Help Plumbers?

[Deleted member 1465]

There are so many people on here, someone must be a plumber!

Are there any plumbers out there willing to give some advice?

 

[Epsilon0]

Sorry, not a plumber. But I know a great quote by Woody Allen:

Not only is there no God, but try finding a plumber on Sunday.

 

[Thereisnothing]

I'm not a plumber but just curious what the trouble is.......you could always Google it or look on YouTube, the amount of helpful videos on there is incredible. I have found DIY help and done myself, and I am a woman!

Sorry, not a plumber. But I know a great quote by Woody Allen:

Not only is there no God, but try finding a plumber on Sunday.

Another thing, why do plumbers charge so much?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I'm not a plumber but just curious what the trouble is.......you could always Google it or look on YouTube, the amount of helpful videos on there is incredible. I have found DIY help and done myself, and I am a woman!

Another thing, why do plumbers charge so much?

I've had five plumbers and all the help the internet has to offer!
I have banging coming from somewhere overnight with no water running/on and the heating off. There's a rush of water in the rising main, then a clunk/boom as it stops. Some sort of hydro-static pressure wave effect, but no idea what could be causing it as nothing is running to cause it! It shouldn't be possible.
My problems are always weird as, and no-one ever has any idea. Makes me wonder if I really AM delusional. But then there's an almighty BANG from the pipes.

 

[Thereisnothing]

I've had five plumbers and all the help the internet has to offer!
I have banging coming from somewhere overnight with no water running/on and the heating off. There's a rush of water in the rising main, then a clunk/boom as it stops. Some sort of hydro-static pressure wave effect, but no idea what could be causing it as nothing is running to cause it! It shouldn't be possible.
My problems are always weird as, and no-one ever has any idea. Makes me wonder if I really AM delusional. But then there's an almighty BANG from the pipes.

Blimey, this sounds like something which should be rectified forthwith. As say I know nothing about plumbing but do recall once on a DIY show some one had a lot of nasty banging in pipes and was some sort of very bad air lock throughout the system. Its incredible you've had 5 plumbers out, I don't know what is wrong with everything these days and I recall you are in UK like I am, it can be so hard to find good workmen. Surely one of them could have told you the problem and sorted it for you, that's bad. Are you not able to have any heat or hot water now then at all? A real bummer if not. I don't know what to suggest, but does sound like something which should be sorted as water can cause a lot of damage if anything 'goes'.

Its odd though, if happens still when nothing is running, although I know my parents heating system is like that makes a lot of noise when switched off and can hear it awhile through the pipes, but quietens/settles after awhile.....obviously yours different to this. You say your probs are always weird, sounds rather like my body and medical history! It could be spirit activity playing around with you........you never know.........seriously, wish could be more help to you.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Unfortunately, I have no way of demonstrating the problem on demand to a plumber. If you sit and listen, it doesn't happen! Personally, I think there's variable water pressure overnight (it should vary, but maybe too much) and its causing water hammer. I suspect a new stop cock or a pressure release valve might help. But what do I know? I want a professional to sort it, but they say it can't be as I've described and the water company has even said the pressure in the area is okay. I'll have to wait until it fails, it looks like. Meh. I could do without it tbh as it destroys what little sleep I get.

 

[Carina]

Thought... can you record it? like, put up a recorder (even on a computer so it has 'unlimited' space), then call a plumber, and say "HERE!" and play it for them?

 

[Thereisnothing]

Unfortunately, I have no way of demonstrating the problem on demand to a plumber. If you sit and listen, it doesn't happen! Personally, I think there's variable water pressure overnight (it should vary, but maybe too much) and its causing water hammer. I suspect a new stop cock or a pressure release valve might help. But what do I know? I want a professional to sort it, but they say it can't be as I've described and the water company has even said the pressure in the area is okay. I'll have to wait until it fails, it looks like. Meh. I could do without it tbh as it destroys what little sleep I get.

