Is college education overrated?

[noname223]

I think some conservatives in the US say that. There were too much liberal arts.
In my country craftsmen, mechanics, carpenters say we should give college education less attention or value. In my country they say for having a good life with a lot of wealth go to college. I think this is not fully true. I think some people just go to college for parties, getting drunk etc. I have the feeling some are not really interested in the subjects.

Personally I really like education. But there is a lot of unhealthy performance pressure in college. In my country we call a certain phenomena bulimia studiyng. Students try to memorize the information for a short time (for the exam) and later they forget most of it. So there is no real benefit. I think partly college really promotes that strategy/philsophy. Personally I cannot study this way. But I think many students do.

What do you think?

 

[Life_and_Death]

not when youre using it to shove it in your parents face

 

[GrumpyFrog]

The whole modern professional education system is broken as hell. It's probably more broken where I live than it is in the West - the curriculum is very outdated (to a ludicrous degree if you want to get a degree in tech) and unless you're doctor or an engineer, about 80% of your curriculum would consist of stuff you'll most likely never use in your job, and on top of tuition fees, the college staff is so depressingly underpaid that almost all of them make their living via bribery and doing labs/term papers etc. for their students for pay, making the whole system look like a pay-to-win game when it is technically possible to pass for free, but it would take an inhumane amount of time and effort because everything is fixed to get as much money out of you as possible.
But even without those issues, the education system is overrated by society in general. There are some professions (for example, healthcare that I mentioned before) where classic college education is still irreplaceably valuable, but for many others - I wouldn't say that college doesn't make any difference in the level of preparation for your first days on the job in your profession of choice comparing to not having any education, but considering that how much time, money and effort you waste on going to college the actual advantage in skill level of someone with a diploma and zero experience over someone with no education and no experience, but, for example, an amateur interest in the profession, is depressingly small. Hell, in some professions a hobbyist is likely to be more skilled and good for the job than a college graduate that didn't have much time to practice between classes and some waiter job they worked to put food on their table. And yet college diploma is still used as a "measuring stick" of your success. To make things worse, society is beating down on people who work jobs that do not require a college education, even if those jobs often create more value than the more "prestigious" ones. Overall, I'd say the higher education system is one of the biggest sources of social inequality, injustice and one of the biggest spanner in the works of the concept of social mobility. It is probably the biggest contributing factor to the fact that even in our modern "enlightened" society being socially disenfranchised is often not only semi-permanent for a person, but even semi-hereditary, and classes remain segregated. It is the asterisk next to the "if you can dream it, you can do it", linking it to the longest footnote about limitations applying to this concept (except for, maybe, the concept of citizenship that makes you tied to a state with all it's problems by a virtue of being born, from cradle to the grave and to the point where the state can order you to die - it is an even worse dream-crusher).

 

[jodes2]

I think some conservatives in the US say that. There were too much liberal arts.
In my country craftsmen, mechanics, carpenters say we should give college education less attention or value. In my country they say for having a good life with a lot of wealth go to college. I think this is not fully true. I think some people just go to college for parties, getting drunk etc. I have the feeling some are not really interested in the subjects.

Personally I really like education. But there is a lot of unhealthy performance pressure in college. In my country we call a certain phenomena bulimia studiyng. Students try to memorize the information for a short time (for the exam) and later they forget most of it. So there is no real benefit. I think partly college really promotes that strategy/philsophy. Personally I cannot study this way. But I think many students do.

What do you think?

The piece of paper is definitely important for jobs like programming. I failed uni and was fired from my gap year so couldn't return after the summer they realised I was no good

 

[hamvil]

There are two types of colleges. The famous/fancy one and the crappy ones. Please consider that I speak for the STEM field but I suspect the other are no different.

The famous ones are the ones that all employers know. The society thinks that if you get a degree there you must be some kind of genius. The quality of education is not so much different from the crappy universities. You get better labs usually and better facilities. Modern classrooms and better spaces for studying. You also enjoy extra curricular activities and these universities also get you access to partying if you are that type of person. Overall you pay a bit more for the prestige. Should you attend such universities? Meh if you are really inclined to study or you want to access some high paying job maybe. Please consider that especially in computer science ALL universities are far behind what industry wants. You can learn what you need to pass an interview at google in one year using online resources. There are indeed however a few STEM field where maybe a formal education is needed.

Then there are the crappy universities. These are the universities that typically get students only from around a 100 km radious. Meaning that nobody in a sane status of mind would actually travel to go there. They cater to the loser students that cannot access the fancy college. Please notice that in europe all universities are almost free or totally free. So when I say that the loser cannot access a university is not because of economical reasons but because he/she is either not motivated or the family thinks that the local university is good enough. To those student I say: forget the degree, go to a professional school learn to do a job and be happy with that. You will have save 5 years of pain and in the meantime you will earn money,

Overall, universities are just the biggest scam of our century. There are bult to give people hopes and dreams while most of the students will do some silly job 10 km from his homwtown.

Btw if you think I do not know what I am talking about please notice that I am actually a university professor.

The piece of paper is definitely important for jobs like programming. I failed uni and was fired from my gap year so couldn't return after the summer they realised I was no good

You can prepare for an interview at google on your own studying one year. You do not need 3 or in some case even 5 years of studies to do that. The programs at universities are often quite behind what industry wants.

 

[aleph_zero]

I think some conservatives in the US say that. There were too much liberal arts.
In my country craftsmen, mechanics, carpenters say we should give college education less attention or value. In my country they say for having a good life with a lot of wealth go to college. I think this is not fully true. I think some people just go to college for parties, getting drunk etc. I have the feeling some are not really interested in the subjects.

Personally I really like education. But there is a lot of unhealthy performance pressure in college. In my country we call a certain phenomena bulimia studiyng. Students try to memorize the information for a short time (for the exam) and later they forget most of it. So there is no real benefit. I think partly college really promotes that strategy/philsophy. Personally I cannot study this way. But I think many students do.

What do you think?

I do think that, as you said, many people choose to attend universities simply in order to widen their social circle and engage in all the hedonistic activities associated with young adulthood. Another reason is the social status that the degree grants you once it's obtained. Now there are of course professions where the diploma is actually required, but, in fields like computer science, it's nothing more than a piece of paper that you can use to flaunt your status and to signal that you're a valuable member of the tribe that has the capacity to sacrifice the present in order to follow a socially constructed list of tasks.

There are so many high quality resources online that you can use to gain theoretical knowledge on pretty much any subject. What you said about unhealthy performance pressure is also true, the way examination is conducted does seem to encourage temporary memorization of large sets of data without much structure. The awareness that your process of learning has the end-goal of demonstrating what you've learned to another individual must affect the process in some way.

I did go to university for a while, because I could only do what was expected of me or face the consequences of being anti-social, and I was much more susceptible to peer-pressure at that age. I gave up on the degree right at the very end, when I had 4 exams left until graduation and I do not regret it. I simply do not have the mental structure required to participate in this system, I am revolted by it. The thought of having to spend 8 hours a day working for the rest of this miserable existence is precisely what's motivating me to get the SN and quit this pointless game. I work part-time now and even that doesn't seem like a worthwhile trade.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

In my 2nd week and I already want to get the hell out.

 

[Lookingtotalk]

I think some conservatives in the US say that. There were too much liberal arts.
In my country craftsmen, mechanics, carpenters say we should give college education less attention or value. In my country they say for having a good life with a lot of wealth go to college. I think this is not fully true. I think some people just go to college for parties, getting drunk etc. I have the feeling some are not really interested in the subjects.

Personally I really like education. But there is a lot of unhealthy performance pressure in college. In my country we call a certain phenomena bulimia studiyng. Students try to memorize the information for a short time (for the exam) and later they forget most of it. So there is no real benefit. I think partly college really promotes that strategy/philsophy. Personally I cannot study this way. But I think many students do.

What do you think?

Yes, it is overrated, as soon as the internet became a thing with information to do stuff for free, college goes down dramatically, in the 70's-90's i would say no, 2000-2010 maybe, 2010-current, yes

if you are not a great self-learner, or want the brand of a big school eg harvard, yale etc., then go, but otherwise no, 75% people go to party get drunk get some degree they dont actually use, 25% go to actually learn and study and still may not use that degree they get, so i would say yes overpriced and overated, i mean i went, and did learn some good stuff, but learned way more at the job that paid me to learn what their company did and learning online, and books for stuff i was interested before when i enjoyed life and was not suicidal from fucking it up

 

[Zegers]

In state schools what teach you is to be a slave, that's how it is. If you think about it you dont learn anything for daily life; nutrition (which is important) basic finance, basic psychology to cope emotions, manage relations with people, social skills, communication, things that are essential and college is a bunch of theory without practice which is of no use. It can be interesting for networking and party, especially in fine colleges.

 

[FlaxFlower]

College is both great and terrible for many reasons. A lot of good points have already been made!

I am in the U.S. and I've found much of the work force, even if you're using the degree you earned, still requires on the job training. Why not make it all in the job training? Do residency like medical students do!? Going to college is like hey I want to be an engineer, but I need to take an art class and English classes every year, etc… No I don't remember how to properly format a paper in MLA style or site my sources. And it won't help me in most jobs, bo more than high school English classes did. I didn't go to school for engineering, just trying to make a point.

The social aspect and some other aspects have some merits I suppose!

To me it seems a huge waste of money. Most people go into debt from going to school. I wish I had more nice things to say about it, especially if it might be someone's only chance of getting out of retail/service industry hell. But most folks I know doing customer based jobs have higher education anyways.

I'm so curious what the future of jobs/careers will be as our media based lives create new jobs I never would have imagined. No longer do you need a travel agent and now everyone is an "influencer". I don't love it but I'm also intrigued by folks not working soul draining 9-5's. Who knows how long university will be good for. Hopefully some large work reform happens sooner than I hope to dream it might!

 

[hamvil]

The whole modern professional education system is broken as hell. It's probably more broken where I live than it is in the West - the curriculum is very outdated (to a ludicrous degree if you want to get a degree in tech) and unless you're doctor or an engineer, about 80% of your curriculum would consist of stuff you'll most likely never use in your job, and on top of tuition fees, the college staff is so depressingly underpaid that almost all of them make their living via bribery and doing labs/term papers etc. for their students for pay, making the whole system look like a pay-to-win game when it is technically possible to pass for free, but it would take an inhumane amount of time and effort because everything is fixed to get as much money out of you as possible.
But even without those issues, the education system is overrated by society in general. There are some professions (for example, healthcare that I mentioned before) where classic college education is still irreplaceably valuable, but for many others - I wouldn't say that college doesn't make any difference in the level of preparation for your first days on the job in your profession of choice comparing to not having any education, but considering that how much time, money and effort you waste on going to college the actual advantage in skill level of someone with a diploma and zero experience over someone with no education and no experience, but, for example, an amateur interest in the profession, is depressingly small. Hell, in some professions a hobbyist is likely to be more skilled and good for the job than a college graduate that didn't have much time to practice between classes and some waiter job they worked to put food on their table. And yet college diploma is still used as a "measuring stick" of your success. To make things worse, society is beating down on people who work jobs that do not require a college education, even if those jobs often create more value than the more "prestigious" ones. Overall, I'd say the higher education system is one of the biggest sources of social inequality, injustice and one of the biggest spanner in the works of the concept of social mobility. It is probably the biggest contributing factor to the fact that even in our modern "enlightened" society being socially disenfranchised is often not only semi-permanent for a person, but even semi-hereditary, and classes remain segregated. It is the asterisk next to the "if you can dream it, you can do it", linking it to the longest footnote about limitations applying to this concept (except for, maybe, the concept of citizenship that makes you tied to a state with all it's problems by a virtue of being born, from cradle to the grave and to the point where the state can order you to die - it is an even worse dream-crusher).

quote everything 100% and I know this very well since I am inside the system. Families often look at big colleges and think it is everything like that. The reality if that 90% of the colleges or more are underfunded, with professors that are old and without a real touch with technology and with outdated programs. It is a scam really.

