Is self-help a lie and dangerous? Especially, when it comes to mental health?

[noname223]

I think Sanctioned Suicide counts as self-help. And we are depicted as the scum of the internet by many.

My college self-help group dies more and more. People are leaving and we don't find new members. I take the thing more and more into my own hands. The chemistry master student is the organizer (We once dated) and I try to help her now. I think we need to do more advertisement.

We have a competitor at the university. A group therapy with a professional. We once had some exchanges and they hate us. Lol. They call our group dangerous because there is no offical concept/noone (professional) who leads the group.

I know from my therapist who also does group therapy her rules. Discussions about suicide and other triggering topics are prohibited. I once experienced such groups in a clinic and they were maximum boring and dishonest. And I think dating between members is considered as bad there. (But I am not sure on that). I could not open up at all. I think I am not interested in such a group. (However, I might infiltrate them but that's a different story).

I think self-help can help. For many it is a cash grab though and one has to be really careful about the incentive structures.

I think our self-help group has done way more good than bad. Are there potential drawbacks? Probably. I think many leave the group because they consider it weak to discuss mental health all the time. It is conceived as self-centred, insular and instead one has to push through and never look back. This is the impression I get. Many who left prioritize their careers. But for me this is no option. If I aimed for that I would become acute suicidal again. I don't think I am weak on myself. I got the feedback by almost all people in the group that my problems sound like their problems on human growth hormones/steroides. I think barely anyone would have undergone this torture 5 semesters long. And I don't plan to go back. Lol.

I think here comes the problem though. I think the chemistry master student copies my lifestyle. It is really something I would not advice anyone with less issues. I would have pushed through if it would not literally lead to suicide. I almost killed myself last year because of all the problems that college caused. I am no role model. Certainly not.

And here I have to think about the words that self-help can be dangerous. The chemistry master student told me how thankful she is for me and she never has felt so good in her entire life. But I think this is not dodging college entirely. She has made major progress she can be open in group settings. She never talked about her inner feelings with anyone before. And she told me with my help she could do it. In our group there is no censorship suicide talk is allowed. And we asked for feedback noone ever said he or her feels burdened. I still think it is not an ideal place to talk about it. But the problem is not triggering. Most of them don't have as severe issues and don't really get it in my experience.

I think the therapists who gave me up also did some really dangerous shit. I was in a MDD and did not take antipsychotics. My therapist did not realize I had MDD and said I would not need antipsychotics. She reinforced my paranoia. She was a terrible therapist and ironically she worked for the same institution as our university competitor.

I see advantages and disadvantages of self-help. But it really depends on the rules. When I compare the group therapy from my clinic stay with our college group the latter is far far superior. I think a professional would not be a bad thing. But the censorship is. I want raw unfiltered people. Something honest. This is to what I can relate to. And it is probably one reason why I like SaSu this much.

I think the best compromise is to combine both. Don't rely entirely on self-help and stay open minded to professional therapy. For me a good mix is the best. I think my therapist might drop me soon. And I think if she does that this would certainly undermine my well-being. Wheras on SaSu or my self-help group noone ever wanted to throw me out.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it can help. Surely, all therapy is 'self help'. Ultimately, it's us who need to make the changes in life. I suppose the person suggesting those changes is the contentious bit. I've read numerous 'self- help' books though. Presumably, they are often written by 'professionals'.

But, I'd say I overcame limerence and borderline eating disorders by myself. I know how to 'manage' myself in certain situations. I didn't need a 'professional' to work out where I was struggling in life. It's sometimes helped me to read books, watch YouTube videos etc. to suggest how I might better cope.

I'm never sure whether this 'gate keeping' on even diagnosis is a good thing. I'm not even totally against self diagnosis although, I understand why people are nervous of it.

I suppose it's like everything though. A more unregulated platform can certainly do harm as well as good. I think people are often quite in tune as to whether they are being negatively influenced though. Take here for example. Some people do choose to leave. Rarely with mallice. More with a sense that it tempts them to lapse into very pessimistic thought patterns- which they are trying to fight. I think everyone needs to take responsibility for what they choose to expose themselves to and what harm or good it may be doing them.

Besides, it's not like official theray always helps. There are members here who feel worse off for it. I don't really like the snobbery around it. Especially seeing as it's such a comparatively new and vague 'science'.

