Discussion Regarding The moral Argument against suicide

[GuppyBoyo]

Suicide is often treated not just as a personal choice but as an affront, as if it is something done to others rather than for oneself. But when a person has made no commitment—such as parenthood or voluntary romance—that binds them to another, what rightful claim does anyone have over their decision to leave? And if no such claim exists, why is their death still taken as a personal injury?

 

[Moniker]

I think any argument that claims suicide is wrong spits in the face of bodily autonomy. No one who thinks a person's life should be owned by someone else should be lecturing others on morality.

 

[avalonisburning]

It's taken as a personal injury, because suicide confronts people with their own mortality, and it brings up all of those fears and neuroses that they usually keep buried somewhere deep within themselves, about existence and nonexistence, the nature of the universe, the afterlife, how much control they really have, etc. That's all it is at the end of the day. A lot of suicide prevention isn't even really about the suicidal. It's about the personal discomfort of the people around them.

 

[GuppyBoyo]

My answer to this question is that it is easier for the people doing it to rationalize the subjugation of others if they delude themselves into believing that it is a sort of self defense

 

[MercenariesofMidgar]

This is a very interesting discussion-- most of the big world religions are anti-suicide, (Islam has specific lines of text that go against suicide, Suicide in Buddhism brings heavy negative karma, Suicide of Christianity is still murder ((and destroying one of Gods creations)) and since you are dead, you cannot repent for your sin of self-murder) and that bleeds into the beliefs of the people even when the population still grows atheistic

I'd recommend checking out this page by standford -- https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/#AncClaVieSui, Of course compared to most other people, the users on here would probably see Suicide has a right... whereas the popular opinion would be that it's immoral, selfish, and a weak thing to do, to escape the hardship of life...

The bottom line is that death hurts, people grieve, and considering suicide is seen mainly as preventable, people would rather urge you to live while you suffer than try to escape. People don't have a clear reasoning on why they oppose suicide because it's an uncomfortable situation and most people don't have to face the reality of suicide. From the perspective of the depressed, it can be seen as freedom. From the perspective of the living, it is a tragedy that can change your life.

Of course there a millions of philosophical arguments for and against suicide, but to me a lot of it is "BE A COG IN THE MACHINE!!!1!"

Like...
"Hobbes and Locke reject the right of individuals to take their own life. Hobbes claims in his Leviathan that natural law forbids every man "to do, that which is destructive of his life, or take away the means of preserving the same." Breaking this natural law is irrational and immoral. Hobbes also states that it is intuitively rational for men to want felicity and to fear death most. . "

Like okay, what determines natural law? In fact, I'd imagine suicide is a lot more "natural" than shit like guns and amazon... go live the cave man life and see how fast you could rebuild Prime Day.

Anyways, the only real argument against suicide to me is that if you have the opportunity to fix your life, or otherwise give yourself the chance to live a happy life, then you should atleast try. It's the end of everything, no more chances, no more opportunities, suicide is you clocking out, it's you quitting the game. So... who knows. Maybe getting medication, going to therapy, telling everything to trusted confidants or selling everything and moving away somewhere can really save your life and you'll feel stupid for considering it in the first place. You could say we're all lost in the fog, deep in the woods, nearly pitch black. Off the path, you don't know if the trail back to safety is right infront of you, or a 30 minute walk northwest... Maybe you could make it out, maybe not... but most of us here wouldn't be if we had the care and compassion most people seem to give only after death.

 

[Sutter]

Unique.

Pushing the edge of the fire in, just burning it to white ash.

Great responses already. Fear of an unknown for the ones arguing for life. The empathy that attaches to possibilities not owned. The fallacy or truth in their own eyes on what could be influenced in this life by pushing that ideology away.

There is the presence of an animal. Noble thoughts born out where a life is "saved". Happens with each day. Bumps a persons reward and given a sense that the suicidal have given all personal sovereignty up they should be cared for as any invalid. Perhaps a life logic trap.

Regardless of imposed influences and opinions. Is that a moon still rises day or night, seen or not. Many will step to the sinking footing in soft mud pushing, the water calm slight ripples. Others will wander to stones and path back to soft but firmer needle heavy trails.

The rub is those with heavy clouds being dragged a short distance away to broken to crawl back and soaked with a putrid distaste of the slobbering savior that hovers over them. Harsh but walking in another's wake is a fast way to find an authentic state of mind.

Guppy's though their in that dark still pond. Moving deeper or the shallows. Not beholding, just waiting and roaming finding the shadows or an afternoons light. Found where they are unique creatures.

 

[Fall_Apart]

There is a very simple explanation to your question, and it is called "Stigma". Throughout the centuries all religions have brainwashed people, and under the threat of hell and similar bullshit, they have managed to manipulate the concept of life at any cost, even if this involves unnecessary suffering. This has caused one of the most powerful stigmas, which still manages to condition people today, when dealing with the subject of suicide.

 

[brokeandbroken]

Suicide is often treated not just as a personal choice but as an affront, as if it is something done to others rather than for oneself. But when a person has made no commitment—such as parenthood or voluntary romance—that binds them to another, what rightful claim does anyone have over their decision to leave? And if no such claim exists, why is their death still taken as a personal injury?

I think when people see it as an affront it lacks nuance. Not every suicide is the same. There seems to be this notion it is even amongst people who theoretically know the topic. But suicide just isn't a cookie cutter thing. Is there some suicides that are done to other people. Yeah maybe. But there is also ones that aren't.