Is free will impossible?

[lacrimosa]

When it comes to free will, I believe that we're merely acting on instinct and responding to external stimulus based on our biological makeup.

Also, if we had real free will, we would be able to go back in time to change our decision(s). Because, once you make a decision, it's set in stone and has a domino effect.

For example: If you start a medication that affects your desire to eat less, you will eat less. Your desire to eat more or less is no longer controlled by your willpower or lack thereof. Again, this is based on biology or a drug you are taking that affects your biology.

 

[soonatpeace777888]

Free Will is a nonsense.

 

[CompressedAtoms]

To quote: in this economy?!

In the end you'll just need money. I guess free will also depends on the person, I think a life of just traveling by hopping trains or hitch hiking would be free-will for me.

 

[Mirrory Me]

One of the things is to understand that you are a doer of your own life, you don't owe yourself to anybody for the deeds they have done for you.

 

[Scythe]

If I didn't have free will I would've followed the teachings of my family and society and believe working until you die is the way to live, life is inherently valueable and suicide is bad. This is what almost everyone grows up in, yet here we are, I'm not the only one on this forum who's here because they genuinely hate how society works. We made our own decisions and formed our own opinions about this world.

 

[Just_Another_Person]

I'm not a physicist but I don't believe in free will given the first sub-atomic particle (or whatever came first) "decided" everything. Example: you have to choose between eating pizza or lasagna for dinner. What do you choose? Let's say you chose pizza because you prefer pizza over lasagna. And why do you have this preference? Maybe because your grandpa had a pizza place and you have fond memories of it. And why your grandpa had a pizza place? Maybe he had a secret recipe that his mother taught him after he asked for pizza and she said "if you want, go make it yourself" when he was a kid. If he was in the mood for other thing than pizza things could be different, but he wanted pizza. What made him want pizza that day? Saw a commercial on tv? Early a friend was boasting that they ate a whole pizza? And this goes on and on until the first "action" that happened in the universe. Oversimplifying, it is like billiard: the first move was done. Now all the ball's positions and choices to play derive from that movement.

This video is more focused on the multi-verse theory but the philosophy about free will in it is more or less the same one that I believe:

 

[Forever Sleep]

Free will is simply decision making- surely? Anyone can have the desire to steal something- if they can't afford it. They know they shouldn't do it. Some will, some won't. Maybe you could argue that some people have stronger genes to resist temptation. Or, they received a sterner upbringing that they musn't commit crime. I think it's lazy to just blame bad behaviour on factors out of our control though. I think they certainly affect how we behave but ultimately, I think 'we' get final say.

I'd say that's why judges etc. often try to push for culpability with serious crime. Maybe a person's past- if they were sexually abused for instance may make them more likely to commit acts of sexual violence on others. But, not everyone who has been abused, not everyone who even has violent thoughts will carry them out. To an extent, I think self control is a choice. An alcoholic either chooses to buy more alcohol or not. The desire is still there but our actions follow choice.

Maybe certain criminals are 'better' at being able to hurt others because they have psychopathy I guess. Still- they demonstrate that they know what they're doing is wrong when they seek to conceal their crimes. That's calculated. That is acting on free will if you like. They are making decisions to do these things and try and get away with them. If they were simply helplessly acting on their own impulses, would they even be able to realise that what they were doing was wrong? Would they be able to cover it up?

Surely, no one would be able to kill themselves if free will didn't exist. Suicide is absolutely against both natural and societal norms. You'd have to believe that everything in a person's make up and experience was pointing them towards suicide otherwise and, they were powerless to resist. What else but free will do we use to overpower our survival instinct?

 

[pyx]

quantum indeterminacy doesn't negate macroscopic determinism (assuming that the brain doesn't follow the one-sidedness of physicalism), so i don't think that free will is achievable

 

[Pluto]

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Which Will are we trying to Free here? Will Smith? Will Ferrel? Willem Dafoe? So many Wills, so little time…

 

[avoid]

I believe in free will; people can make their own choices, including believing in determinism.

Free will vs determinism debates offer plenty of arguments for and against either side. Much like with religion, we can't prove or disprove either side with current day technology so you can believe what you want. Just don't claim your believe as factual and don't use determinism as an excuse for your actions.

 

[summa_tyme2224]

I believe in free will; people can make their own choices, including believing in determinism.

Free will vs determinism debates offer plenty of arguments for and against either side. Much like with religion, we can't prove or disprove either side with current day technology so you can believe what you want. Just don't claim your believe as factual and don't use determinism as an excuse for your actions.

I mean if determinism is real, using it as an excuse for actions seems valid. Not saying it's right but since we don't know if it's real, why not use it as an excuse- it very well may be an excuse.

If I didn't have free will I would've followed the teachings of my family and society and believe working until you die is the way to live, life is inherently valueable and suicide is bad. This is what almost everyone grows up in, yet here we are, I'm not the only one on this forum who's here because they genuinely hate how society works. We made our own decisions and formed our own opinions about this world.