I also think the taboo of not even being able to mention suicide is unhelpful. What kind of therapy uses repression as a useful tool? Surely, therapy is more about seeing repression as harmful- long- term at least. Do they truly believe that not talking about it will make it go away?

I didn't realise your group was non- 'professional' lead. Interesting. Do you know who set it up originally? Surely, someone must be in charge of the organising etc.

I've often thought that about the forum though. If they (the pro-life normies) set up a forum where people could still openly discuss suicide but, it had a more pro-life slant, would people visit it? I don't think I would. I don't want others to try and question or 'fix' me. I'm too old and stubborn for all that.

 

[noname223]

I think it can help. Surely, all therapy is 'self help'. Ultimately, it's us who need to make the changes in life. I suppose the person suggesting those changes is the contentious bit. I've read numerous 'self- help' books though. Presumably, they are often written by 'professionals'.

But, I'd say I overcame limerence and borderline eating disorders by myself. I know how to 'manage' myself in certain situations. I didn't need a 'professional' to work out where I was struggling in life. It's sometimes helped me to read books, watch YouTube videos etc. to suggest how I might better cope.

I'm never sure whether this 'gate keeping' on even diagnosis is a good thing. I'm not even totally against self diagnosis although, I understand why people are nervous of it.

I suppose it's like everything though. A more unregulated platform can certainly do harm as well as good. I think people are often quite in tune as to whether they are being negatively influenced though. Take here for example. Some people do choose to leave. Rarely with mallice. More with a sense that it tempts them to lapse into very pessimistic thought patterns- which they are trying to fight. I think everyone needs to take responsibility for what they choose to expose themselves to and what harm or good it may be doing them.

Besides, it's not like official theray always helps. There are members here who feel worse off for it. I don't really like the snobbery around it. Especially seeing as it's such a comparatively new and vague 'science'.

I also think the taboo of not even being able to mention suicide is unhelpful. What kind of therapy uses repression as a useful tool? Surely, therapy is more about seeing repression as harmful- long- term at least. Do they truly believe that not talking about it will make it go away?

I didn't realise your group was non- 'professional' lead. Interesting. Do you know who set it up originally? Surely, someone must be in charge of the organising etc.

I've often thought that about the forum though. If they (the pro-life normies) set up a forum where people could still openly discuss suicide but, it had a more pro-life slant, would people visit it? I don't think I would. I don't want others to try and question or 'fix' me. I'm too old and stubborn for all that.

I know who set up the group. Two nice young men. I have met them when I joined. But they left the group I think to further their careers. One of them isn't studying anymore and usually this is when the people don't feel part of the group anymore. But we opened the group to people who are not students.

 

[TBONTB]

I think Sanctioned Suicide counts as self-help. And we are depicted as the scum of the internet by many.

My college self-help group dies more and more. People are leaving and we don't find new members. I take the thing more and more into my own hands. The chemistry master student is the organizer (We once dated) and I try to help her now. I think we need to do more advertisement.

We have a competitor at the university. A group therapy with a professional. We once had some exchanges and they hate us. Lol. They call our group dangerous because there is no offical concept/noone (professional) who leads the group.

I know from my therapist who also does group therapy her rules. Discussions about suicide and other triggering topics are prohibited. I once experienced such groups in a clinic and they were maximum boring and dishonest. And I think dating between members is considered as bad there. (But I am not sure on that). I could not open up at all. I think I am not interested in such a group. (However, I might infiltrate them but that's a different story).

I think self-help can help. For many it is a cash grab though and one has to be really careful about the incentive structures.

I think our self-help group has done way more good than bad. Are there potential drawbacks? Probably. I think many leave the group because they consider it weak to discuss mental health all the time. It is conceived as self-centred, insular and instead one has to push through and never look back. This is the impression I get. Many who left prioritize their careers. But for me this is no option. If I aimed for that I would become acute suicidal again. I don't think I am weak on myself. I got the feedback by almost all people in the group that my problems sound like their problems on human growth hormones/steroides. I think barely anyone would have undergone this torture 5 semesters long. And I don't plan to go back. Lol.

I think here comes the problem though. I think the chemistry master student copies my lifestyle. It is really something I would not advice anyone with less issues. I would have pushed through if it would not literally lead to suicide. I almost killed myself last year because of all the problems that college caused. I am no role model. Certainly not.

