Is suicidality strictly a side effect/symptom of depression?

[(in)sane]

I want to see something so my question is, are you suicidal because you're depressed, or are you just suicidal and depressed? Everyone keeps telling me that suicidality is a symptom of depression and not what I would want if I wasn't depressed.

 

[gothbird]

Suicidality is not strictly a symptom of depression and while it is common in depressive disorders, it can also exist independently or alongside other mental health conditions, chronic illness, trauma, or persistent existential suffering. Some people are suicidal because they experience unbearable emotional or physical pain that isn't rooted in clinical depression. Others may feel suicidal due to life circumstances, loss of autonomy, terminal illness, or long term disenfranchisement and not because of a chemical imbalance or mood disorder.

So yes, while depression often includes suicidal ideation, not everyone who is suicidal is necessarily "just depressed," and treating depression alone does not always resolve suicidal thoughts. In fact, many people describe their suicidality as rational, consistent, and not dependent on mood episodes and something they've thought about even when they weren't in the depths of depressive despair.

 

[MathConspiracy]

You know, I've been suicidal for months and felt like shit for a long time. I have no motivation in anything but nobody actually believes that I'm fucking depressed. They just say that "it'll get better" and "you're just depressed because you're all alone in your room". I'm sick of pretending.

I just fucking want peace.

 

[polarcrow_]

I'm on anti-depressants, I stopped 'feeling depressed' a while ago. If anything having those depressive feelings stopped actually increased my suicidal intent because depression *was* my survival instinct, made me too scared, too worried and too upset to try anything even in my deepest moments. Without the depression it's just clarity for what I need to do

 

[FuneralCry]

No, I just see it as a response to existence, to me existence itself is the problem and I'd just always prefer to not exist than suffer in this torturous, futile existence where I'm just hoping and waiting to cease existing anyway, I'll always see existence as a mistake and it's one only non-existence can bring me peace from, non-existence would solve everything for me and is all I personally see as desirable, I just wish for no more pain and no more suffering, for me wanting to not exist is all I know. I just find existing so deeply undesirable, I personally see no point, benefit and value to existing rather I see existing as only suffering with no limit as to how much one can suffer, it's just horrific to me how a human can exist for so long just to die in agony from old age and the suffering of existing really is endless, I don't see how it's an illness not wanting to suffer, the fact that this existence was even imposed truly is the most terrible, dreadful tragedy to me.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I'm suicidal bc I failed big in life - that led to stress, burnout, a lack of money, more stress, depressive episodes and suicidality.

Suicidality isn't a "side effect" it's the result of (unbearable) life circumstances that we want to escape - imo most people wouldn't be suicidal anymore if there was a satisfying solution to their problem(s) that makes them suicidal.

Depression is also a result of (unbearable) life circumstances, stress, trauma, health issues and so on.

 

[(in)sane]

I share your feelings, but I've been told so many times that I wouldn't feel this way if it wasn't for my depression, I started doubting my own mind.

 

[davidtorez]

I'm suicidal bc I failed big in life - that led to stress, burnout, a lack of money, more stress, depressive episodes and suicidality.

Suicidality isn't a "side effect" it's the result of (unbearable) life circumstances that we want to escape - imo most people wouldn't be suicidal anymore if there was a satisfying solution to their problem(s) that makes them suicidal.

Depression is also a result of (unbearable) life circumstances, stress, trauma, health issues and so on.

I have to agree with this. For me being suicidal is a result of bullshit life circumstances and the nature of aging

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

My suicidality may have started as a result of my depression, but somewhere along the line it cut itself loose and now exists independently from my mental/emotional state. In other words, no matter how I'm feeling, I am still suicidal, as I believe it's the most rational, beneficial choice I could make for my current and future selves.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's trickier than that. It's hard to imagine someone deriliously happy committing suicide. But, how about this: Someone goes through an extremely rough patch where things get so bad, they consider suicide. Maybe they would be diagnosed with depression, maybe not. Regardless though- let's say in this case, they somehow recover. To the point where they are reasonable happy or, at least more at peace with living. Does that mean their ideation vanishes entirely? Perhaps not. It may linger on as an idea- an option they still feel open to. They may fear things sliding back down again. They may simply feel that life is reasonable now but, perhaps still not entirely worth all the effort they are putting in. So- are they actually still 'depressed' or, are they logically thinking- I'm not willing to go through that shit again and, perhaps life in general isn't worth the upkeep?

It's up to the psychologists to figure out whether depression is an actual illness and who actually has it. Whether it changes our brains- perhaps permanently. I truly wish they'd get a wiggle on! The diagnosis for mental illnesses seem way too whoolly to me.

In the past, I've been diagnosed with mild to moderate depression. I've had ideation for 35 years though- since I was 10. Can someone even be depressed for that long? I'm reasonably high functioning too. I can hold a job, look after myself etc. I've been happier than I am now and, a whole lot sadder. Ideation has followed throughout all of it.

I wonder if ideation is in fact a whole other 'illness'. I feel as if it's like that line from The Matrix: 'A splinter in your mind'. Once it's there, I wonder if it ever really shifts.

Truthfully, it pisses me off, them always linking ideation with mental illness. Plus, linking mental illness with mental incompetency. It's not that I'm entirely oppossed to a diagnosis or, that I believe it's impossible for a mental illness to affect competency. However, I think it's far more nuanced than that.

More than that though, it's that many of us are still expected to work! Make decisions regarding our and other's lives. I suspect the moment we start talking about ideation openly though, our mental competency would be questioned. If we're truly mentally incompetent then, surely- we deserve to be on benefits. Why expect us to work if we're that unstable? How many depressed police officers, transport drivers, surgeons are there? People directly responsible for other people surviving (or not.)

I don't think those in power should be able to have their cake and eat it- as it were. Either we're a bunch of crazy people who are too mentally incompetent to be able to work- Why trust us with responsibility at all? Maybe we do have ideation and/ or mental illness. Doesn't mean we're necessarily not capable of rational thought though. In which case- we can demonstrate the ability to work and make decisions for ourselves- which should include the decision to die.

The other issue is- Whether ideation stems from mental illness or not, if they can't reliably cure it, it's a problem. If they can't even provide people with a reasonable quality of life then- their definitions seem less important. This person is suffering. You can't seem to ease that for them so- now what? You just leave them suffering? Great.

It's so weird when it comes to animal euthanasia. We don't understand their language to even know whether they are suffering enough to want to die. Yet, we make the decision for them. Are we really so distrustful of our fellow human beings that when they beg and plead and insist that their lives are that painful- What? We don't believe them? It's weird. Like- it's the 'crazy' making you 'think' that. Well ok- fix the 'crazy' then. Oh, we can't.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

My suicidality may have started as a result of my depression, but somewhere along the line it cut itself loose and now exists independently from my mental/emotional state. In other words, no matter how I'm feeling, I am still suicidal, as I believe it's the most rational, beneficial choice I could make for my current and future selves.

I think the longer we have suicidal thoughts the more they are "burnt" into our way of thinking and thus become permanently present. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to "delete" them again even if things get better.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I think the longer we have suicidal thoughts the more they are "burnt" into our way of thinking and thus become permanently present. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to "delete" them again even if things get better.

"Burnt into our way of thinking" is a good way of putting it; I think this is why I have this feeling that "a line was crossed" and I can never go back to the way things were before my first encounter with suicidality, even if my circumstances were to substantially improve.

 

[AreWeWinning]

I'm suicidal and not depressed. I guess, that's in the 'I'm just suicidal' category? I mean, I'm able to wake up in the morning, I still exercise, because it makes me feel good, I feel energetic, I don't have mood swings, I don't feel lethargic, and so on. Suicide is a rational decision for me taking into consideration my circumstances and overall life experience. I'm not saying I don't feel sad about it, which I do! It's extremely disappointing, and feels bad that it has to be this way. But I'm not depressed.

