Right-wingers can you explain me who is exactly exploiting who?

[noname223]

I am a left-winger but I have asked me the following question.

I always wondered about this topic. In the EU parliament some right-wing parties work together. Though concerning the content of programms they are sometimes very contradicting. Moreover many right-wing parties sympathize with each other even outside of the EU.
I will give you some examples of what I mean.

My dad votes for the AfD. The Alternative for Germany. It is the right-wing populist party in Germany. And in some sense he represents one of their average voters. He says Germany gets exploited from other countries. For example the South European countries would exploit Germany. He says the people there were lazy, had no work ethics, would get higher pensions for less work etc. I personally disagree with that a lot. But it is his position.
Other right-wingers like the Reichsbürger also sympathize a lot with the AfD. They say Germany was no free country. The allies would still rule in Germany. Germany was a puppet of the USA.

But then comes Trump. Trump said the US gets ripped off from other countries. He emphasized Germany would belong to these countries. Inter alia because they did not reach the 2% goal of the NATO. Many people from the AfD sympathized with Trump. But this seems for me to be contradicting. Trump says the US gets exploited by Germany but many of the AfD say Germany was a puppet of the USA. How can these people like each other?

This scheme applies almost to all right-wing popullists. Meloni from Italy hates Germany. They say Italy gets ripped off from Germany. And as I said in Germany the AfD voters say we Germans were the idiots who would transfer these lazy Italians billions of euros for nothing in exchange.

I could go on with examples. Like Polands right-wing parties demand trillions of euros due to WW2 from Germany. Even the leftwingers say that this is insane. It should be obvious the AfD voters are pretty angry about such demands.

I have the feeling all they do is to pass the buck to someone else. Every right-wing party paints a different evil enemy. But how can these parties even cooperate in some way of form when they despise each others countries and people? Furthermore when we look for example at their economic policies they often have diametrical notions what should be done.

 

[Julgran]

In the EU parliament some right-wing parties work together. Though concerning the content of programms they are sometimes very contradicting.

Sharing basic ideas about reality doesn't necessarily mean that all right-wing parties agree about everyting - just as not all left-wing parties always agree with each other.

Moreover many right-wing parties sympathize with each other even outside of the EU.

Right-wing parties view themselves as being the underdogs, in favor of left-wing parties, since more people tend to vote left-wing, which means that right-wing parties may feel a need to stretch out their hand across the whole world in order to be heard.

Trump said the US gets ripped off from other countries. He emphasized Germany would belong to these countries. Inter alia because they did not reach the 2% goal of the NATO. Many people from the AfD sympathized with Trump. But this seems for me to be contradicting. Trump says the US gets exploited by Germany but many of the AfD say Germany was a puppet of the USA. How can these people like each other?

From what I know, Trump felt like the rest of the NATO countries were, basically, freeloaders that didn't contribute enough to the joint NATO fund.

This scheme applies almost to all right-wing popullists. Meloni from Italy hates Germany. They say Italy gets ripped off from Germany.

Many countries don't like Germany or even the other central European countries, since those central European countries represent the overarching European Union and the International Mafia... excuse me... the International Monetary Fund, since that organization robs countries blind. Look at Greece, for example.

I could go on with examples. Like Polands right-wing parties demand trillions of euros due to WW2 from Germany. Even the leftwingers say that this is insane. It should be obvious the AfD voters are pretty angry about such demands.

This Poland/Germany situation is probably a result of the current political climate and situation, with war, and food, energy and supply shortages. It's just stupid people trying not to look stupid while being stupid in order to get some money, so that their people can have a chance at not freezing or starving to death this coming winter.

 

[Chinaski]

Right-wing parties view themselves as being the underdogs, in favor of left-wing parties, since more people tend to vote left-wing, which means that right-wing parties may feel a need to stretch out their hand across the whole world in order to be heard.

This is certainly an accurate view imo, the fact that democratically elected socialist governments can be counted on one hand and capitalism has a long-established global hegemony, it's the left who hold ultimate power and the right who are the oppressed underdogs.

 

[noname223]

Sharing basic ideas about reality doesn't necessarily mean that all right-wing parties agree about everyting - just as not all left-wing parties agreement parties always agree with each other.



Right-wing parties view themselves as being the underdogs, in favor of left-wing parties, since more people tend to vote left-wing, which means that right-wing parties may feel a need to stretch out their hand across the whole world in order to be heard.



From what I know, Trump felt like the rest of the NATO were, basically, freeloaders that didn't contribute enough to the joint NATO fund.



Many countries don't like Germany or even the other central European countries, since those central European countries represent the overarching European Union and the International Mafia... excuse me... the International Monetary Fund, since that organization robs countries blind. Look at Greece, for example.



This Polans/Germany situation is probably a result of the current political climate and situation, with war, and food, energy and supply shortages. It's just stupid people trying not to look stupid while being stupid.

I get they cannot agree on everything. But this logic is flawed. Some of them must be wrong. Because when we say Germany gets exploited by South Europe, Italy or Spain must be wrong when they say Germany benefits the most from the current system.

As I said it is like a game to pass the buck to someone else. There must be mistake in the way how they portray the world. Because in every country they portray themselves as the victims of exploitation of different other countries. The world is more complicated than such a simple truth.

Concerning the European Union I think most right-wing parties want to maximize their own share of profits and minimize the monetary contributions. So in some sense all of them have the intention to become free-riders. I have the feeling their take on the EU is rather opportunistic. Meloni was more moderate because she knows she needs money from the EU of the covid fund.
The AfD in Germany changed their stance on the EU when they realized the voters don't like to exit the EU. The voters find that too extreme.

I think their logic is when we care about ourselves we will have the most benefits. Though this excludes that in a globailzed world we profit from cooperation. I think in some sense I agree that globalization led to huge problems. And this is probably one reason why they have success in many countries. But in my opinion the problems rather increase when the countries all divide again into singular states without alliances. For me the problem is rather the way globalisation was implemented and not globalisation in itself was the problem.

 

[Julgran]

Tois is certainly an accurate view imo, the fact that democratically elected socialist governments can be counted on one hand and capitalism has a long-established global hegemony, it's the left who hold ultimate power and the right who are the oppressed underdogs.

Are you seeing a problem with the way people tend to vote, or what's your point...? I do believe that the left-wing would or will do the same thing if or when they become the underdog, and I don't believe that it's anything morally wrong with this kind of approach.

I get they cannot agree on everything. But this logic is flawed. Some of them must be wrong. Because when we say Germany gets exploited by South Europe, Italy or Spain must be wrong when they say Germany benefits the most from the current system.

As I said it is like a game to pass the buck to someone else. There must be mistake in the way how they portray the world. Because in every country they portray themselves as the victims of exploitation of different other countries. The world is more complicated than such a simple truth.

You will need to provide more context in order to have a fair discussion about those countries. However, I can see how Germany feels exploited by southern Europe, since southern Europe was let in, despite their inability to live up to the European Union's expections. In my view, that was the European Union's plan all along. On the other hand - as I exlained - the southern European countries may feel exploited by the central European countries, since they are used as economic pawns by the same Eurocrats.

Concerning the European Union I think most right-wing parties want to maximize their own share of profits and minimize the monetary contributions. So in some sense all of them have the intention to become free-riders. I have the feeling their take on the EU is rather opportunistic. Meloni was more moderate because she knows she needs money from the EU of the covid fund.

Yes, profits is a central tenet of anything right-wing, really. It's mostly about money, or the freedom of each individual to retain or regain their own freedom from oppression. As I see it, it doesn't make any sense for a right-wing party to be willing to be part of a project such as the European Union.

The AfD in Germany changed their stance on the EU when they realizde the voters don't like to exit the EU. The voters find that too extreme.

Some people are afraid of change, which may explain why they are reluctant to leave the European Union.

We have a popular, populist, right-wing party here in Sweden called the Sweden Democrats, as well, and their stance regarding the European Union is that they wish to inlfuence the European Union form within, instead of fighting them from without. As you see, there can be various reasons to stay inside the European Union.

I think their logic is when we care about ourselves we will have the most benefits. Though this excludes that in a globailzed world we profit from cooperation. I think in some sense I agree that globalization led to huge problems. And this is probably one reason why they have success in many countries. But in my opinion the problems rather increase when the countries all divide again into singular states without alliances. For me the problem is rather the way globalisation was implemented and not globalisation in itself was the problem.

This is true. If we take right-wing politics to its extreme, we can say that they don't want an overarching federation like the European Union, and there's no point in having such a union as long as trade can be conducted without it - which is a fact, since Switzerland and Norway, among others, wouldn't be able to sustain themselves if that was't the case.

 

[Bouts of depression]

I am no reliable source. I do not live over there.
But things I've seen, and I do look around at many different view points, most of whom I disagree with because all politics is bullshit attempts to control other people.

Germany is no puppet state. That makes no sense. We built back and let you guys go at it.

Germany is the workhorse of the EU in terms of profitability.
And the EU as a whole is the stipend for many small nations.
I also have nothing to say about that other than observation of how the EU's money is spent.
As for Trump, Hes an asshole. Terrible person. I loathe him. But he's not wrong. America is the world's police force and we pay through the nose for it.
Our military spending is too high for what is required, yes. But what is required is far far too much. We don't have the ability to keep up with how scarce money is in the world now a days. Almost as if people aren't investing because there is no actual growth and profitability. Every market is being strangled in some way by all of the super-power governments. Not china. Not russia. Not everything south of the US.

It is entirely unsustainable in its current form with how the world is shaping itself.
Barriers to entry in every market everywhere. Forcing workers to not be able to work. Removing self sustainability in the name of going green, when all that is actually happening is shifting the pollution sources elsewhere.


Theres a whole lot of dumb going on in the world today. All of the "super powers" are in terrible shape.
It makes me worried that some of the less terribly off will take advantage and procure resources.

A joint Russia China push is terrifying.

America might win. The EU won't. No military really. Not on that scale. Shared land borders, no armed populace leaves the door wide open. Attack comes to america and even if an attacker carpet bombs their entry to country, every inch will be covered in militia. It would take millions and millions of deaths. upward of 100 million at least, to have a chance at conquering america.
So then nukes become the option. And the moment a nuclear device is used, the world ends. At least as we know it. Humanity will survive. But the nice cushy world we used to have wont come back for a very long long time.

Shits scary. Its all about pushing. Thats what politics is. Push people to do what you want. Then the other side pushes for what they want. Then they fight over it. logistically, with the US bombing NS2 (we all know we did it, or at least supported it), or through denying open trade, forcing the "enemy" economy to suffer from reduced income. So they push back. Encourage growth at home by reducing other imports.

Prolonging the proxy war in ukraine is just escalating things. Rational ideas about negotiating to stop the war are thrown out by war-hawks.

Fucking babies and things they perceive as "theirs".

I hate politics. Everyone leave everyone alone. Have courts exist to ensure fairness. Local governments to secure contracts that can be opted into for emergency and necessary services. Fire comes to mind.

its all people in power wanting more of it. If psychopaths willing to do this all over the world stay in power, I see nothing good.
Maybe thats the major depressive disorder talking.

 

[Chinaski]

Are you seeing a problem with the way people tend to vote, or what's your point...? I do believe that the left-wing would or will do the same thing if or when they become the underdog, and I don't believe that it's anything morally wrong with this kind of approach.

I'm saying it's quite clear from the small number of democratically elected governments who govern from the left that people tend to not vote left, and anyone suggesting those on the political right are some kind of "underdog" are usually just basing this on their own experience of having the piss taken out of them for spouting reactionary paranoia on twitter or whatever

 

[Julgran]

I'm saying it's quite clear from the small number of democratically elected governments who govern from the left that people tend to not vote left, and anyone suggesting those on the political right are some kind of "underdog" are usually just basing this on their own experience of having the piss taken out of them for spouting reactionary paranoia on twitter or whatever

I'm not sure that you understand what I meant.

What I meant is that voting left-wing seems to be the "default" in today's society, which leaves the right-wingers with more to accomplish, since they have more to prove to their constituents than the left-wing politicians, since the left-wing sphere represents the point of view that "everything will be alright eventually if everyone just votes left-wing, and ignores all the corruption going on".

 

[freedompass]

This is certainly an accurate view imo, the fact that democratically elected socialist governments can be counted on one hand and capitalism has a long-established global hegemony, it's the left who hold ultimate power and the right who are the oppressed underdogs.

I was gonna say! We've had a right wing govt here in the UK since forever, wish they were the underdogs!

 

[Chinaski]

I was gonna say! We've had a right wing govt here in the UK since forever, wish they were the underdogs!

Jeremy Corbyn was given such an easy ride and his politics were clearly the default position of the majority of people in the UK, it was amazing to me that the marginalised underdog Boris Johnson won the 2019 general election for the rank outsiders 'The Conservative Party', imagine how surprised l was to discover this was not an isolated incident as decades of international socialist rule was toppled by triumphant underdogs the world over.

 

[freedompass]

Jeremy Corbyn was given such an easy ride and his politics were clearly the default position of the majority of people in the UK, it was amazing to me that the marginalised underdog Boris Johnson won the 2019 general election for the rank outsiders 'The Conservative Party', imagine how surprised l was to discover this was not an isolated incident as decades of international socialist rule was toppled by triumphant underdogs the world over.

You're hilarious 'the rank outsiders'

 

[October112021]

Hahaha, exactly. The conservatives everywhere absolutely lick the boot of the capitalist establishment; if Jeff Bezos were to appear before them all their contempt for homosexuality would go out the window as they deep throated his member. But they are the outsiders!

 

[noname223]

Hahaha, exactly. The conservatives everywhere absolutely lick the boot of the capitalist establishment; if Jeff Bezos were to appear before them all their contempt for homosexuality would go out the window as they deep throated his member. But they are the outsiders!

Sorry but this is even a little bit too insulting even for the politics sub-forum maybe you should edit the post and make it less insulting.

 

[October112021]

.

Sorry but this is even a little bit too insulting even for the politics sub-forum maybe you should edit the post and make it less insulting

Sorry, I'm not into political correctness.

 

[Unhirable]

A group of people who control the world but cannot be named.

That is who is exploiting the world.

 

[October112021]

A group of people who control the world but cannot be named.

That is who is exploiting the world.

You mean capitalists.

 

[whatevs]

Hahaha, exactly. The conservatives everywhere absolutely lick the boot of the capitalist establishment; if Jeff Bezos were to appear before them all their contempt for homosexuality would go out the window as they deep throated his member. But they are the outsiders!

Indeed. Bezos is daddy. A muscled up Jewish, bald billionaire with asymmetrically placed eyes, are you kidding me? All my right-wing homophobia would evaporate like a bad dream and I would succ.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

I am a left-winger but I have asked me the following question.

I always wondered about this topic. In the EU parliament some right-wing parties work together. Though concerning the content of programms they are sometimes very contradicting. Moreover many right-wing parties sympathize with each other even outside of the EU.
I will give you some examples of what I mean.

My dad votes for the AfD. The Alternative for Germany. It is the right-wing populist party in Germany. And in some sense he represents one of their average voters. He says Germany gets exploited from other countries. For example the South European countries would exploit Germany. He says the people there were lazy, had no work ethics, would get higher pensions for less work etc. I personally disagree with that a lot. But it is his position.
Other right-wingers like the Reichsbürger also sympathize a lot with the AfD. They say Germany was no free country. The allies would still rule in Germany. Germany was a puppet of the USA.

But then comes Trump. Trump said the US gets ripped off from other countries. He emphasized Germany would belong to these countries. Inter alia because they did not reach the 2% goal of the NATO. Many people from the AfD sympathized with Trump. But this seems for me to be contradicting. Trump says the US gets exploited by Germany but many of the AfD say Germany was a puppet of the USA. How can these people like each other?

This scheme applies almost to all right-wing popullists. Meloni from Italy hates Germany. They say Italy gets ripped off from Germany. And as I said in Germany the AfD voters say we Germans were the idiots who would transfer these lazy Italians billions of euros for nothing in exchange.

I could go on with examples. Like Polands right-wing parties demand trillions of euros due to WW2 from Germany. Even the leftwingers say that this is insane. It should be obvious the AfD voters are pretty angry about such demands.

I have the feeling all they do is to pass the buck to someone else. Every right-wing party paints a different evil enemy. But how can these parties even cooperate in some way of form when they despise each others countries and people? Furthermore when we look for example at their economic policies they often have diametrical notions what should be done.

There's how this endless cycle of bullshit works in a nutshell.

 

[noname223]

I would like to get more replies to this thread because it is a question I ask myself frequently when I read about the different right-wing parties all over the world and how fragmented their narratives are.

 

[real person]

typical anti immigration rhetoric. the west has benefited from colonialism/imperialism for hundreds of years