And here I have to think about the words that self-help can be dangerous. The chemistry master student told me how thankful she is for me and she never has felt so good in her entire life. But I think this is not dodging college entirely. She has made major progress she can be open in group settings. She never talked about her inner feelings with anyone before. And she told me with my help she could do it. In our group there is no censorship suicide talk is allowed. And we asked for feedback noone ever said he or her feels burdened. I still think it is not an ideal place to talk about it. But the problem is not triggering. Most of them don't have as severe issues and don't really get it in my experience.

I think the therapists who gave me up also did some really dangerous shit. I was in a MDD and did not take antipsychotics. My therapist did not realize I had MDD and said I would not need antipsychotics. She reinforced my paranoia. She was a terrible therapist and ironically she worked for the same institution as our university competitor.

I see advantages and disadvantages of self-help. But it really depends on the rules. When I compare the group therapy from my clinic stay with our college group the latter is far far superior. I think a professional would not be a bad thing. But the censorship is. I want raw unfiltered people. Something honest. This is to what I can relate to. And it is probably one reason why I like SaSu this much.

I think the best compromise is to combine both. Don't rely entirely on self-help and stay open minded to professional therapy. For me a good mix is the best. I think my therapist might drop me soon. And I think if she does that this would certainly undermine my well-being. Wheras on SaSu or my self-help group noone ever wanted to throw me out.

It sounds like you are describing a peer support group, which seems like it's great as long as it works for the people involved. I think it would depend if the group has the skills to make sure the support is constructive and helps people remain resilient. Theres a risk when you put a lot of us with mental illnesses together that you just pass the mental illness between people.

 

[Apathy79]

Yeah would depend heavily on the group. When I think of self help, I think of all the stuff I watch on Youtube about how to train more efficiently, wire my brain to be more effective, avoid procrastination, find purpose and motivation, take responsibility, take risks in spite of fear, all that sort of thing loosely linked to not blaming the world for my problems and giving up but taking responsibility for them and finding and optimising a way forward that I can get behind. Kinda the antithesis to suicidal thinking in a way. So whether it's helpful would depend largely on whether you believe you can be helped.

But it also sounds different to what you are describing so it's hard to really answer the question when our definitions of self help are different. Yours sounds kind of like a group therapy session but without anyone trained in it - just regular people talking through their stuff? Which tbh is hard to view as a bad thing. I'd join a group like that if it existed near me. I like the idea.

 

[FoxSauce]

This going to sound incredibly dumb but whats self care in this instance?

 

[Holu]

Tbh idk why that other group is upset with you. Self help groups aren't dangerous unless you are self diagnosing one another. If it's all just support and placebo, then it's not really hurting anyone. Is it useful? IMO no, but if the placebo and sense of community is working then it can certainly help.

Sasu I don't personally consider a self help program/place. It's more just unsupervised group therapy. The intent isn't really to help unless we are talking about helping with methods. Otherwise it's more a place to express rather than guiding people to be better

 

[noname223]

This going to sound incredibly dumb but whats self care in this instance?

Self care or self help? Self-help can mean a lot. From self-help influencers to self-help groups.

 

[ccoki17]

It's called peer support.

Even my therapist told me to join one as I was on the verge of crisis.

And I had one in the past for something unrelated other life issues lol and they were paid for by my state so yeah...it's a real thing. No need for them to be pissy at you all for it.

 

[noname223]

Soon I will go to a new Self-help group for autism. They meet online. I am curious about their approach. They don't have a professional too.

And maybe I will try out the college self-help group with a professional.

I might promote our self-help group there. Even though they even warned about groups without a professional.

I might update this thread with new impressions.

From what I have read online the term self-help group is more fitting to my college group than peer support group.

 

[noname223]

The autism self-help group was interesting. We were like 6-7 people. Some of them savvy as fuck. There was one guy who stuck out. I think he reads hard science articles often. He really impressed me. Many of them were really analytical, rational and self-aware. I had the feeling I had a small brain compared to them. I held a little bit of a long monologue at the end about how pathological my thinking was. At the end I also opened up that I had psychoses. They were not judgemental.

I am not sure whether I will become regular member. They were interested in my experiences which felt good. But I also sounded like a (wanna-be) smartass sort of.

 

[wham311]

My mom used self help to get out of depression, fwiw