'Normal' people will view any suicidal behaviour as abnormal. They can't fathom the idea that someone doesn't want to live. It just doesn't compute. They view life as inherently valuable and something that must be preserved at all costs, and anything and everything that rejects this idea is 'bad', 'abnormal', or 'evil'. And no amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise. If they can't blame it on something else, then they'll say it's an illness and call it 'depression'. After all, it has to be something if it can't be a rational choice.

There might be cases where it's really a chemical imbalance in the brain or whatever, and it's a real illness, but I think those are rare. Many times it's just the person's circumstances and experiences that is behind it, and the fact that they decide it's not worth it to fight, to push back, and to carry on anymore. Whether that way of thinking is a 'chemical imbalance in the brain', or just a rational decision, I guess, that's what the debate is about.

But based on that logic, we could also label every person who can't or doesn't do what we want with an illness or condition. Which we also often do by the way.

 

[Linda]

I want to see something so my question is, are you suicidal because you're depressed, or are you just suicidal and depressed? Everyone keeps telling me that suicidality is a symptom of depression and not what I would want if I wasn't depressed.

Depression does make you more likely to be suicidal. But many people are suicidal without beiing depressed.

 

[rs929]

I think most suicidal people are or have been depressed. But there are exceptions

 

[OptingOutSmiling]

Being suicidal did not develop because of me feeling depressed, it happened as a result of a life event. I guess because I've been postponing my ctb, it may have caused depression and/or anxiety since. I'm not planning on seeing a medical professional, so I've not been diagnosed.

 

[davidtorez]

I think the longer we have suicidal thoughts the more they are "burnt" into our way of thinking and thus become permanently present. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to "delete" them again even if things get better.

Definitely have to agree with this. At which point suicidality turns more into a belief rather than a mere feeling

 

[SomewhatLoved]

It is a symptom of depression, but not exclusive to depression. Same with nausea. Most people would probably associate it with food poisoning or motion sickness, but many other things can cause it too.

 

[sanction]

In short, I'm suicidal because we have to do 9 to 5 job for 40 years, just to get old, sick, and die in the end

Including other things such as dealing with shitty people, and the overall hassles of everyday life, which requires so much endless maintenance

It's like in the end.... after all this work, hassle, effort, and stress... what percentage of our life is even positive?

Feels like 90% of it is just bullshit. Especially since we'll end up dying either way, mind as well just get it over with sooner, to save the unnecessary headache

Whatever term or label society want to use (such as depression or mental illness), I basically just see it as a natural reaction to life itself

For most people, it's just a pain in the ass. Not worth it

 

[unworthy_]

You can be depressed but not suicidal or both. I was quite depressed last time but never wanted to leave this world. But now I feel I do. At my age, I feel like everything is too late. I cannot see any growth and changes in myself anymore. Everything is set, fixed, preconditioned to the way I live. I feel no way out thus I became suicidal.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Suicidality is definitively not strictly a side effect/symptom of depression.

A more general wording would be: One cause of suicidality is an incurable desease, like cancer, old age or depression.

Of course, there are also other reasons:

The self-sacrifice for the community, like suicide bombers, kamikaze or not wanting to be a burden to society, as it was common among primitive people.

External reasons, like lovesickness, over-indebtedness or a lost war.

Expectations of the community, like dishonouring, before or after a rape

Sexual reasons, like extreme masochism or autassassinophilia.

This is what sprung to my mind, with a little research you will find scientifically validated statistics.

 

[aiyuxhan]

I'm suicidal because of chronic pain 24/7 and chronic illnesses. :/ My body feels like a torture chamber and a prison. :(

 

[gooblet]

There is so many reasons someone is suicidal it's impossible to list. You could be suicidal because you are struggling with an addiction or you feel hopeless. You could be so lonely you can't take it anymore. "When I talk with others I'm fine, but talking to myself is what will kill me"

 

[monolog]

Anxiety + anhedonia