Always the way, when someone wants to hear or see whats happening, said thing stops.........I dare say the water company are covering their own arses as usual these days. I have very high water pressure here, its about 24 bar which is incredible for residential area/use, no wonder shower, taps etc go quickly, should be no more than about 6. Water company or Council are not instrumental about reducing the pressure in area, so its swings and roundabouts. Sympathy regards the sleep, I sleep very little and when do any tiny noise disturbs me so can fully understand why you'd wish this resolved for sleep reasons but of course for sorting it anyway. Sounds about right though 'wait till it fails' yup and then we come out then and clear up the mess, fools.
Reminds me the time I went to the Police as was suicidal, they told me they couldn't do anything until I'd done it, then they'd come and pick up the pieces/mess.........charming world we have. I have little faith in good old Britain though anymore, full stop.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Thought... can you record it? like, put up a recorder (even on a computer so it has 'unlimited' space), then call a plumber, and say "HERE!" and play it for them?

Nice try, good effort Already thought of that. Sometimes it doesn't happen for quite a while, then it doesn't stop. I've wandered round the house at night trying to find the source, but nothing, its always quiet when I do that. I've even gone outside in the cold hoping that its something banging in the wind. Nada. Basically, if I try and pin it down, it stops. Plus, its such an ephemeral sound, I doubt my phone or a recording device would pick it up against closer background noise (me turning in bed, breathing etc.) Its like chasing ghosts. That's why it makes me question my sanity, its entirely possible that I'm going nuts from lack of sleep. But then BANG! lol.
Also, when I moved in I had a new shower fitted. After that there was horrendous water hammer/air in the system/pressure problems. The plumber fitted a water hammer arrestor which quietened it down to its current state. So it has to be connected to that.

 

[Thereisnothing]

Nice try, good effort Already thought of that. Sometimes it doesn't happen for quite a while, then it doesn't stop. I've wandered round the house at night trying to find the source, but nothing, its always quiet when I do that. I've even gone outside in the cold hoping that its something banging in the wind. Nada. Basically, if I try and pin it down, it stops. Plus, its such an ephemeral sound, I doubt my phone or a recording device would pick it up against closer background noise (me turning in bed, breathing etc.) Its like chasing ghosts. That's why it makes me question my sanity, its entirely possible that I'm going nuts from lack of sleep. But then BANG! lol.
Also, when I moved in I had a new shower fitted. After that there was horrendous water hammer/air in the system/pressure problems. The plumber fitted a water hammer arrestor which quietened it down to its current state. So it has to be connected to that.

Ah so I was right about the spirit activity........like chasing ghosts

 

[Carina]

Nice try, good effort Already thought of that. Sometimes it doesn't happen for quite a while, then it doesn't stop. I've wandered round the house at night trying to find the source, but nothing, its always quiet when I do that. I've even gone outside in the cold hoping that its something banging in the wind. Nada. Basically, if I try and pin it down, it stops. Plus, its such an ephemeral sound, I doubt my phone or a recording device would pick it up against closer background noise (me turning in bed, breathing etc.) Its like chasing ghosts. That's why it makes me question my sanity, its entirely possible that I'm going nuts from lack of sleep. But then BANG! lol.
Also, when I moved in I had a new shower fitted. After that there was horrendous water hammer/air in the system/pressure problems. The plumber fitted a water hammer arrestor which quietened it down to its current state. So it has to be connected to that.

hmm... you literally do need like mics everywhere and a unlimited storage device with recording non-stop!

That is so aggravating, and I'm just reading it, not having to live through it!

 

[Deleted member 1465]

If my sister ever comes back here, I think I'm going to ask her to 'sleep' in that room and she can witness it, as she tends to just dismiss it as me being paranoid. I remember she did this when I told her I had to pee every half hour. So I PAID her to stay awake in shifts with my brother and witness it overnight. She couldn't believe it and wrote a letter to my GP saying "He's really not making it up, its really happening, I don't know how he can live with it." That's my life. Lots of stuff that I wouldn't believe myself if it wasn't happening to me. It's well down the rabbit hole.

hmm... you literally do need like mics everywhere and a unlimited storage device with recording non-stop!

That is so aggravating, and I'm just reading it, not having to live through it!

Aggravating is the word. i keep telling myself "No-one is out to get you, don't be silly, you're not being toyed with, it's just shit that happens." Then BANG.

