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Jay Sea

Jay Sea

Member
Mar 23, 2023
41
Excerpt from On the Origin of God(s) By Means of Supernatural Selection: An Abstract

While many intuitively hold the Golden Rule as the guidance towards moral and ethical conducts of the highest possible standard, it has nevertheless been subjected to harsh criticisms from a variety of sources. The 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant, for instance, strongly rebukes the Golden Rule, and instead advocates for an alternative proposal of moral principles called the Categorical Imperatives. Those who search through various scholarly journals and articles today are more likely to find objections than support for the Golden Rule, as well as eager attempts by various commentators to prescribe their remedies to its perceived defects. Those who remain sceptical, or are critical of the Golden Rule will certainly find no shortages of intellectual company.

Broadly speaking, there appears to be two kinds of criticisms we could discern from various sources. The first of which centres on the problem that we had alluded to in earlier discussions: the fact that people are generally different from one another, each with their own sets of likes and dislikes, interests and ideals, motives and desires; in other words, everyone has their own unique set of preferences. As was previously discussed, the Golden Rule when read at the surface level, appears to passively permit, if not actively instruct, that anyone who chooses to abide by its rulings should reflect their own tastes and preferences upon others, or to refrain from imposing upon others what they do not wish to have done on themselves: want to receive kindness? Then one should be kind to others; do not want to be insulted? Then one should not insult others. While this may appear to be a reasonable interpretation based on a plain textual reading of the rule alone, it is easy to see how such an interpretation would be highly impractical and undesirable under certain circumstances.

Imagine a person who enjoys loud street parties at night and wants to be woken up for any such occasions, since she would want others to wake herself up if she was sleeping through a party, then she might be justified in waking up her neighbours had she been amongst the party attendees, this appears to be a permissible course of conduct based on a simple interpretation of the Golden Rule alone. As another example, imagine a religious zealot who is absolutely convinced of his religious beliefs, who also adopts the view that had he not been a believer, he would welcome any other zealot to indoctrinate himself with those very same beliefs. Application of the Golden Rule in this case might suggest that this zealot would be entitled to indoctrinate other people as he himself would welcome such indoctrinations. These problems are aptly summed up by some commentators in their conclusions, that one should not do unto others as one would like to be done by, as their tastes may not be the same.

The second problem concerns certain types of interests or desires that people might find objectionable based on other grounds. Imagine a career criminal who was asked by her criminal associates for help in committing robbery. Since the criminal herself would want to be helped were she in need of assistance during a robbery, she reasoned that following the Golden Rule would implore for her to assist her fellow criminals with respect to their endeavours at the present time. Imagine a recreational drug user who was approached by a curious, but inexperienced newcomer wanting to get high and asking for access to hard drugs, since the drug user would not want to be denied access to hard drugs had himself been curious and inexperienced, then by Golden Rule reasoning perhaps he should not deny this newcomer to such access. These types of problems can be summarized by the saying that there is no wrongdoing that cannot be justified, so long as the perpetrator is willing to partake for themselves.

These problems have vexed the minds of many thinkers, leading them to a variety of proposals in fixing these perceived flaws. Many such solutions either implicitly or explicitly invoke the concept of "rationality", almost always used as a filter of sorts to pre-evaluate the tastes or preferences of individual persons, and further sorts these tastes and preferences in accordance with a "rational" perspective, after which only the "rational" tastes or preferences will be admissible with respect to their applications by the Golden Rule. For example, one may argue that pursuing pleasures at the expense of necessities is irrational, therefore a street partier is not entitled to wake up a sleeping person; or that illegal acts are contrary to greater societal interests, and therefore assisting or partaking in criminal activities are inherently irrational.

While these attempts to "fix" the Golden Rule are laudable, we are of the opinion that most, if not all of these approaches fundamentally change the Golden Rule into something else. Instead of "do to others as you would have them do to you", some of these "fixes", if adopted and incorporated into the text of the Golden Rule, would essentially change its meaning into "do to others as you would rationally have them do to you", or sometimes even "do to others as a rational observer would have you do to them". Instead of changing the rule, perhaps one should think of some other ways in resolving its perceived flaws, and there could be a number of good reasons for taking this approach; an important reason in our view, is that the problem may not necessarily be with the Golden Rule per se, but rather with people's interpretations of it, or within the subconscious biases and preferences that is affecting their judgment; we must be open to the possibility that it may not be the rule, but people's erroneous interpretations, that is the fundamental problem here, and that they may need to take out the thorn stuck within their own eyes before beginning to search for a speck of dust that may or may not be found on something else.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
10,069
Interesting. I suppose another way of saying it would be to respect other people's wishes. (So long as they aren't criminal or harm others.)

It's all consent/choice isn't it? I suppose there's a kind of blueprint we try to use until we get to know someone's preferences. So- I imagine the majority of people probably wouldn't want to be woken up in the small hours by a loud party going on. That's why it's considered noise pollution and has laws to prohibit it in some countries. We do get a fair amount of 'clues' to go by as a society. If something is illegal, it's probably because the majority of people don't like that kind of behaviour.
 
lxci

lxci

Life lover
Sep 9, 2024
34

Talkin' about caesar
 
Last edited:
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
21,206
I'm living proof that the Golden Rule is completely irrelevant. If I were to treat others how I treat myself or even how I'd want to be treated then I'd be even more outwardly evil and would be causing even more destruction and terror. The difference is that I deserve all my pain and misery while other people usually don't.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
While many intuitively hold the Golden Rule as the guidance towards moral and ethical conducts of the highest possible standard, it has nevertheless been subjected to harsh criticisms from a variety of sources. The 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant, for instance, strongly rebukes the Golden Rule, and instead advocates for an alternative proposal of moral principles called the Categorical Imperatives. Those who search through various scholarly journals and articles today are more likely to find objections than support for the Golden Rule, as well as eager attempts by various commentators to prescribe their remedies to its perceived defects. Those who remain sceptical, or are critical of the Golden Rule will certainly find no shortages of intellectual company.

The golden rule applies when the "others" are like you, and thus want the same things you want.
This is not always the case.

Broadly speaking, there appears to be two kinds of criticisms we could discern from various sources. The first of which centres on the problem that we had alluded to in earlier discussions: the fact that people are generally different from one another, each with their own sets of likes and dislikes, interests and ideals, motives and desires; in other words, everyone has their own unique set of preferences.

Ah, I should have read further before commenting.

As was previously discussed, the Golden Rule when read at the surface level, appears to passively permit, if not actively instruct, that anyone who chooses to abide by its rulings should reflect their own tastes and preferences upon others, or to refrain from imposing upon others what they do not wish to have done on themselves: want to receive kindness? Then one should be kind to others; do not want to be insulted? Then one should not insult others. While this may appear to be a reasonable interpretation based on a plain textual reading of the rule alone, it is easy to see how such an interpretation would be highly impractical and undesirable under certain circumstances.

Imagine a person who enjoys loud street parties at night and wants to be woken up for any such occasions, since she would want others to wake herself up if she was sleeping through a party, then she might be justified in waking up her neighbours had she been amongst the party attendees, this appears to be a permissible course of conduct based on a simple interpretation of the Golden Rule alone. As another example, imagine a religious zealot who is absolutely convinced of his religious beliefs, who also adopts the view that had he not been a believer, he would welcome any other zealot to indoctrinate himself with those very same beliefs. Application of the Golden Rule in this case might suggest that this zealot would be entitled to indoctrinate other people as he himself would welcome such indoctrinations. These problems are aptly summed up by some commentators in their conclusions, that one should not do unto others as one would like to be done by, as their tastes may not be the same.

Agreed.

The second problem concerns certain types of interests or desires that people might find objectionable based on other grounds. Imagine a career criminal who was asked by her criminal associates for help in committing robbery. Since the criminal herself would want to be helped were she in need of assistance during a robbery, she reasoned that following the Golden Rule would implore for her to assist her fellow criminals with respect to their endeavours at the present time. Imagine a recreational drug user who was approached by a curious, but inexperienced newcomer wanting to get high and asking for access to hard drugs, since the drug user would not want to be denied access to hard drugs had himself been curious and inexperienced, then by Golden Rule reasoning perhaps he should not deny this newcomer to such access. These types of problems can be summarized by the saying that there is no wrongdoing that cannot be justified, so long as the perpetrator is willing to partake for themselves.

Agreed.

These problems have vexed the minds of many thinkers, leading them to a variety of proposals in fixing these perceived flaws. Many such solutions either implicitly or explicitly invoke the concept of "rationality", almost always used as a filter of sorts to pre-evaluate the tastes or preferences of individual persons, and further sorts these tastes and preferences in accordance with a "rational" perspective, after which only the "rational" tastes or preferences will be admissible with respect to their applications by the Golden Rule. For example, one may argue that pursuing pleasures at the expense of necessities is irrational, therefore a street partier is not entitled to wake up a sleeping person; or that illegal acts are contrary to greater societal interests, and therefore assisting or partaking in criminal activities are inherently irrational.

While these attempts to "fix" the Golden Rule are laudable, we are of the opinion that most, if not all of these approaches fundamentally change the Golden Rule into something else. Instead of "do to others as you would have them do to you", some of these "fixes", if adopted and incorporated into the text of the Golden Rule, would essentially change its meaning into "do to others as you would rationally have them do to you", or sometimes even "do to others as a rational observer would have you do to them". Instead of changing the rule, perhaps one should think of some other ways in resolving its perceived flaws, and there could be a number of good reasons for taking this approach; an important reason in our view, is that the problem may not necessarily be with the Golden Rule per se, but rather with people's interpretations of it, or within the subconscious biases and preferences that is affecting their judgment; we must be open to the possibility that it may not be the rule, but people's erroneous interpretations, that is the fundamental problem here, and that they may need to take out the thorn stuck within their own eyes before beginning to search for a speck of dust that may or may not be found on something else.

The golden rule is just a rule-of-thumb, to be overridden when more knowledge dictates that it would be harmful.