Many people in western highly-developed countries don't appreciate the systems in which they live

[noname223]

I could imagine I get a backlash for that. But I try to be precisely.

There was once a self-help book which I have read. A rich dude told me more or less to stop complaining about my life because people in other countries have it worse. He explicitly made this comparison also concerning money. He said if you are poor in Germany you are still way better off then in most people in other countries. This comparison made me quite mad. For me my future poverty is one of my big reasons why I need to ctb. There is not only "absolute poverty" there is also "relative poverty". I think having no money increases the suicidality for many people. I am extremely anxious about it and my life quality will drop severely in the future.
Capitalism has huge flaws and many people are forced to wage slavery. There are probably many people who kill themselves because of it.

I want to express with that story that this argument if it is not nuanced can hurt people. And show your own arrogance. Though I want to say why the statement in the title is still accurate in the right context.

I find it scary that many people don't appreciate democracy. I am always shocked when people say yeah maybe another form of government would be more efficient. They believe there would be the need for a strong leader. There are even educated and intelligent people who believe that. This is quite dangerous. The root for that is in my opinion some people are excluded from our society. There is a lack of respect for some people in our societies, Moreover there is a lack of transparency or forms of corruptions. A good example for that would be the pharma lobby in the US. But I don't get the logic of these people. Just because there is corruption in our system we shall turn to authoritarians who are even way more corrupt? This does not make any sense.

Look at Putin and his oligarch friends. Shall this be our future? Or look at China. On the outside they claim to be socialists but in reality they represent Manchester capitalism in their country.

Many people don't appreciate freedom of speech, freedom to critize your own government or peace. Many people take this all for granted. I have met some refugees during my numerous clinic stays. There you hear stories about real unfreedom. They were stunned that they don't have to bribe bureaucrats in order to get things done. There are so many people who claim we would already live in dictatorships. This is all nonsense. These people should live a year in real authoritarian countries. Some of them sympathize with Russia, China etc. which is quite paradoxical.

Maybe you could think this is all a big attack against right-wing populists. But there also many left-wing populists who are way too nostalgic about Marxism and socialism. There are groups in my country who are against the increasing of the military budget. (many left-wingers) Yeah what has to happen so that we finally wake up? Does Putin have to invade Poland first? I have the feeling some people would still call for pacifism and negotiations with Putin if he beheaded civilians in the open streets of our capital.


What are your thoughts on it? I would have given a trigger warning that this thread contains controversial political topics but the title already was way too long. I could well imagine that some people probably dislike my political stances. But it is better to be true to yourself instead wanting to appease everyone.

 

[bad luck]

Democracy does not exist. Only in Switzerland. In the other countries it is a partitocracy. All over the world money sends. Don't get your hopes up because the first world is just a set that is supported by money.

 

[noname223]

Democracy does not exist. Only in Switzerland. In the other countries it is a partitocracy. All over the world money sends. Don't get your hopes up because the first world is just a set that is supported by money.

I don't really get why Switzerland should be an exception? There are also many poor people in Switzerland and inqequalty. Or maybe you are refering to direct democracy? But this still would not prevent that money also rules in Switzerland.

 

[bad luck]

I don't really get why Switzerland should be an exception? There are also many poor people in Switzerland and inqequalty. Or maybe you are refering to direct democracy? But this still would not prevent that money also rules in Switzerland.

Yes, I was referring to direct democracy. It is the highest I see in the world now.

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

Write a book in response telling him to stop enjoying his life since people in other countries have it better.

 

[symphony]

Write a book in response telling him to stop enjoying his life since people in other countries have it better.

It doesn't seem at all to me that OP is making the argument "you can't be sad because some people have it worse". OP never claimed that we're not allowed to be suicidal because we have it so good (relatively) or that we're not allowed to criticize the systems we have. As I understand it, all he's saying is that we should appreciate it when we do have it good.

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

It doesn't seem at all to me that OP is making the argument "you can't be sad because some people have it worse". OP never claimed that we're not allowed to be suicidal because we have it so good (relatively) or that we're not allowed to criticize the systems we have

OP didn't make that argument, I'm talking about the the rich author of the "self help book" he mentioned

 

[symphony]

OP didn't make that argument, I'm talking about the the rich author of the "self help book" he mentioned

Gotcha. Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I can't stay home all day playing video games and binge eating/watching for free. The current system must be thrown out entirely.

I'm serious.

 

[IsThisTheEnd?]

I have to be careful because of what is happening to the poor Ukrainian people.
But the way we live in the west is its own type of extremism. We believe we're so great but we're not, we're taken in by this extreme capitalism and lack of society brought up by TV etc. Its made us sick. People in countries who we consider a bit backwards? have it better.

Life in the west - especially anglo countries is not great. We are false fed a load of hollywood garbage that doesn't go anywhere. We are not allowed to question it. We go with the mob or pay the price.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

People in countries who we consider a bit backwards? have it better.

I just wonder which countries do you consider a bit backwards and what exactly do you think their people have better?

Maybe some people just aren't fit for the Western society and would do better in some different culture, so they complain...

 

[ThePaleWhiteLight]

Western society is basically a finely tuned bureaucracy. It exists to enable the global exploitation of the "developing world" foe the benefit of its own inhabitants. There's nothing to appreciate, because it is a system build on compulsory labor (even "egalitarian" programmes like Social Security demand and contribution). I don't want to be part of such a hypocritical system.

 

[IsThisTheEnd?]

Not what I consider backward - more how my country considers itself better than other european countries and mob rule has finally made it clear.
Lets face it. The countries that spout democracy and capitalism have given us a totally pointless life devoid of any purpose.

Western society is basically a finely tuned bureaucracy. It exists to enable the global exploitation of the "developing world" foe the benefit of its own inhabitants. There's nothing to appreciate, because it is a system build on compulsory labor (even "egalitarian" programmes like Social Security demand and contribution). I don't want to be part of such a hypocritical system.

Not only that but the UK got rich from child labour and slavery but this is all hushed up. We're a guiding light a beacon. The effects of this serious class divide are still felt today. We rely on european labour. We turned our nose up at europe. We have extreme health and safety laws but kids go around stabbing each other.
I find it a cold clinical society devoid of any purpose.

 

[Depressed Cat]

I've said it before, and I will say it again. Modern, post WW II Western civilisation is the highest level of societal evolution ever achieved by humankind. It's far, far better than any so-called "civilisation" in human history, and certainly much better than the crappy societies of the uncouth Third World.

By no means is Western civilisation perfect, of course not, but it's simply the best humankind has ever seen till now. Nothing even comes close! Many people who live in the civilised countries of the West (& the few in the East on par with the West) simply take the things they have for granted. They are ungrateful grumblers who have absolutely no idea of how lucky they are.

I live in a Third World country. I'm not well off, but luckily I'm not poor either. People who consider themselves the working poor in the West, those who toil away at minimum or near minimum wage jobs have a tough life, no doubt, but their economic difficulties simply pale in comparison to the poor in my country.

The worst thing about the Third World? The sheer lack of avenues for upward socio-economic mobility! An average Joe who is a plumber or construction worker in the West may or may not be able to make it big in his own life, but his bright son or daughter can attend the best universities and make it in life. There are plenty of avenues for upward socio-economic mobility in the civilised countries.

Wealth is often generational wealth across the world, but poverty happens to be generational poverty in the Third World. There are very few avenues for upward socio-economic mobility in the uncouth Third World, and one of them happens to be crime, which comes with its own risks.

Those who complain about not having it good in the civilised countries only need to look at the hordes of economic migrants arriving on their shores everyday. Why do so many people from the Third World take such great risks, often risking their lives to make that perilous journey to a civilised country? The answer is hope! The civilised world offers them hope for a better life for themselves and their kids, something that their own Third World countries do not. Even if they have to take great risks, the reward of living life in a civilised country is worth taking those risks.

So yes, I agree with the OP that many people in the developed countries simply do not appreciate how lucky they are to live in civilised societies.

