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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
5,430
I am rather neutral in the Palestine-Israel conflict. I am currently reading scientifical articles before coming to a conclusion. I think if I want to maintain my chance to become German chancellor I should be careful with my words in this heated debate.

The German media is compared with international standards more on the side of Israel I think this is safe to say. Almost all German mainstream media outlets call it antisemitic when one calls Israel an apartheid state or if one supports BDS (boycott, divestment and Sanctions) against Israel.

German media mostly praised FFF. But now even leftwing media distanced themselves fully and called it the end for movement in Germany which is a pretty big step.
They criticize FFF very much especially the International version. They call Greta Thunberg and others in this movement antisemitic. I think almost all media outlets will do that left and rightwing ones.

From what I have read many people in that movement side with Palestine. They call what the Israelis are doing a genocide. There are people close to with movement which play down the holocaust.

I don't know how I shall judge. Many international members would call the German media biased. My main sources (not all) are German. So I am rather hesitant to come to a conclusion. And societal wise being called antisemitic is in Germany sort of a death sentence for public figures. But even saying that would be seen as slightly antisemitic. I as a German know what our country did and I am careful in this debate. More than usually.

What do you think about that?
 
real person

real person

Experienced
Dec 11, 2023
207
germany doesn't want to repeat it's past which is why it's so pro israel. if you want a more (imp) accurate view check out the work of norman finklestein
 
Rapière

Rapière

On the brink
Jul 7, 2022
249
Yes, but it's not the Nazi version of antisemitism. It's new antisemitism.
Do you think their takes on Israel would be differerent if it were inhabited by, say, austrians instesd of jews?

I mean, I get the idiosyncrasies, but youre not doing yourself any favors by branding criticism of Israel and Anti-Zionism as antisemtic. You're just dilluting the term, which makes it more difficult to call out real antisemitism. It's possible to have crude and undifferntiated tskes on Israel without being motivated ba racial hatred...
 
Pessimist

Pessimist

Mage
May 5, 2021
530
Do you think their takes on Israel would be differerent if it were inhabited by, say, austrians instesd of jews?

I mean, I get the idiosyncrasies, but youre not doing yourself any favors by branding criticism of Israel and Anti-Zionism as antisemtic. You're just dilluting the term, which makes it more difficult to call out real antisemitism. It's possible to have crude and undifferntiated tskes on Israel without being motivated ba racial hatred...
Criticizing the conservative government of Netanyahu and the settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. However, believing that the only Jewish country in the entire world doesn't have the right to exist is antisemitic. Anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism, mastered by the likes of Amin al-Husseini, and other Muslim leaders in British-controlled Palestine.

Also, a lot of anti-Zionists are not trying to hide their antisemitism anymore:










And many more examples...
 
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Rapière

Rapière

On the brink
Jul 7, 2022
249
Criticizing the conservative government of Netanyahu and the settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. However, believing that the only Jewish country in the entire world doesn't have the right to exist is antisemitic. Anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism, mastered by the likes of Amin al-Husseini, and other Muslim leaders in British-controlled Palestine.

Also, a lot of anti-Zionists are not trying to hide their antisemitism anymore:










And many more examples...

What does any of this have to do with Fridays for Future? The Anti-Zionism displayed by Greta Thunberg and western leftists in general, however dangerous and idiotic you may find it, is clearly not motivated by any kind of animosity towards jews, only by their disdsin for the opressive Israeli goverment.

Anways, I don't understand why you non-religious jews are so desperate to waste away in some shitty desert, surrounded by enemies. Europe has slways been a much more fertile ground for the jewish intellect...
 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Mage
May 5, 2021
530
Anways, I don't understand why you non-religious jews are so desperate to waste away in some shitty desert, surrounded by enemies. Europe has slways been a much more fertile ground for the jewish intellect...
That's because we were already born here and we can't go anywhere else. Now we are surrounded by people who deeply despise us unless Mansour Abbas or another Islamist leader becomes our prime minister.
 
Rapière

Rapière

On the brink
Jul 7, 2022
249
That's because we were already born here and we can't go anywhere else. Now we are surrounded by people who deeply despise us unless Mansour Abbas or another Islamist leader becomes our prime minister.
Right. That's why Zionism was failed project right from the get-go. Ensuring the safety of jews in that area just isn't possible without the constant shedding of blood (includung that of innocent civilians).
 
Pessimist

Pessimist

Mage
May 5, 2021
530
Right. That's why Zionism was failed project right from the get-go. Ensuring the safety of jews in that area just isn't possible without the constant shedding of blood (includung that of innocent civilians).
If you believe in Jewish people's right to self-determination, then you're a Zionist to some extent. The Jewish indigenousness to the land of Israel is another subject.
 
noSuffering

noSuffering

May the Force be with Israel
May 7, 2023
126
The left generally hates the West and wants to destroy it. They treat those who cut off their heads with shouts of Allah akbar better than those who bake cinnamon buns in the morning. Because the Muslim who cuts off the heads of leftists is an unfortunate victim of Western imperialism, and the baker is an exploitative capitalist.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