 

[Celerity]

If companies were actually willing to put the time and effort it takes into training people and offered good retirement packages to entice workers to stay, most college degrees (generic business, liberal arts, social science, etc) would be obsolete.

Education has an abstract value above and beyond occupational training, but you don't need higher education to achieve it, and it requires a mindset I think few people have if I can allow myself to be a bit elitist here for a moment. I think most people would agree that few of us are "lifetime learners", and that's okay. Critical thinking is also not common sense; it is difficult to teach, and our own human psychology fights rationality at every turn.

Looking at the mess that higher education has become in the US, I think a lot of it (besides poor government) stems from trying to achieve too many ideals at once. An ideal system that promotes free inquiry and an educated citizenry is not the same as one that churns out qualified engineers, accountants, lawyers, and doctors. I won't pretend I have a good solution to the problem, but I think it would be helpful to remove 4-year gen ed requirement for people just trying to get to their doctoring and lawyering.

 

[Unhirable]

Yes.

It's about 1 year of education stretched across 4 years.

Forget about the money aspect. It is a total waste of time.

 

[Deboneire1]

College education is indoctrination. Basically, teach you how to follow orders and be a good little non thinking slave.

 

[Jane Doe 13]

I wholeheartedly want to pursue academia. I don't mind having to take useless courses having nothing to do with my future career, but they shouldn't make us do that much work and constantly worry about exams. And everything is expensive like the tuition and the textbooks. It's a scam, yes. But hopefully my hard work will pay off. I can't imagine dropping everything I have to go through so far and then letting some greedy corporation exploit my labor. Working is meaningless so I try to stay away from it as long as I can. I prefer doing my own projects, not very valuable for the market ofc.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think in the UK at least, most college and university courses are too insular- in my experience- they didn't really equip me for finding a job. To my mind- seeing as how much a course costs- that ought to be a major focus.

Perhaps NVQ's are better for that. I personally wish I'd done an apprenticeship.

Mainly my own fault for choosing qualifications in the arts but I'm in a position now with two BA degrees looking for a wage slave job. I've even worked in a shop with someone who had a PHD! Sometimes I wonder how responsible it is to offer courses that costs thousands- when there is so little chance to find work at the end. Still, I guess we all know that possibility going in to it.

 

[manocsak]

It's depends, if you know what you want to do with your life, and you can reach it without a collage, can use alternative tutoring, or learning, then it's useless.

If you don't know what do you want to do you better with it as people will see that you have any kind of paper or don't.

And there are some carriers actually require one, like being a Medical Professional etc.

 

[unHumam]

for me, absolutely. Maybe it was just my major but there is basically no way for me to get a high paying job without getting a masters, an impossibility to afford for me. Currently working min wage with a degree, worst mistake of my life. For other majors it is probably a good idea to go tho, it really depends.
for me, absolutely. Maybe it was just my major but there is basically no way for me to get a high paying job without getting a masters, an impossibility to afford for me. Currently working min wage with a degree, worst mistake of my life. For other majors it is probably a good idea to go tho, it really depends.

 

[DiscT]

The whole modern professional education system is broken as hell. It's probably more broken where I live than it is in the West - the curriculum is very outdated (to a ludicrous degree if you want to get a degree in tech) and unless you're doctor or an engineer, about 80% of your curriculum would consist of stuff you'll most likely never use in your job, and on top of tuition fees, the college staff is so depressingly underpaid that almost all of them make their living via bribery and doing labs/term papers etc. for their students for pay, making the whole system look like a pay-to-win game when it is technically possible to pass for free, but it would take an inhumane amount of time and effort because everything is fixed to get as much money out of you as possible.
But even without those issues, the education system is overrated by society in general. There are some professions (for example, healthcare that I mentioned before) where classic college education is still irreplaceably valuable, but for many others - I wouldn't say that college doesn't make any difference in the level of preparation for your first days on the job in your profession of choice comparing to not having any education, but considering that how much time, money and effort you waste on going to college the actual advantage in skill level of someone with a diploma and zero experience over someone with no education and no experience, but, for example, an amateur interest in the profession, is depressingly small. Hell, in some professions a hobbyist is likely to be more skilled and good for the job than a college graduate that didn't have much time to practice between classes and some waiter job they worked to put food on their table. And yet college diploma is still used as a "measuring stick" of your success. To make things worse, society is beating down on people who work jobs that do not require a college education, even if those jobs often create more value than the more "prestigious" ones. Overall, I'd say the higher education system is one of the biggest sources of social inequality, injustice and one of the biggest spanner in the works of the concept of social mobility. It is probably the biggest contributing factor to the fact that even in our modern "enlightened" society being socially disenfranchised is often not only semi-permanent for a person, but even semi-hereditary, and classes remain segregated. It is the asterisk next to the "if you can dream it, you can do it", linking it to the longest footnote about limitations applying to this concept (except for, maybe, the concept of citizenship that makes you tied to a state with all it's problems by a virtue of being born, from cradle to the grave and to the point where the state can order you to die - it is an even worse dream-crusher).

As a medical student, I would say we need to stop thinking that modern education serves the professions. It doesn't. Medical and law schools are incredibly broken as well however you may not hear about these stories very much because of the shame involved with high achievers going into debt for nothing. These systems suck and need to be demolished.

 

[Celerity]

As a medical student, I would say we need to stop thinking that modern education serves the professions. It doesn't. Medical and law schools are incredibly broken as well however you may not hear about these stories very much because of the shame involved with high achievers going into debt for nothing. These systems suck and need to be demolished.

As someone who is interested in becoming a doctor, the debt and length of training really make me hesitant. Since I want to do primary care, NP or PA school may have a better risk/reward ratio, but I worry it won't be enough for me. What made you decide to take the leap with med school despite everything? And what reforms would you like to see made to medical school and residency?

 

[unsaiddes]

I think it depends. My brother is a tradesman with a very impressive salary, his wife a well educated nurse with a similarly good pay. I went to college for something stupid because I couldn't make a decision, and currently am working in an unrelated field making half as much as them. I think if you have the opportunity to get a degree and you're interested in that, you shouldn't waste it. But if you're not interested, there are many other avenues.

 

[DiscT]

College is both great and terrible for many reasons. A lot of good points have already been made!

I am in the U.S. and I've found much of the work force, even if you're using the degree you earned, still requires on the job training. Why not make it all in the job training? Do residency like medical students do!? Going to college is like hey I want to be an engineer, but I need to take an art class and English classes every year, etc… No I don't remember how to properly format a paper in MLA style or site my sources. And it won't help me in most jobs, bo more than high school English classes did. I didn't go to school for engineering, just trying to make a point.

The social aspect and some other aspects have some merits I suppose!

To me it seems a huge waste of money. Most people go into debt from going to school. I wish I had more nice things to say about it, especially if it might be someone's only chance of getting out of retail/service industry hell. But most folks I know doing customer based jobs have higher education anyways.

I'm so curious what the future of jobs/careers will be as our media based lives create new jobs I never would have imagined. No longer do you need a travel agent and now everyone is an "influencer". I don't love it but I'm also intrigued by folks not working soul draining 9-5's. Who knows how long university will be good for. Hopefully some large work reform happens sooner than I hope to dream it might!

You have great insight

 

[DiscT]

In state schools what teach you is to be a slave, that's how it is. If you think about it you dont learn anything for daily life; nutrition (which is important) basic finance, basic psychology to cope emotions, manage relations with people, social skills, communication, things that are essential and college is a bunch of theory without practice which is of no use. It can be interesting for networking and party, especially in fine colleges.

Why do you think that is? Can't we take out the subjects of maths, english etc and introduce a more humane body of knowledge? It sounds nice only that it is bound to cause uproar because some parents say nobody (besides them, which is laughable for someone working 23 out of 24 hours) should teach their kids how to live e.g. sexuality, morals, career etc. Teach them empathy, not just facts. But the parents also have a point, if you want them educated your way, teach them at home.

