Isn't Telling Someone How To CTB Illegal?

[Zoloft Muncher]

Im pro choice but Im also worried about this. The last thing I want to happen is the police knocking on my door. For context I live in the USA.

 

[xxRoro]

I think it's complicated. Well we all don't encourage others to ctb this site only provides resources in general. I don't think that if you only show people the existing resources is illegal

 

[Linda]

Giving factual information is not illegal. For example, the statement "If you consume half a gram of potassium cyanide you will certainly die" is factual (and true), and you are free to say that to anyone.
What you can not do is say something like "I think you should consume half a gram of potassium cyanide". Nor can you say "I think you should ctb". A decision to ctb, or a decision on what method to use to ctb, can only be made by the person concerned, and it would be neither legal nor ethical to push them towards such a decision.
It would also be OK to say something like "You are planning to die by jumping from a 30 foot high building, but from that height you are quite likely to survive but with serious injuries. If you want to be almost certain of dying in that way you would need to find a taller building. A fall from 100 feet or more with a landing on a hard surface such as concrete is rarely survivable." Again, this is sticking to facts. It is not recommending that they go find a 100 foot tall building and jump off it.
Discussion of suicide methods is OK, provided it follows the kinds of principles I have just tried to outline.

 

[crystal_meth97]

It depends on the context. I highly doubt anything can happen if you offer information here as long as you keep it factual and don't actually say "do it, you should do it, it would be the perfect solution, so just do it" or things like that. However, if you do encourage a person IRL, it may have legal consequences. See this for reference: https://people.com/crime/michelle-carter-trial-gallery-key-moments-conrad-roy-suicide/

 

[abchia]

Giving factual information is not illegal. For example, the statement "If you consume half a gram of potassium cyanide you will certainly die" is factual (and true), and you are free to say that to anyone.
What you can not do is say something like "I think you should consume half a gram of potassium cyanide". Nor can you say "I think you should ctb". A decision to ctb, or a decision on what method to use to ctb, can only be made by the person concerned, and it would be neither legal nor ethical to push them towards such a decision.
It would also be OK to say something like "You are planning to die by jumping from a 30 foot high building, but from that height you are quite likely to survive but with serious injuries. If you want to be almost certain of dying in that way you would need to find a taller building. A fall from 100 feet or more with a landing on a hard surface such as concrete is rarely survivable." Again, this is sticking to facts. It is not recommending that they go find a 100 foot tall building and jump off it.
Discussion of suicide methods is OK, provided it follows the kinds of principles I have just tried to outline.

You worded this perfectly. Someone needs to tell this to the haters of this forum out there

 

[BIGMIKE]

Im pro choice but Im also worried about this. The last thing I want to happen is the police knocking on my door. For context I live in the USA.

Telling someone HOW TO catch the bus is fine, that's a philosophical discussion if anyone asks.
Telling someone TO catch the bus? Illegal/manslaughter in rare cases.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Hard so say. If you provide someone with the information on how to and the means to acquire the necessary materials, could that qualify as assisting in suicide (which is illegal in most states even if you're a physician with, say, a terminally ill patient)? I'd need a lawyer experienced in such cases to know where exactly the border is. Certainly, telling someone how to buy a gun in the US is absolutely not illegal, but with chemicals I could see it getting fuzzy.

Certainly, if particularly investigative authorities track an actual case and find that the method of suicide was provided by someone, say, on an online forum and who also helped them acquire the means, that might get a little heated. Even if you ultimately come out of it without actual legal trouble, I could imagine upset loved ones pressing charges. I certainly think you could pretty realistically argue that the subject might not have committed suicide if they had not had that information.

That said, I don't think you can realistically get prosecuted for generally sharing information online, since enforcing that would probably result in an unmanageable quantity of mass incarceration with a lot of legal homework to pursue.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

The Michelle Carter verdict surprised many lawyers as abhorrent as she was. She literally told him to get back into his truck when he had doubts. So I think the kind of information shared here is okay as far as legal liability goes.

