Making a plan, the point of no return

[ambivalent_thespian]

kinda bored and this thought crossed my mind. why do so many mental health practitioners consider making a suicide plan the point of no return? Logically speaking, i suppose it makes sense. You make a plan, therefore you intend to act on it.

But I know many people, myself included, know how we WOULD ctb, but don't intend on actually doing it. And even that sentence has gotten me in trouble before. Surely a bit of morbid curiosity doesn't necessitate an emergency action?

I think there are levels a person can reach.
1. I am unhappy and dissatisfied with my life.
2. I am unhappy and dissatisfied and want a way out.
3. I wouldn't mind not waking up tomorrow
4. I wouldn't mind getting hit by a bus (etc)
5. I actively want to end my life and take the opportunity if it was given to me.
6. I actively want to end my life and I am willing to do what it takes to make that happen.
7. I actively want to end my life and have a realistically available option planned out.

Maybe there's more, maybe you could combine the stages. I just think it's an interesting thing to muse on. What are your thoughts, and, bias notwithstanding, when would you consider someone to be in need of emergency aid.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think maybe the major worry for them is availability. Say someone says- I want to kill myself via a gun- Do you have a gun? No- They can probably relax. If they're talking about jumping and they have a specific place in mind and can get there- they're going to worry more I imagine.

I agree though- I think there are many stages. I expect many of us here are in an actively suicidal state. We are in the process or, have already collated all we need to do it- yet, we may not for years. Some of us might never do it.

Do you think we could predict who will and won't actually do it though? I don't think we can and we likely 'know' each other better than a few minute conversation.

I suppose they're taking a gamble though and they'll want to bet the way they don't take the hit. If you've suggested to them you are serious enough about taking your life that you've made a plan- why would they feel confident you won't act on it? They don't know you at the end of the day.

I do get what you're saying but, we tend to live in a culture of blame. If very clear warning signs were there but ignored- people start jumping up and down as to why more wasn't done- especially family members.

To be honest- I lean the other way. It puzzles me more when people seem shocked that when they ring a 'suicide prevention' hotline that- that's exactly what they'll get! Someone on the other end of the line trying to prevent their suicide by any means necessary.

It probably would be better if we could have more places like this. Where people could be honest about how they felt without being sectioned but, the majority of the world doesn't seem to want that. Put it this way- would many of our families be ok with us ringing a helpline that said: 'I'm sorry you're suffering. You have the right to end it if you want.' Not saying you would endorse that of course.

Out of curiosity though- what do you think would work better? Personally, I think psyche wards sound like they have the potential to do a lot more harm than good. I definitely think there need to be various stages of ward to care for the different severities of illness/ ideation.

I'm not sure how thorough a job of assessing can be done over a short phone call though. Is it reasonable to expect them to gamble a person won't take their life if they'll be under investigation if they do?

 

[ambivalent_thespian]

I think maybe the major worry for them is availability. Say someone says- I want to kill myself via a gun- Do you have a gun? No- They can probably relax. If they're talking about jumping and they have a specific place in mind and can get there- they're going to worry more I imagine.

I agree though- I think there are many stages. I expect many of us here are in an actively suicidal state. We are in the process or, have already collated all we need to do it- yet, we may not for years. Some of us might never do it.

Do you think we could predict who will and won't actually do it though? I don't think we can and we likely 'know' each other better than a few minute conversation.

I suppose they're taking a gamble though and they'll want to bet the way they don't take the hit. If you've suggested to them you are serious enough about taking your life that you've made a plan- why would they feel confident you won't act on it? They don't know you at the end of the day.

I do get what you're saying but, we tend to live in a culture of blame. If very clear warning signs were there but ignored- people start jumping up and down as to why more wasn't done- especially family members.

To be honest- I lean the other way. It puzzles me more when people seem shocked that when they ring a 'suicide prevention' hotline that- that's exactly what they'll get! Someone on the other end of the line trying to prevent their suicide by any means necessary.

It probably would be better if we could have more places like this. Where people could be honest about how they felt without being sectioned but, the majority of the world doesn't seem to want that. Put it this way- would many of our families be ok with us ringing a helpline that said: 'I'm sorry you're suffering. You have the right to end it if you want.' Not saying you would endorse that of course.

Out of curiosity though- what do you think would work better? Personally, I think psyche wards sound like they have the potential to do a lot more harm than good. I definitely think there need to be various stages of ward to care for the different severities of illness/ ideation.

I'm not sure how thorough a job of assessing can be done over a short phone call though. Is it reasonable to expect them to gamble a person won't take their life if they'll be under investigation if they do?

I don't necessarily think there is a better option. Of course, there are always worse options ('classic' asylums), but I think what most suicidal people need is empathy.

And any shmuck can go to the 988 center and go "omg I'm such an empath, I'd be sooo perfect for this job." But I'm not talking about that kind of thing.

Think of everyone in your circle right now and imagine if you met them at their rock bottom. You'd definitely view them in a different light, and might not have clicked with them the same way in this hypothetical universe. That's what the 988 is for, an easy out for your rock bottom by confiding in a stranger. But that stranger will not understand the nuances of your life, you're just a voice on a phone or a picture on a screen.

Or, I suppose, the guy they sit next to in algebra.

My point is, a stranger cannot empathize with you in the same way that a close friend can. A suicidal person generally needs someone who can look at them and say "I know you are struggling right now, I want to be there for you. What can we do to fix this together?"

Unfortunately, most people don't have someone like that in their lives, and those that do might feel unworthy of that kind of support.

I'm aware that I might sound very pro-life in this discussion. While I don't advocate for ending your own life, I don't wish to demonize the action or the people who choose that route.


tldr better solution is familiar empathy rather than distant empathy, but that's not an implementable improvement.