 

[Ambivalent1]

No unless you pick a bad major

 

[Alo the obvi alien]

I think some conservatives in the US say that. There were too much liberal arts.
In my country craftsmen, mechanics, carpenters say we should give college education less attention or value. In my country they say for having a good life with a lot of wealth go to college. I think this is not fully true. I think some people just go to college for parties, getting drunk etc. I have the feeling some are not really interested in the subjects.

Personally I really like education. But there is a lot of unhealthy performance pressure in college. In my country we call a certain phenomena bulimia studiyng. Students try to memorize the information for a short time (for the exam) and later they forget most of it. So there is no real benefit. I think partly college really promotes that strategy/philsophy. Personally I cannot study this way. But I think many students do.

What do you think?

Something not many people realize about the American government is that they purposely don't want their people educated. They want work monkeys. That's why "dumb jocks" and "dumb cheerleaders" are always portrayed as the desirables. That's the why "nerds" are ugly and understandable. It's all within their propaganda since forever.


Now, college-speaking as someone who is a drop out- I don't think that the financial struggle at the end would have been worth it either way. I wanted to be a teacher and I needed a Master's for the school I wanted to work at, they paid little, and there were no guarantees I would be teaching what I was qualified to do. Not worth it, but I am always learning. I know how to do research. I TRY to see every side of the story for politics and social issues. I read new articles or watch the news to stay updated on international news and national news. I form my own opinions always. Etc....

All to say, it's about what you do after school that important. But ALL the countries that are thriving better than American value proper education, self-care, food and drug safety, as reliable as possible transportation and free healthcare.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Absolutely. Especially these days. Unless you already know the exact field you want to pursue and that endeavor happened to mandate a college education but otherwise it's mostly just a way to learn how to socialize as an adult which is also becoming increasingly undervalued anyway.

 

[Ah.ow]

The whole modern professional education system is broken as hell. It's probably more broken where I live than it is in the West - the curriculum is very outdated (to a ludicrous degree if you want to get a degree in tech) and unless you're doctor or an engineer, about 80% of your curriculum would consist of stuff you'll most likely never use in your job, and on top of tuition fees, the college staff is so depressingly underpaid that almost all of them make their living via bribery and doing labs/term papers etc. for their students for pay, making the whole system look like a pay-to-win game when it is technically possible to pass for free, but it would take an inhumane amount of time and effort because everything is fixed to get as much money out of you as possible.
But even without those issues, the education system is overrated by society in general. There are some professions (for example, healthcare that I mentioned before) where classic college education is still irreplaceably valuable, but for many others - I wouldn't say that college doesn't make any difference in the level of preparation for your first days on the job in your profession of choice comparing to not having any education, but considering that how much time, money and effort you waste on going to college the actual advantage in skill level of someone with a diploma and zero experience over someone with no education and no experience, but, for example, an amateur interest in the profession, is depressingly small. Hell, in some professions a hobbyist is likely to be more skilled and good for the job than a college graduate that didn't have much time to practice between classes and some waiter job they worked to put food on their table. And yet college diploma is still used as a "measuring stick" of your success. To make things worse, society is beating down on people who work jobs that do not require a college education, even if those jobs often create more value than the more "prestigious" ones. Overall, I'd say the higher education system is one of the biggest sources of social inequality, injustice and one of the biggest spanner in the works of the concept of social mobility. It is probably the biggest contributing factor to the fact that even in our modern "enlightened" society being socially disenfranchised is often not only semi-permanent for a person, but even semi-hereditary, and classes remain segregated. It is the asterisk next to the "if you can dream it, you can do it", linking it to the longest footnote about limitations applying to this concept (except for, maybe, the concept of citizenship that makes you tied to a state with all it's problems by a virtue of being born, from cradle to the grave and to the point where the state can order you to die - it is an even worse dream-crusher).

can you or anyone elaborate the bribery? I heard of this toward admissions, and I guess donors' kids are treated similar, but is there other types?