Question for atheists

[wildflowers1996]

How can I respond to this argument from my theist friend?

He says the authors of the New Testament came up with a "consistent worldview" and "what motivation would they have to collaborate and make up a lie?"

He says Jesus' followers died for their beliefs which shows they must have really believed that Jesus was the Son of God

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Plenty of people have died because they believed that their cult leaders were true prophets of God. People being willing to die for someone doesn't prove anything outside their having blind loyalty towards them and their faith. When people invest a lot of time and energy, and sometimes even money, into something they are unlikely to just stop believing it, even when evidence shows that it was bullshit the whole time. Basically, the sunken cost fallacy. We already see this with many modern-day cults. There are still people today who blindly follow the teachings of Ryuho Okawa, the former leader of the Happy Science cult, despite him contradicting himself on many occasions. Does that mean that Ryuho was telling the truth the whole time?

 

[ThisIsMe1357]

But that is the problem...they really believed something, which means they did not have to have any motivation to make up a lie, and yet the book does not have to be literally true at the same time.

Plenty of books were written at their respective time in history with the knowledge about the world of those times. This is why every book is a product of its time. I am pretty sure there are plenty of books about medicine from history which contain incorrect information, even though we only know that now as society and knowledge progressed over decades and centuries. I doubt that the people writing those books had any intention to lie, either. It is just that they wrote something to the best of their abilities given the times they lived in and given their knowledge and expertise.

The New Testament writers' "consistent worldview" was just a strong belief of their time in history. That in itself does not guarantee for it to be true.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I imagine the people that wrote the holy scriptures- unless they claimed they were God themselves were already indoctrinated in that religion. Sure- it was their world view. Would it have still been their world view if they had grown up in Ancient Egypt? Surely not. In that case, their world view would have been of many Egyptian Gods.

Terrorists die believing they are doing the good work of their God. Does that make them right? In which case- who is right? Most Gods won't tolerate the presence of other Gods. So- someone has to be right and everyone else is worshipping the wrong one.

 

[Ironborn]

The claim is the apostles died as martyrs never rejecting their belief in Christ.
Theists like to argue why would they undergo torture and death for something that is false.
The key word is "belief" they believed the resurrection to be true but nobody alive today can truly know what they saw.
Belief does not equal truth.
Just look at flat earthers, their belief is not truth.
Look at magicians today, they can pull off spectacular illusions but we know they are just that, illusions, sleight of hand.
The apostles who were tortured simply witnessed it and believed they saw a miracle, I reckon if they had interrogated those who were active in the "resurrection" we may have gotten some different answers as they would have known it was fake and would have most likely broken under questioning.

 

[BoulderSoWhat]

"Consistent worldview" is a bit vague, that would need some elaboration on what exactly is meant by that. Humans don't need to be intentionally knowingly lying in order to believe or spread misinformation.

Whether a worldview is "consistent" or not, depending on the definition, can then be applied as a measure to all other beliefs and systems. If your friend also knows that all other writings regarding other gods and goddesses were all intentionally motivated lies, well here, they have their work cut out for them to make their case. We eagerly await their much anticipated thesis on the matter:

Godchecker.com - Your Guide To The Gods

The legendary mythology encyclopedia, poking gods with a stick since 1999! Meet weird and wonderful gods from around the world with Godchecker's amazing Holy Database of All Known Gods

www.godchecker.com

 

[BoulderSoWhat]

Oh also, noting the title of this thread, this question isn't exclusively for atheists. Anybody who has a belief system that isn't Christianity can weigh in on this question.

A stupid nitpick I know lol, but I still had to mention it.

Best!