 

[Deleted member 4993]

You could try turning the water pressure down at your incoming mains stopcock to see if this helps.
If so you could get a water pressure regulator fitted at the incoming stopcock.
its hard to determine the exact problem, but your having a shock arrestor fitted points to " high pressure " water hammer when appliances allow water through and then shut off.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

You could try turning the water pressure down at your incoming mains stopcock to see if this helps.
If so you could get a water pressure regulator fitted at the incoming stopcock.
its hard to determine the exact problem, but your having a shock arrestor fitted points to " high pressure " water hammer when appliances allow water through and then shut off.

Your reasoning follows mine. I've tried turning the water pressure both up and down to no effect. I agree, I think i need a PRV on the mains near the stopcock. I also had to have a back pressure switch and non-return valve fitted to the boiler as it was turning on when I ran the COLD water which was odd. The plumbers have all turned their nose up at the PRV idea b ut I think I might ask one to fit it anyway. Thanks.

 

[LegaliseIt!]

I'm not a plumber but just curious what the trouble is.......you could always Google it or look on YouTube, the amount of helpful videos on there is incredible. I have found DIY help and done myself, and I am a woman!

Another thing, why do plumbers charge so much?

Because they can!

 

[Thereisnothing]

Because they can!

Good answer!

 

[Deleted member 4993]

Boiler turning on when cold tap is run ( is usually due to trapped air causing a bounce effect with the shock of water ) it tricks the boiler into thinking the Hot tap has been ran, Usually due to a dead end left in the pipe run somewhere. Non return valve cures it.
My choice would be to address the problem at the incoming stopcock by fitting a pressure regulator which would mean a constant set pressure supply.

best of luck :-)

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Boiler turning on when cold tap is run ( is usually due to trapped air causing a bounce effect with the shock of water ) it tricks the boiler into thinking the Hot tap has been ran, Usually due to a dead end left in the pipe run somewhere. Non return valve cures it.
My choice would be to address the problem at the incoming stopcock by fitting a pressure regulator which would mean a constant set pressure supply.

best of luck :-)

Ahh thank you so much for this. It makes perfect sense to me. I'd also considered the possibility of a dead end somewhere too.
I will get in touch with a plumber with a view to fitting a PRV.
I suppose the ideal solution would be to find the redundant spur and get rid of it but that would mean ripping up floorboards etc.
Why can't the plumbers round here come up with what you've suggested?

 

[Deleted member 4993]

It's sometimes trial and error sadly to find the problem. Finding and removing the dead end could be costly as you say !!

The other option that could well cure your problem.
Is to turn off the cold supply at the mains stopcock, and then open / run all cold taps, flush toilet etc to empty the cold pipe run.
Then turn on the mains and work from the nearest tap / outlet back ( as water refills flows turn off ) round the house until the furthest outlet is turned off last.
This will clear the air from the pipe run " should do "

best wishes and take care.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

It's sometimes trial and error sadly to find the problem. Finding and removing the dead end could be costly as you say !!

The other option that could well cure your problem.
Is to turn off the cold supply at the mains stopcock, and then open / run all cold taps, flush toilet etc to empty the cold pipe run.
Then turn on the mains and work from the nearest tap / outlet back ( as water refills flows turn off ) round the house until the furthest outlet is turned off last.
This will clear the air from the pipe run " should do "

best wishes and take care.

hahahaa! I'm seriously laughing now. I suggested that to the plumber who put in the shower. it sounded logical. We tried it, but unfortunately it didn't help. Nice to know I'm thinking on the same lines though.

 

[Deleted member 4993]

hahahaa! I'm seriously laughing now. I suggested that to the plumber who put in the shower. it sounded logical. We tried it, but unfortunately it didn't help. Nice to know I'm thinking on the same lines though.

Its a difficult one as I always believe in trying to eliminate the problem with the non cost options first.
Turning the incoming mains pressure down should have shown results
Draining the pipe run usually cures rattle etc

Having a shock arrestor fitted and also a non return valve fitted = high pressure problems.

Ideally one of the plumbers should have tested your incoming mains pressure with a gauge to confirm, bearing in mind the pressure will spike higher at off peak times.

Its a choice of whether to bite the bullet and have a Pressure Regulator fitted.
Or your unlucky and you have a problem in your pipes, dead leg or tight angle joint somewhere which is difficult to find.

wish I could help more.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I've called the plumber and he's going to get hold of a PRV. I've also noted that I'm on a shared water main. It could be that when anyone else uses taps overnight in the area, my pressure fluctuates, as there is an intermittent running water sound in the rising main often followed by a clunk. My reasoning; hydrostatic shock can only be being caused by moving/stopping water, and since I'm not causing water to move in the pipes, someone else on the shared main must be.

That shouldn't cause a clunk, but maybe a redundant spur is causing a pressure bounce due to fluctuating pressure from the shared main. I can't fix the mains supply (too expensive to get the water company to put in a new one), finding the dead end will be a pain, so I'm hoping the PRV is a cheaper, easier option , at least to start with.

I'm the same, always on the car I always tried the cheapest option first, or waited till I actually broke down! And you have been a lot of help, much more than crap plumbers who say "well if you can't replicate it, I can't fix it." You have proofed my reasoning and given me the confidence to request that the plumber do something, even though I'm not sure if it will work. I'm hoping there's no big deal to fitting a pressure regulator, my rising main is in an awkward place with my desk right up against it.

 

[Thereisnothing]

Pleased to hear going to try a PRV, should help alot but prob wont fix it entirely. Where I am in summer when neighbours have their hoses on, my water drops alot. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you my friend and interested to know the outcome.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

...aannd now I have water hammer on the kitchen tap.
@Carina I tried recording the noise on my phone. Didn't register.

 

[Carina]

...aannd now I have water hammer on the kitchen tap.
@Carina I tried recording the noise on my phone. Didn't register.

That sucks.. and it's spreading! :( Maybe someone can find it now though?

 

[Thereisnothing]

...aannd now I have water hammer on the kitchen tap.
@Carina I tried recording the noise on my phone. Didn't register.

Oh Underscore you are greedy.......water hammer now also........................when is this going to be sorted for you, whens the PRV going to be fitted, do you know yet?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Dunno. Called him yesterday so we'll see. At least my Internet worked today though slower than it should be. I even got my brothers printer working. Sometimes I remember that I actually used to be quite good at stuff.

 

[Deleted member 4993]

I've called the plumber and he's going to get hold of a PRV. I've also noted that I'm on a shared water main. It could be that when anyone else uses taps overnight in the area, my pressure fluctuates, as there is an intermittent running water sound in the rising main often followed by a clunk. My reasoning; hydrostatic shock can only be being caused by moving/stopping water, and since I'm not causing water to move in the pipes, someone else on the shared main must be.

That shouldn't cause a clunk, but maybe a redundant spur is causing a pressure bounce due to fluctuating pressure from the shared main. I can't fix the mains supply (too expensive to get the water company to put in a new one), finding the dead end will be a pain, so I'm hoping the PRV is a cheaper, easier option , at least to start with.

I'm the same, always on the car I always tried the cheapest option first, or waited till I actually broke down! And you have been a lot of help, much more than crap plumbers who say "well if you can't replicate it, I can't fix it." You have proofed my reasoning and given me the confidence to request that the plumber do something, even though I'm not sure if it will work. I'm hoping there's no big deal to fitting a pressure regulator, my rising main is in an awkward place with my desk right up against it.

I did wonder if perhaps you had a shared water main but without putting a list of questions went with your input :-)
A PRV is the obvious solution and should work tbh, it's what I would have recommended for a customer.
It's an easy job to do unless the main stopcock and pipe are situated in a very tight and confined space, even then it just takes a while longer.
I am rarely on here so sorry for delay in replying, good luck and take care.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I am rarely on here so sorry for delay in replying, good luck and take care.

No probs, you have been an invaluable source of advice. My thanks.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

This just goes on and on. The plumber failed to source a PRV. He says you can't get one for a mains water supply, only hot water supply. He's going to pop round and adjust the WH arrestor, which is near the boiler. He says the only other way is to pay the water company to fit a new, exclusive mains supply.

I'm not entirely convinced.