How do you know you weren't born with a brain that chemically caused you to be different which was determined by your ancestors which was determined by the Big Bang etc etc.

 

[alienfreak]

Based on all empirical evidence, it doesnt exist. It is barely possible to characterise the concept itself as anything coherent. Certainly our actions are largely limited and affected by everything that happens to us, along wtih genetics, so practically it must be a very limited will.

Despite all that, we have no idea how consciousness really works. We are clearly missing critical information. Deterministic laws of physics somehow to lead from inanimate rocks and gases to brains that can perceive reality. Something is missing. So I have no confidence or capacity to comprehend if there is some "spiritual" or other mechanism that gives us real agency in some way.

Strangely it seems many people believe in free will just because they "feel" it but i dont feel it at all.

 

[Darkover]

How much of our lives are predetermined? Do we have any say in how things play out or are we simply living out a story that has already been written?

There have definitely been moments in all of our lives when we have experienced the feeling of a fated event.

Maybe we could chalk it up to being in the right place at the right time, but most of us would have had some encounter with the mystery of fate.

This does not necessarily mean that our entire lives are predetermined, however. As most of us also know, we have free will. We can choose to act or not act and we can choose to make a decision or not.

But are we making these decisions on autopilot?

I personally don't feel that to be true.

I feel that we have free will in this life and that a lot of our decisions and actions will determine our future. For a part, the future is in our own hands.

However, I also believe that there is a certain element of destiny as well.

free will and destiny co-exist


I clearly understand that my thoughts and decisions have some certain cause, they are just the inevitable consequence of the knowledge my brain accumulated during my life and physical properties of the brain. I didn't choose how my brain works, and I didn't choose the environment which gives me the knowledge about the reality. My choice doesn't appear out of nowhere; whenever I try to choose something, I already have to rely on some previously obtained knowledge and hope that my brain will be able to produce a good decision.

 

[yxmux]

Under a physicalist worldview, free will seems impossible because all physical events are determined by prior physical causes. In contrast, a non-physicalist view might allow for free will if the mind or soul has some influence over brain activity. However, based on what we know, the nervous system operates through sensory inputs and cognitive processes linked to observable brain patterns.

 

[DarkRange55]

quantum indeterminacy doesn't negate macroscopic determinism (assuming that the brain doesn't follow the one-sidedness of physicalism), so i don't think that free will is achievable

What makes you say that? (in both senses of the question)

When it comes to free will, I believe that we're merely acting on instinct and responding to external stimulus based on our biological makeup.

Also, if we had real free will, we would be able to go back in time to change our decision(s). Because, once you make a decision, it's set in stone and has a domino effect.

For example: If you start a medication that affects your desire to eat less, you will eat less. Your desire to eat more or less is no longer controlled by your willpower or lack thereof. Again, this is based on biology or a drug you are taking that affects your biology.

The uncertainty principle plus chaotic interactions say no atomic determinism.
The fine details of neuroscience or psychology will be hard to predict from first principles, but the broad picture will be worked out.

On free will, if you are considering only one universe: Humans do not have complete free will. We are not free from our biology. Our actions are based on how we feel which is influenced by our genetics and environment, which conflicts with how many define free will. Genetics and the environment are beyond your control. If the universe repeated itself exactly as it did the first time up to that moment, you would still choose the same option as you did the first time. Because every event that led up to that moment determined what you would choose despite having the "free will" to choose the other option, all other things considered. Your past experiences color what option you would naturally lean towards first.

It is a matter of degree. Even a bacterium has sufficient complexity to have something resembling free will, although to a much lesser extent than humans.
On a grand scale even humans don't choose place and time - we are on earth, now, and humanity just happened.
A mouse is even more restricted geographically, and a bacterium still more so.
But even a bacterium can choose to attack or retreat, to cooperate or compete, and balances conflicting signals in making its choice.
(If one argues that it is all decided by the interactions of molecules and so is not "choice", then that argument also applies to humans.)

Setting aside giant viruses, which are more complex than some bacteria, I haven't heard of individual viruses balancing conflicting signals in determining their actions, but in some sense a viral infection does this on a fast evolutionary time scale (on the order of days).

 

[bleeding_heart_show]

Short answer: I believe in free will.

Long answer: I do not believe in free will (I hope you are prepared for pretentious babble).

To preface what I am about to say I am using the merriam webster definition of free will (specifically the first one) to explain my thoughts this. I do not care to approach this from a religious/philosophical standpoint.

Free will exists in some capacity, but all of our actions are put through an intrinsic filter of various deterministic factors (i.e. genetic predispositions, adverse childhood experiences, neurodiversity, attachment style, financial status, current mood, level of toxin exposure, weather, diet, etc. etc. etc.) and what comes out is a distorted version of what we intended to do/say.

I should be more elaborate, but I do not want to get caught up in thinking about this since it depresses me.

To summarise; we are shackled by our environment, biology, experiences, and countless other factors.

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

This is a big topic that I have a lot of feelings about, but very little energy to write about.

This is one of my big research anchors on the topic:

Spinoza on Free Will and Freedom | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu