sweat on your forehead as you lean into the wrench with all you've got.) No. Just nice and tight.
The force--or the rate at which the gas exits the output fitting of the regulator--is called the flow rate.
What you do need is a regulator that has a flow gauge (also called a flow meter, basically the same thing). As I mentioned previously, there is an intrinsic relationship between pressure, aperture (nozzle) size, and flow. As with any mathematical formula, if you know any two quantities you can calculate the third. But since most welders don't have the time for that, most regulators come with a gauge that is marked with a liters-per-minute (LPM) scale. This gauge can be tubular or round, makes no difference, it's measuring the same simple process.This gauge allows you to measure and control the amount of gas that flows from the regulator, through the hose or tubing, and into the Exit Bag.
Here again, there's a lot of misinformation out there. In the real world, you only need somewhere in a general range, not a specific number. For any gas, a range of 15 - 19 LPM will work for your purpose. If you're using nitrogen with a regulator marker argon/oxygen, just go for a flow in the higher range, 18 - 19. You're not welding steel plates in a shipyard or inflating the Goodyear Blimp, anywhere in the 15 - 19 LPM range will inflate a turkey roasting bag and keep it inflated for a few minutes.
Again, your regulator might use a vertical, glass-tube measuring device or a circular gauge. Makes no difference, they do the same thing. Most will be clearly marked with a LPM scale. If you see something else, just use one of the many online conversion tables available to convert it to LPM.
Here's a link to an inexpensive but sturdy regulator sold by Harbor Freight, a nationwide tool supplier in the U.S. I'm sure that there are many similar tool suppliers with many similar regulators in Europe:
https://www.harborfreight.com/co2argon-flow-gauge-regulator-63787.html?_br_psugg_q=welding+regulator
If necessary, don't be hesitant to call or email the manufacturer of the regulator, tell them you're a beginner, would they explain the fittings or the gauges to you. They'll be glad to, they won't ask you what you're using it for, you won't be arrested or committed. You can also PM me.
Now you need to connect your hose or your clear tubing to the regulator.
You have two options: some regulators come with a rather heavy-duty hose that has a male threaded fitting on one end that threads into the female threaded output fitting on the regulator. Or you can buy one of these online or in stores.The slight downside to this set-up is the actual heaviness and inflexibility of the hose: strong and durable for industrial welding but not really necessary for your application. Almost impossible to tape inside the Exit Bag. If using it, you have to tape it directly to your neck and/or forehead. This will work, since once the bag is pulled over your head and secured with an elastic drawcord the gas is going into exactly the same place--filling the bag.
Your other choice is a very cheap part called a hose barb. This can be purchased at any big box or hardware store or online, $2 at most. Here's what a typical one looks like:
This screws into the output fitting on the regulator. Then 6' or so of clear plastic tubing is pushed onto the end of the barb.
One note: one person who contacted me had an older, undiluted tank of helium meant for balloon inflation. A regulator is not needed for this. However, the balloon inflator valve must be modified. This is such a rare occurrence these days that I'm not going to describe it here, PM me. Remember: Balloon Time helium is not usable for self-deliverance.
Next comes the Exit Bag itself, the construction of which I'm not going to describe since it already exists in the research section of this site, the PPH, and numerous YouTube videos. It's as easy as can be, do not try to improve it because you're smarter and more clever than the many thousands that have used it successfully. Just buy the few dollars-worth of supplies, spend 15 minutes carefully following the simple instructions, voila, you have an Exit Bag.
I'm also not going to go into excruciating detail on every single step in using the entire method, again because it's well-described by TiredHorse in the mega-thread, in the PPH with diagrams, and other internet and print sources. Do some research, it's easily found.
Very briefly:
Sit down in a chair with arms or on a sofa (couch) or lay on your bed with your back against the headboard or wall or just sit on the floor with your back against the wall. It doesn't matter. Just realize that when you pass out you're going to slump down, and you don't want any hoses or tubes to pull loose. Some people tape or tie the gas cylinder to the leg of the chair or some other solid object so it doesn't get knocked over. Use your imagination and your common sense, there is no one right way.
Make sure that the regulator output knob is closed. Open the gas tank valve all the way. The gas will fill (pressurize) the regulator.
Follow the well-documented procedure for using the Exit Bag: put it on your head with the elastic drawcord around your temples and forehead. Scrunch it down, getting rid of the air. Turn on the regulator and adjust the flow to 15-19 LPM. The bag will inflate. Breathe out as much as you can, pull the bag down over your whole head so the elastic drawcord is snug, not airtight, around your neck. Take a deep breath, then breath naturally. The lighter inert gas will keep the bag filled while the heavier CO2 escapes out the bottom. Your body has no instinctive, evolution-based, involuntary reaction--survival instinct--about breathing inert gases as it does for CO2. Your brain and nervous system don't know the difference. With 3 or 4 or 5 breaths (no, no one can tell you precisely how many)--or about 15 to 30 seconds--you'll painlessly become unconscious. In a few minutes (no, no one can tell you precisely how many) you will die.
When I see people saying that they survived this method or that this method doesn't work, I know for sure that it didn't work because they did something wrong. Reread my little paragraph about all living things on Earth.
People who say that this method is unproven are even more uninformed. It's been used successfully world-wide countless times for many decades.
If the correct materials are gathered; if they're assembled correctly; if the simple final procedures are followed meticulously then this method is 100% effective.
That's not to say it's for everyone. If you can't obtain the materials, then obviously it's not for you. If you don't like the idea of a gas-filled bag over your head, then it's not for you. I can respect that.
You've got to go with the flow. I hate heights, in a million years I'd never be able to jump off a high place, so why in the world would I choose that method? Someone else might be afraid of firearms or deep water; so why would they ever choose a gun or drowning? This whole experience is stressful enough, don't add to it.
I'll be glad to answer any friendly and polite PM's about this subject or Pegasos.
(Many posters here no longer remember Stan, a prolific, compassionate and knowledgeable poster especially about SN. The continued repetition of questions already asked and answered multiple times became a running joke on the SN thread.)
There's also a lot of nonsense and misinformation here about gases,regulators,fittings and hoses, how to connect and use them properly, and the entire process. People who've never even seen or touched a gas cylinder or a regulator--much less actually used one--keep weighing in as experts based on a few minutes of Googling. We all know that this phenomenon is an internet-wide, global plague that spreads misinformation and blurs the distinction between factual truths and falsehoods. But that's today's world.
I've gotten so many PM's with various gas cylinder (also called a tank) and regulator questions that I'm going to try and answer most of them here.
First, I've never, in over 50 years of welding, purchased a gas cylinder from a reputable dealer and NOT had the cylinder be full/fully pressurized with the correct gas. It just doesn't happen. The sale of inert gases for self-deliverance is a tiny fraction of 1% of the market. These shops sell to professional welders often working for multi-million dollar companies, they'd be out of business in a week if their tanks were not fully filled with the correct gas. It's totally unnecessary to worry about or waste your time trying to test for purity: the gas is of the purity stated. Industrial, medical or food grade are all typically going to be over 98% pure, most at 99.8% (absolute purity is virtually impossible to attain outside of a research lab). If you're not sure, just phone or email the company and ask. They'll tell you, they won't ask you why you want to know, you won't be arrested or committed. Actually, anything over 95% will do the trick just fine.
Which gas to use? Let me make this quick and simple: for the purpose of the posters here, it doesn't matter a damn! There's about 2 million species (distinct groups) of living things on Earth. From unicellular, microscopic amoebas to whales and elephants, from algae to redwoods: that's a trillion trillion individuals. None of them, not a one, can live in an atmosphere of inert gas. Zero, nada, zilch.This includes you and your Uncle Bob.
For actual welding, it matters. For example, if you're working with aluminum you'd use argon. But for self-deliverance, argon or hydrogen will work exactly the same. (Pure helium from a welding gas supplier also works fine, but because most balloon-inflation tanks are now only 80% pure, I don't like to mention it for fear of confusing someone.) I probably read as much uninformed crap about this subject as anything else: molecular density, the Earth's atmosphere, what have you. Let me repeat: argon, helium, or nitrogen at sufficient purity will all accomplish your purpose! I'd suggest going with nitrogen just because it's so widely available and has many non-welding, non-suicide uses (beer brewing, food preservation, other things). You won't attract any attention buying it. (I'm not going to get into my whole shpiel about what to say to the clerk at the parts desk, PM me if you really need to know.)
If you procure the correct equipment and assemble it correctly (more about that later) there is no reason in the world to keep experimenting. Once is one too many times, IMO, but if you must then quickly inflate the bag for 10 or 15 seconds and then shut it off, you're wasting gas. With this in mind, a 20 CF (cubic foot) tank is plenty. Plenty. If you're a real nervous Nellie worrywart go ahead and spend the extra money and get a 40 CF, but you really don't need it (more about this later, how long the whole thing will take and therefor how much gas you'll need.) I'm not going to get into any U.S. to European measurement conversions here: hundreds of free converters available on the net, liters to cubic feet, etc. To sum it up: don't torture yourself worrying about cylinder size: 20 CF will do the job.
Pressure,aperture (nozzle) size, and flow are the three main factors when working with any inert gas. I'll get into a simplified discussion of that in a minute. But for now, still talking about the gas cylinder, once again, don't worry about the pressure! The tank you buy from any reputable company will be fully pressurized. Depending on the size of the tank and the type of gas, the internal pressure and the pressure at which the gas is released from the tank's top valve will be slightly different, but it doesn't matter to you! You're not learning how to be a professional welder or running a NASA experiment. Once again, this is where the Googlers differ from the real world. Just buy a 20 or a 40 (that's the terminology welders use) of industrial grade nitrogen and you're good to go.
Let's move on from the gas and the cylinder to a very simple mechanical piece of equipment that seems to freak out many folks: the dreaded regulator.
If a small plastic bag like the Exit Bag were attached directly to a high pressure cylinder, the force of the discharge would blow the bag to shreds in an instant. So you need something to adjust/modulate/control/regulate the delivery pressure. A regulator. It simply lessens the powerful pressure from the tank so a welder can finely control his torch flame or you can fill your turkey roasting bag.
The Max Dog regulator is fine. There are many other regulators available at stores or online. It doesn't matter if the regulator is being sold as an argon/oxygen regulator or a nitrogen regulator or what gas you're using. For your purpose, any combination will work. The female threaded output fitting on any and all cylinders will fit the male threaded input fitting on any and all regulators. In other words, as long as you hold the two pieces fairly level with each other and slowly and carefully thread them together, you'll have a solid, leak-proof connection. Not merely hand-tight, not merely snug, but tight. Wrench (spanner) tight. Not over-tight (beads of sweat on your forehead as you lean into the wrench with all you've got.) No. Just nice and tight.
The force--or the rate at which the gas exits the output fitting of the regulator--is called the flow rate.
What you do need is a regulator that has a flow gauge (also called a flow meter, basically the same thing). As I mentioned previously, there is an intrinsic relationship between pressure, aperture (nozzle) size, and flow. As with any mathematical formula, if you know any two quantities you can calculate the third. But since most welders don't have the time for that, most regulators come with a gauge that is marked with a liters-per-minute (LPM) scale. This gauge can be tubular or round, makes no difference, it's measuring the same simple process.This gauge allows you to measure and control the amount of gas that flows from the regulator, through the hose or tubing, and into the Exit Bag.
Here again, there's a lot of misinformation out there. In the real world, you only need somewhere in a general range, not a specific number. For any gas, a range of 15 - 19 LPM will work for your purpose. If you're using nitrogen with a regulator marker argon/oxygen, just go for a flow in the higher range, 18 - 19. You're not welding steel plates in a shipyard or inflating the Goodyear Blimp, anywhere in the 15 - 19 LPM range will inflate a turkey roasting bag and keep it inflated for a few minutes.
Again, your regulator might use a vertical, glass-tube measuring device or a circular gauge. Makes no difference, they do the same thing. Most will be clearly marked with a LPM scale. If you see something else, just use one of the many online conversion tables available to convert it to LPM.
Here's a link to an inexpensive but sturdy regulator sold by Harbor Freight, a nationwide tool supplier in the U.S. I'm sure that there are many similar tool suppliers with many similar regulators in Europe:
https://www.harborfreight.com/co2argon-flow-gauge-regulator-63787.html?_br_psugg_q=welding+regulator
If necessary, don't be hesitant to call or email the manufacturer of the regulator, tell them you're a beginner, would they explain the fittings or the gauges to you. They'll be glad to, they won't ask you what you're using it for, you won't be arrested or committed. You can also PM me.
Now you need to connect your hose or your clear tubing to the regulator.
You have two options: some regulators come with a rather heavy-duty hose that has a male threaded fitting on one end that threads into the female threaded output fitting on the regulator. Or you can buy one of these online or in stores.The slight downside to this set-up is the actual heaviness and inflexibility of the hose: strong and durable for industrial welding but not really necessary for your application. Almost impossible to tape inside the Exit Bag. If using it, you have to tape it directly to your neck and/or forehead. This will work, since once the bag is pulled over your head and secured with an elastic drawcord the gas is going into exactly the same place--filling the bag.
Your other choice is a very cheap part called a hose barb. This can be purchased at any big box or hardware store or online, $2 at most. Here's what a typical one looks like:
This screws into the output fitting on the regulator. Then 6' or so of clear plastic tubing is pushed onto the end of the barb.
One note: one person who contacted me had an older, undiluted tank of helium meant for balloon inflation. A regulator is not needed for this. However, the balloon inflator valve must be modified. This is such a rare occurrence these days that I'm not going to describe it here, PM me. Remember: Balloon Time helium is not usable for self-deliverance.
Next comes the Exit Bag itself, the construction of which I'm not going to describe since it already exists in the research section of this site, the PPH, and numerous YouTube videos. It's as easy as can be, do not try to improve it because you're smarter and more clever than the many thousands that have used it successfully. Just buy the few dollars-worth of supplies, spend 15 minutes carefully following the simple instructions, voila, you have an Exit Bag.
I'm also not going to go into excruciating detail on every single step in using the entire method, again because it's well-described by TiredHorse in the mega-thread, in the PPH with diagrams, and other internet and print sources. Do some research, it's easily found.
Very briefly:
Sit down in a chair with arms or on a sofa (couch) or lay on your bed with your back against the headboard or wall or just sit on the floor with your back against the wall. It doesn't matter. Just realize that when you pass out you're going to slump down, and you don't want any hoses or tubes to pull loose. Some people tape or tie the gas cylinder to the leg of the chair or some other solid object so it doesn't get knocked over. Use your imagination and your common sense, there is no one right way.
Make sure that the regulator output knob is closed. Open the gas tank valve all the way. The gas will fill (pressurize) the regulator.
Follow the well-documented procedure for using the Exit Bag: put it on your head with the elastic drawcord around your temples and forehead. Scrunch it down, getting rid of the air. Turn on the regulator and adjust the flow to 15-19 LPM. The bag will inflate. Breathe out as much as you can, pull the bag down over your whole head so the elastic drawcord is snug, not airtight, around your neck. Take a deep breath, then breath naturally. The lighter inert gas will keep the bag filled while the heavier CO2 escapes out the bottom. Your body has no instinctive, evolution-based, involuntary reaction--survival instinct--about breathing inert gases as it does for CO2. Your brain and nervous system don't know the difference. With 3 or 4 or 5 breaths (no, no one can tell you precisely how many)--or about 15 to 30 seconds--you'll painlessly become unconscious. In a few minutes (no, no one can tell you precisely how many) you will die.
When I see people saying that they survived this method or that this method doesn't work, I know for sure that it didn't work because they did something wrong. Reread my little paragraph about all living things on Earth.
People who say that this method is unproven are even more uninformed. It's been used successfully world-wide countless times for many decades.
If the correct materials are gathered; if they're assembled correctly; if the simple final procedures are followed meticulously then this method is 100% effective.
That's not to say it's for everyone. If you can't obtain the materials, then obviously it's not for you. If you don't like the idea of a gas-filled bag over your head, then it's not for you. I can respect that.
You've got to go with the flow. I hate heights, in a million years I'd never be able to jump off a high place, so why in the world would I choose that method? Someone else might be afraid of firearms or deep water; so why would they ever choose a gun or drowning? This whole experience is stressful enough, don't add to it.
I'll be glad to answer any friendly and polite PM's about this subject or Pegasos.
Last edited:
