Discussion Optimistic nihilism

[ilovecats]

Optimistic nihilism is as dangerous as it is beneficial (in some cases).

For those who don't know, it implies that we should do whatever we want because it doesn't matter, changing the "Why should I struggle if it is for nothing" view into "Why shouldn't I do anything I want if it doesn't matter", ultimately, giving them a reason to keep going.

But this way of thinking comes with its own costs. Why should an individual not only stop caring about himself but also about others around him? Why care about good or bad? Why care about morality? After all, they are just temporary human concepts with no effect on the objective reality of the universe. A normal nihilist could still be aware of these points, but optimistic nihilism heavily highlights them and even encourages them to some degree. Luckily for us, the vast majority of people are still chained by human nature, but I can't imagine how much worse our world could be if that was not the case.

I'm aware that it gave many people a reason to keep living. I believe too that living a happy life is better than just not existing, but not everybody can, and for those people, the idea of doing whatever they want because it has no meaning anyway could sound like a way to express their hatred towards the world or a protest against our insignificance.

I know this might seem like nonsense, so feel free to disagree.

 

[Bardo]

I like the concept. I read today of the super black holes that were just discovered. My heart skipped a beat, I tell ya. The only thing better than that would be to learn we're headed straight for them at a high rate of speed. Fills me with glee.

 

[dgdgtth]

I usually find peace, not despair, in knowing that nothing matters. If everything is meaningless, and my own existence is meaningless, then my problems are, too. My existence is, in the broad timeline of the whole universe, shorter than a blink.

 

[FlameWhisperer]

This is, in a way, how I live my life nowadays, and perhaps it plays a part on why I am still alive until today.

But this way of thinking comes with its own costs. Why should an individual not only stop caring about himself but also about others around him? Why care about good or bad? Why care about morality? After all, they are just temporary human concepts with no effect on the objective reality of the universe

I had those same questions made inside my mind when I first started living by optimistic nihilism. And my answer is what prevents me of further diving in a more "dark" path in life: "Because I live in a society, and I am but one individual, whereas a society is made by so many more, it is only logical for me to follow their own set of rules in order to not make myself a target." What does this imply? Giving some hypothetical examples.

I know for a fact that, if I disregard my friend's problem and tell them I don't care, that will be considered a bad action on my side, they will resent me, and probably even cease their relationship with me. Given I call them my friend, then it means I consider important to have them around, so that is not a desirable outcome for me, therefore, I won't do it - even if that was what I felt like saying at that moment, or even if I think all is meaningless. Because, no matter how much everything might be meaningless, I still want, in the present, their presence in my life for whatever reasons I might have for that.

Another hypothetical example, more extreme and negative (accordingly to human concepts): If everything is meaningless, then it does not matter if I kill someone, or hurt them badly. But I know, because I live in a society, that those things are illegal and will have consequences such as incarceration (prison), and if I deem prison is not a desirable consequence for myself, then I won't do it, in order to avoid the obvious consequence, even though I think everything is meaningless.

These are just hypothetical, more direct and/or extreme examples, but essentially, what prevents me from thinking in a way such as "If everything is meaningless, I can do whatever I want, even the most forbidden things" is thinking of the consequences that can bring me in the present, because no matter how much things might be meaningless, what I will experience going through the consequences, while I am alive, won't be meaningless to me, as I am living them, feeling them in my skin, and I can recognize when a consequence is desirable or not.

Why would I put myself in a position I risk negative feedback, when I can do the opposite, and at least bring whatever the joy is possible, and if none is possible, at least it won't be negative? I suppose that's it...

 

[Kore]

I was about to start a thread on this topic but seen it's already been started… for anyone who doesn't know what optimistic nihilism is, here's a good quick vid explaining:



Replying to OP, I do agree that this ideology can become dangerous. Because after all, if nothing matters, if good and evil are human constructs, if we can literally do anything without any 'real' consequences, why not see what it's like to steal, hurt or even murder someone? Or even in a simpler sense, if everybody suddenly began only doing what makes THEM happy, because nobody and nothing else matters, then yea… the world would be a lot more chaotic and depressing.

But what I like about the video above is that it highlights we are in control of our own purpose, of our own assignments of morality. While nothing may matter, I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that it causes unnecessary pain and trauma to others if we harm or kill someone. I think we can also all agree that going out of your way to put a smile on somebody's face feels good to YOU, and therefore is good for both you and the person you made smile.

Optimistic nihilism could actually be a new world order… imagine if *everyone* realized the truth? And then decided that the only purpose we should care about is to enjoy our own time, as well as trying to help others enjoy their own time? Not that we'd ever be able to break down the systems and societies that exist right now anyway, so the above is just a useless pipe dream. And let's also not forget that despite good and evil being human constructs, there are genuine shitty people on earth (a fuck lot of them) who would hurt people BECAUSE it makes them feel good… leading back to the first point I made.

I'm not going anywhere with this exactly, other than that I discovered this new thing which may help me get through my days. Knowing nothing matters is, soul destroying. But knowing that BECAUSE nothing matters, I may as well try to enjoy myself? That helps a bit tbh.

What doesn't help is that in this society of shit, we can't just skip off and try to live a fun life. We need 'money' to buy even the most basic of things, like water. Sure we could all just head to a forest and build a hut next to a river, but how can you explore the world if you can't afford a plane ticket? I guess there are some people who would be happy to *just* have their forest. And good for them. For any of the rest of us, there is simply no choice but to stay in this cycle of shit and earn a few bucks. Living 5 days of hell for 2 days of partial freedom. But during those 2 days, why not try to have fun? Even if fun for you is spending all weekend gaming, or going out getting hella drunk, or jumping on a plane for a quick stop over somewhere… and hey, bonus points if you can make someone else smile a little during your own freedom.

Eh, ramble over.

TL;DR: yes everything is meaningless, but that in itself FREES us to choose how we spend our days. If we choose ours and others happiness, can only be a good thing right?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've wondered this myself- I wonder how many hedonistic, law breaking, maverick nihilists there are out there. Doing whatever the hell they want because nothing matters. I doubt they'll be on here... they're probably having way too much (illegal) fun. It is kind of curious though- given that nihilism could so easily go the hedonistic route, why do so many seem the most depressed? I guess because they discover it via feelings of hopelessness rather than reckless abandon. Plus- like you say- maybe we are still conditioned to comply too much.