 

[Nolan96]

Freedom of speech and democracy don't exist anymore in the US anyway, even compared to somewhere like Russia or China. We cancelled that because it was too problematic. And whatever vestiges of first-world civility are still around are being gleefully deconstructed and mocked by the sick-minded leftists, who view it all as bourgeois white-people bullshit. And of course there's noone and nothing in this world they hate more than kind, polite white people. These leftists have all the power. There's nothing meaningfully standing in their way. It's totalitarian. I have no appreciation for this fucking deranged country anymore and I have no reason to. I'd be thrilled actually if one of those hateful skinhead Russians we're always hearing about (still not sure if they actually exist) bashed my skull in for me being a fag, because I would rather someone like that have the pleasure of killing me and ending my suffering than a scumbag American leftist.

 

[Julgran]

I could imagine I get a backlash for that. But I try to be precisely.

There was once a self-help book which I have read. A rich dude told me more or less to stop complaining about my life because people in other countries have it worse. He explicitly made this comparison also concerning money. He said if you are poor in Germany you are still way better off then in most people in other countries. This comparison made me quite mad. For me my future poverty is one of my big reasons why I need to ctb. There is not only "absolute poverty" there is also "relative poverty". I think having no money increases the suicidality for many people. I am extremely anxious about it and my life quality will drop severely in the future.
Capitalism has huge flaws and many people are forced to wage slavery. There are probably many people who kill themselves because of it.

I want to express with that story that this argument if it is not nuanced can hurt people. And show your own arrogance. Though I want to say why the statement in the title is still accurate in the right context.

I find it scary that many people don't appreciate democracy. I am always shocked when people say yeah maybe another form of government would be more efficient. They believe there would be the need for a strong leader. There are even educated and intelligent people who believe that. This is quite dangerous. The root for that is in my opinion some people are excluded from our society. There is a lack of respect for some people in our societies, Moreover there is a lack of transparency or forms of corruptions. A good example for that would be the pharma lobby in the US. But I don't get the logic of these people. Just because there is corruption in our system we shall turn to authoritarians who are even way more corrupt? This does not make any sense.

Look at Putin and his oligarch friends. Shall this be our future? Or look at China. On the outside they claim to be socialists but in reality they represent Manchester capitalism in their country.

Many people don't appreciate freedom of speech, freedom to critize your own government or peace. Many people take this all for granted. I have met some refugees during my numerous clinic stays. There you hear stories about real unfreedom. They were stunned that they don't have to bribe bureaucrats in order to get things done. There are so many people who claim we would already live in dictatorships. This is all nonsense. These people should live a year in real authoritarian countries. Some of them sympathize with Russia, China etc. which is quite paradoxical.

Maybe you could think this is all a big attack against right-wing populists. But there also many left-wing populists who are way too nostalgic about Marxism and socialism. There are groups in my country who are against the increasing of the military budget. (many left-wingers) Yeah what has to happen so that we finally wake up? Does Putin have to invade Poland first? I have the feeling some people would still call for pacifism and negotiations with Putin if he beheaded civilians in the open streets of our capital.


What are your thoughts on it? I would have given a trigger warning that this thread contains controversial political topics but the title already was way too long. I could well imagine that some people probably dislike my political stances. But it is better to be true to yourself instead wanting to appease everyone.

What's Democracy if not a veiled attempt at siphoning money from the population to the politicians, and living a posh life style at the expense of people in less fortunate nations...? I mean this from the left-wing Democratic party kind of way. However, a Repbublic is also "democratic", but in a different way.

I live in the so-called "democratic" nation of Sweden, and all I see is authorities that don't care about anything but trying to get people to view them as farvourable for dothing nothing useful.

 

[freedompass]

It's human nature to take stuff for granted and focus on what they don't like rather than what they do. There are evolutionary reasons for the latter, I mean in any quest for a goal or ideal you want to eliminate whatever detracts from that, right? Personally I am fully cognisant and appreciative of my material advantages here in the U.K. Reading and talking online with people from all over the world is a constant reminder. Hell we are way better off in terms of the government safety net and healthcare than the US despite its prodigious wealth.

There are downsides of course as others have mentioned. A culture of individualism doesn't favour the weaker or more vulnerable members of society. We are forced to package and sell ourselves as a commodity on an open labour market, and to work for faceless companies completely removed from the 'fruits' of our labour. We are taunted and egged on by a relentless onslaught of media images of perfection. In other words, everything in our society is almost calculated to cause unhappiness and dissatisfaction which is then pathologised and blamed on faulty brain chemicals.

'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society'. Jiddu Krishnamurti