 

[red24]

I think in England is illegal to carry a fish in the Parliament. There was a book on Internet some time ago I saw it, with illegal old laws, like, illegal kissing a girl Sunday, or other stupid things. Laws are ridiculous anyway, unless you talk about Moses law, do not kill, do not lie under oath, do not fuck someone else's woman, those are valid, but all the rest are just moonshine.

 

[Esokabat]

You worded this perfectly. Someone needs to tell this to the haters of this forum out there

On which thread those haters can be found? I have not seen one pro-life post on this forum since I registered. I hear about them but I haven't actually seen them on this forum. On the other hand, I do see a lot of people swing to the completely opposite direction and suggesting that all humanity should CTB as a moral obligation and the entire human race should disappear by people no longer having kids. I would like to see this forum pro-choice, neither pro-life, nor pro-death. But if someone would do a meta analysis of this forum and add up the numbers, I think currently the pro-death camp would come out on top as they are so extremely vocal, generating a surprisingly large amount of content and they also seem to be the most passionate about their rigid belief system

 

[vitbar]

You are US I know. Here in the UK it probably is illegal, for anyone interested.

• the suspect did an act capable of encouraging or assisting the suicide or attempted suicide of another person; and
• the suspect's act was intended to encourage or assist suicide or an attempt at suicide.
• "Another person" ... need not be a specific person and the suspect does not have to know or even be able to identify that other person. The offence of encouraging or assisting suicide can be committed even where a suicide or an attempt at suicide does not take place.
• In the context of websites which promote suicide, the suspect may commit the offence of encouraging or assisting suicide if he or she intends that one or more of his or her readers will commit or attempt to commit suicide.

Policy for Prosecutors in Respect of Cases of Encouraging or Assisting Suicide

The last quoted point makes me unsure, but most acts are essentially considered the same whether done online or not.

 

[QueerMelancholy]

"Proving specific intent would require the prosecution to prove that the defendant intended to bring about a specific consequence through his or her actions, or that he or she perform the action with a wrongful purpose. i.e. demonstrating intent by showing the degree of certainty a defendant had that his or her conduct would cause a certain result."

"Conspiracy is a crime that occurs when two or more people agree to break the law and then act on that agreement. The agreement must include the intent to achieve its goal, and most U.S. jurisdictions also require an overt act to further the agreement."

I assume it's all about intent. But we have freedom of speech in the USA that is pretty well protected by the Constitution. Now if you go around encouraging people to commit crimes or incite violence that I believe falls under conspiracy to commit crime. Providing people with information is protected under freedom of speech.

"Freedom of speech is the right to articulate opinions and ideas without interference, retaliation or punishment from the government. The term "speech" is interpreted broadly and includes spoken and written words as well as symbolic speech (e.g., what a person wears, reads, performs, protests, and more). The First Amendment protects speech even when the ideas put forth are thought to be illogical, offensive, immoral or hateful."

Civil court though? That's another bag of rats. Could a family sue you if you provided information to someone that ended in their CTB? Possibly.

"If it can be demonstrated that another's actions or lack of action contributed to the suicide, pursuing a wrongful death claim may be viable. The decision to file a lawsuit in such cases is deeply personal and often fraught with hesitation. However, it can also be a way to hold responsible parties accountable."

 

[abchia]

On which thread those haters can be found? I have not seen one pro-life post on this forum since I registered. I hear about them but I haven't actually seen them on this forum. On the other hand, I do see a lot of people swing to the completely opposite direction and suggesting that all humanity should CTB as a moral obligation and the entire human race should disappear by people no longer having kids. I would like to see this forum pro-choice, neither pro-life, nor pro-death. But if someone would do a meta analysis of this forum and add up the numbers, I think currently the pro-death camp would come out on top as they are so extremely vocal, generating a surprisingly large amount of content and they also seem to be the most passionate about their rigid belief system

Not on this site, but on other social media platforms I've seen people talk about this site